1. #1861
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasperio View Post
    I don't think that's all too bad an idea. I would, in that case, just suggest toning it down ALOT. For a shot to actualy 'follow' the target and hit, your aim has to have been SPOT on when fired, not just NEAR it. It'll help combat latency issues atleast which is probably gonna be a major problem for alot of players (Fortunately one of the concerns I don't share, but can sympathize with).

    But we'll see in the Betas how things turns out. No reason getting too worked up about it yet either way IMO.

    yes, it doesnt need a system like wow, but for ranged to even have a chance in combat theere will need to be some sort of assist.

    but you are correct, no point in me saying its going to be bad before even knowing anything about it, i jumped the gun a little, just concerned as i love playing ranged classes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    I don't like the character models and animations, doesn't seem very elder scrolls like. Apart from that looks promising.

    wait, where have we seen character models and animations? you mean in the video with the devs talking over it? they are probably pretty early models. without playing it its probably too early to start complain about models.
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  2. #1862
    yes, it doesnt need a system like wow, but for ranged to even have a chance in combat theere will need to be some sort of assist.
    You act like it's impossible for ranged to be anything else but tab target.

    It's not, it's just the easy way out. Sugar coating and cutting corners, I know where this is headed.

  3. #1863
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    will casters be like in Skyrim where you can have 1 spell on each hand, and then 5 spells on hotkeys? or will the spells on your hands be the ones on hotkeys? if that makes sense.
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  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    will casters be like in Skyrim where you can have 1 spell on each hand, and then 5 spells on hotkeys? or will the spells on your hands be the ones on hotkeys? if that makes sense.
    Hasn't been much information on caster for TESO. Currently just speculation.

  5. #1865
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    You act like it's impossible for ranged to be anything else but tab target.

    It's not, it's just the easy way out. Sugar coating and cutting corners, I know where this is headed.
    80% player base loss over 1 year? I hope not.





    But that's what tab targeting will do.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2013-01-26 at 05:16 PM.
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  6. #1866
    FPS's are different. Bullets fly faster than arrows. Its like someone shooting a rocket from a distance and you running for cover. You would have to lead with the rocket and also not have that person see you shoot it. The only thing you can compare a working aiming system is TERA to my knowlege. But that doesnt have first person view even those ESO you can scroll out to 3rd, It also is designed so that ranged classes can get out of melee range and CC. In what Elderscrolls game do you see quick paced movements. Just look how those characters run in the trailers.
    Yea and? There's no difficulty other than you time it. I don't see how latency makes it any different -- if people are fine to shoot a button and have their bullet hit their target a millisecond later + X amount of latency, then they'll adjust to shoot their arrow and have it hit the target ~2 seconds later + X amount of latency.

    The added difficulty doesn't lie with the latency but with the nature of the bow, which is expected in all TES games.
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  7. #1867
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    /point Tera.
    Surprisingly range isn't so bad in Tera for both DPS and PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    They should be improving on ARPGs like tera.
    Not devolving into tab targeting.

    Tab targeting is to action combat as final fantasy 1 (turn based) is to zelda ocarina of time.

    It's time for MMOs to evolve.
    Tera Was designed from the ground up around that system. This game isnt. Action RPG's =/= tradional RPG. I for one dislike action RPG's, Things that play like God of War, Tera, Vindictus, Prototype. Thats not my type of gameplay. Action RPG's are about Quick Pace. There is nothing Quick about the Elderscrolls universe of games. Things are slow and methodical like WoW combat and many other generic MMO RPG's. If Action combat is the next step for MMO's then ill stick with older MMO games and not buy any new ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    It has nothing to do with being killed or easier in attacking. You miss the point entirely.
    I think your mission the point where the developers thought that tab targeting or an aim assist was better for their game than traditional aiming in the elderscrolls series where your fighting AI that like to stand infront of you and move slowly. This is PvP against other humans, ppl dont stand still and hit you from the front. Name one fast movement ability you can use in either Morrowind Oblivion or skyrim that allows you to hop out of melee range or strafe while effectivly hitting your target, Somthing you have to do as a ranged class or melee will sit behind you all day.

    Its just not feasible to expect them to keep 100% of the combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    80% player base loss over 1 year? I hope not.
    But that's what tab targeting will do.
    i highly doubt 80% of the players are going to leave the game because of tab targeting, if that was the case then WoW would have 2 mil subs swtor would have about 150k players, no one would be playing RIFT etc etc.

    Tab targeting isnt even bad, the more i hear you ppl whine makes it seem like your not even wanting to play a ranged class but want other ranged to struggle to hit you in PvP with a horrible manual aiming system rather than a tab target system where they can pick you out of a crowd. Less QQ more Pew Pew
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2013-01-26 at 05:39 PM.

