only time I ever charge a fee is patterns that have a cd i.e. dreamcloth and truegold. other then that idc if you tip or not but considering i took the time to level the prof in the first place it's much appreciated
"How easily the mind can be turned to hate from a place of fear - an instinctive, natural, protective response. Instead of focusing on the things that unite us, we focus on what divides us." - Thrall
We don't know your realm, faction, region. Realm culture in general varies quite a bit.
From my experience on a handful of realms and factions I'd conclude tipping is a courtesy. If you want to avoid trouble, ask for a fee, else tip what others usually do. The reason you should tip is someone spends time and energy (= money) to work for you, and together with a thank you they'd like to receive something back from it. Since they're not your friends or guildies (they are stranger) it makes sense you give them gold. Because friends and guildies would help you as well, and will do so later on, you don't expect gold from them.
IRL it depends on your jurisdiction whether it is required, or not. For example, I remember a vacation where restaurant price already was including a 12,5% tip. I am not going to tip further if it states that. If I were treated badly I'd also ask for that tip to be removed. Thing is, the only place where I have been treated bad in restaurants is in my own country. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to go out having a dinner in my country.
As a general note the English Wikipedia version has a very good article about tipping (quality in other languages may vary), explaining also how it works in the various world-wide jurisdictions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_%28gratuity%29 it doesn't contain information about WoW though. There are quite some interesting differences world-wide. For example, in Germany tipping is exempt from taxation.
Back to WoW, when the Dalaran portals were removed I earned much more on my mage alt asking tips welcome (suggestive) than demanding a fee. Of course I sometimes had people free riding, but even that calculated in the costs of my time I was making a nice profit and being a useful service. It was also fun to do this unique experiment, tho I realize it depends on realm culture, competition, and luck. For example, my enthusiasm in /g chat got other people to log their mage alts.
In your case it'd been easier to simply give the fellow 10g (or just buy the item from the AH anyway) than this whole moral crusade trying to teach a random fellow how tipping works. If he does not understand tipping is recommended but not mandatory, and if he starts to flame his customer he is clearly not a social, intelligent human being. If he so much insists on being tipped he should've stated a fee instead. If you value time/money (you stated you hated to waste various minutes trying to find a crafter) your best bet would've been to tip him 10g, and then add him on ignore for being rude/unreasonable. Or maybe be happy you at least found someone and tip him 50g because he provides a rare service. In other words, you could've acted better here despite his lack of manners. Just because someone is rude to you, does not mean you need to lower yourself to their level. Especially not if you are trying to educate someone; someone who is angry and who you make more angry is not going to cooperate or learn whereas if you stay calm and courteous he may eventually realize he is in the wrong (even though he may not admit it).
I believe most of these discussions would get solved if Blizzard implemented a few smart dictionary pop-ups inside the game. Most people playing on English realms are not in fact native speakers, at least for the European part.
Many people asking for a tip upon a craft are in fact expecting a fee to be paid. Especially the ones listing an actual amount. Now you could argue semantics, or you could just not be rude and toss the person that helped you out that little gold that they ask. It is not unreasonable to expect to be paid for a service, and it's not like you'd even notice that amount. Prices for crafts used to be comparatively much higher, and still it was no problem for most of the players. Crafters who regularly helped people out used to actually be respected and wanted on their realms. Nowadays people start cussing at you for asking measly 20g to hook them up.
If your only reason to withhold payment is because someone used the word "tip" instead of "fee", you may not have that great of an argument to begin with.
PLEASE DON'T PM ME WITH REQUESTS! (OR RISK INCINERATION, RANDOM AFFLICTION, OCCASIONAL SACRIFICE)
He had every right to bitch you out. I probably would have called you names too. But he can't keep your helm. He'll get a warning and you'll get the item from the GM if you report it. (No, he's not going to be "banned" for it).
When I craft something I will put it up in the trade window and then not hit trade. Usually the customer gets the hint. If they still haven't put up a tip after about 30 seconds, I'll trade it and start the whispering tirade about tipping.
I waste my time coming to craft something for you, you better tip me. If you don't, you can be certain I'll say something to you about it.
It's like when you go out to eat. It's just polite to tip, and failing to do so is seen as cheap and rude.
Thank you Eis for the INCREDIBLE sig!
If you really want a tip then the following tends to work 90% of the time.
See some one asking for X you can make
Whisper them "I would gladly make it for you where are you so I can craft it"
Make the item
Ask if there is anything else you could do for them
Put it in trade
90% of the time I get a very nice tip when I use the above... a little courtesy and politeness goes a long way when you are trying to "sell" your services for a tip!
As for the waiter/waitress comment. It's different everywhere but where I'm from they are paid under minimum wage as it is assumed that they will make up the difference in tips. AS well they are not Taxed on there tips they are taxed a % off there sales so when you leave no tip they pay takes on a tip they never got. 8% is the minimum a waiter waitress can declare here so lets say they serve 1 big table and they walk out and go "F that not tiping" that waiter waitress gets paid under minimum wadge, gets taxed 8% of the sale even if they didn't get tipped, and then probably has to dish out 1% cash of the sale to the bussboys and bartender...effectively in this case the waiter waitress is paying to have served you.
but hey ignorance is bliss "they make tips and minimum wadge F that they make good $$" sigh!
Last edited by Odina; 2012-05-03 at 01:48 PM.
makeing greens i dont expect nothing or makeing bags i dont expect nothing cutting/crafting shitty gems....if they ahve me make like 1k of something >.> it kinda annoys me when people HUNT me down on my mage for a port then dont tip...its like you spent 20 min looking for a port to dal...you coulda flown there in stead you just steal the portan and not even say THANKS >.>
Both of you are wrong or not wrong.... this is just something you want to discuss upfront. Don't assume things are for free. If you ask someone to do a thingalso ask them whether they want to be paid and how much, in case they want payment. if they say they don't want payment, then you can offer a tip for the troubles. that's how easy it is.
I agree that the BS in this case could have acted a lot more sensible, but still he didn't ask for it, he insulted you of being a cheap prick... which is also lousy, but in some way he has a point, it seems cheap to have somebody make an effort for you and not paying some sort of tribute for it. then again it's anyone's prerogative to tip or not... Like I said, make it clear before you enter trade and avoid issues or confusion.... so it not just 'caveat emptor' but also 'caveat venditor'...
Kind a like yours "before I could cancel my trade n' post a tip", before I realized it was your helm I was deleting.., now your the one ending up wasting time having to ticket a lost helm, no name slurring or anything since that would probably land me a time-ban minimum.
Last edited by Banzhe; 2012-05-03 at 02:07 PM.
I never demand tips for just crafting something if you deliver the mats but if i have to move to you because your hearth is on cd or whatever i expect to get at least a few gold coins for coming to you. On my mage i used to make portals for a rune so people wouldn't have to tip but they kept on giving me Gold for it so i just make em the portals nad by like 5 runes or so. I welcome tips but i don't loose my shit if i don't get anything which is extremly rare
I think that is ok for him to expect a tip, but unless he says from the start that he's going to charge you he's on no place to complain about it. In my case I just say that tips are appreciated and when I craft something just press the trade button, after that its up to the person to place some gold or not.
Tipping is not required, but its a nice gesture. This is why I do not provide any services to anyone with my professions. Their tips are not worth my effort to work my muscles to click.
dunno it reads like you made up most of the story or were far more aggressive / negative that you said you were ...
hard to judge if you're not being honest
in general I see the problem with 'tip' being a misnomer in most cases, but then again most people's English skills (on US servers) are lacking anyways so it's not that big of an issue.
regardless if you demand a tip / fee (call it whatever) you have to say so before you craft (that's common sense ...).
in contract law there is a thing called "trade usage" among business people, but even that does not apply to private persons purchasing for their own use. (cf Nanakuli Paving & Rock Co. v. Shell Oil Co.)
No, tipping is not required. If I do an enchant for someone and they don't offer to tip it's my option to put them on /ignore if I choose to do so.
If someone does something for you gratis you should tip. It doesn't even have to be a lot, just enough to show that you appreciate this player stopping what they're doing to craft something for you.