  8. #1868
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    From the sounds of it they seem to be sticking to the older school type of combat and not going for the action style combat. O well I'll see what it is like on release/beta but that turns me 100% off. Suppose I'll just wait for the next GW2 expo

  9. #1869
    It also depends on how the do the bows. Will it be like in Skyrim, where you press the left mouse button and release, that it just basically falls in front of you; and to get any actual range on it you have to hold it down? Or will it be like other MMORPGs in that you press the left mouse button and release, and it goes the full range? I can see archers being almost nonexistant, and everyone sticking with spells or melee if they stick to how it is in single player elder scrolls games. It would feel more elder scrolls-y if they used the system they have in Skyrim, but unless you can stay hidden/high up, the typical twitchy bastards in pvp will make your bow useless.

    The reason why online FPS games are so popular, is the fast travel of and rapid fire of the bullets being shot. Now, if they made the arrows fly as fast as a bullet (basically hitting as soon as you release the mouse button), I can see ranged being viable, but then everyone will be ranged, which would be just as bad as everyone being melee. For bows to be viable in pvp with all the twitchy and jumpy crackheads, then arrows need to have the travel time of bullets, or they need a target assist.

  10. #1870
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    i highly doubt 80% of the players are going to leave the game because of tab targeting, if that was the case then WoW would have 2 mil subs swtor would have about 150k players, no one would be playing RIFT etc etc.
    Swtor sold 2.5m copies, kept 500k.

    People already have a tab target game with WoW. Why would they switch for a clone?
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  11. #1871
    Quote Originally Posted by Pachycrocuta View Post
    It also depends on how the do the bows. Will it be like in Skyrim, where you press the left mouse button and release, that it just basically falls in front of you; and to get any actual range on it you have to hold it down? Or will it be like other MMORPGs in that you press the left mouse button and release, and it goes the full range? I can see archers being almost nonexistant, and everyone sticking with spells or melee if they stick to how it is in single player elder scrolls games. It would feel more elder scrolls-y if they used the system they have in Skyrim, but unless you can stay hidden/high up, the typical twitchy bastards in pvp will make your bow useless.

    The reason why online FPS games are so popular, is the fast travel of and rapid fire of the bullets being shot. Now, if they made the arrows fly as fast as a bullet (basically hitting as soon as you release the mouse button), I can see ranged being viable, but then everyone will be ranged, which would be just as bad as everyone being melee. For bows to be viable in pvp with all the twitchy and jumpy crackheads, then arrows need to have the travel time of bullets, or they need a target assist.
    I am assuming based on their podcasts on how melee combat works that if you just press the mouse button its going to do a weak arrow attack but it will hit its target unlike in the single player games where it just falls at your feet. And if you hold the button down i assume it will do a stronger attack that will consume more stamina.

    But im also assuming there will be some ranged based abilities that are more rangerish that you can place on your hotbar.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Swtor sold 2.5m copies, kept 500k.

    People already have a tab target game with WoW. Why would they switch for a clone?
    Right so ppl already have a aiming game in TERA why would they switch for TESO? See what i did there? People dont play games for their targeting system, if you do you have a really shallow game life. I play for gameplay which does include targeting but also includes classes, combat mechanics, dungeons, quests and a bunch of other things. Also what we are calling "tab targeting" in TESO is only for ranged weapons not melee weapons. So things like staffs and Bows which have normal attacks that prolly wont be doing the majority of your damage although we dont know yet. Being melee there is not targeting system and you just hit what ever your weapon swing hits.

    Also even tera isnt a true Aiming system because doesnt your character just aim at what ever the target reticule is on? Which isnt really manual aiming like Elderscrolls games. Where its more FPSish, tho i could be wrong as ive never played tera just vaguely remember some videos.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2013-01-26 at 05:57 PM.

  12. #1872
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post

    Why would they switch for a clone?
    Ask the people playing rift that question.
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  13. #1873
    Archers in games like Chivalry or Mount and Blade are actually very useful, and the combat system in those are akin to the Elder Scrolls games. I think that the premature demise of the ranged classes is entirely unfounded. No assist is necesary, the only thing that's slow with a bow is the loading and aiming, the projectiles move quite fast.

  14. #1874
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    I am a bit worried about the casters. IMO they did not do a good job making pure casters viable throughout or enjoyable in skyrim. We'll have to see I guess.

  15. #1875
    Quote Originally Posted by vanin View Post
    Archers in games like Chivalry or Mount and Blade are actually very useful, and the combat system in those are akin to the Elder Scrolls games. I think that the premature demise of the ranged classes is entirely unfounded. No assist is necesary, the only thing that's slow with a bow is the loading and aiming, the projectiles move quite fast.
    To be fair though the movement speed in Chivalry and to a degree M&B (on foot) is pretty slow, Chivalry is about half of what I'd expect from a regular RPG or MMORPG. Hitting someone on a fast horse in M&B PvP was pretty difficult. Not saying it does need assists though.

    I would point out to those saying tab targetting that while they did mention some form of light aim assist they never mentioned it being an actual tab target system.

  16. #1876
    Quote Originally Posted by vanin View Post
    Archers in games like Chivalry or Mount and Blade are actually very useful, and the combat system in those are akin to the Elder Scrolls games. I think that the premature demise of the ranged classes is entirely unfounded. No assist is necesary, the only thing that's slow with a bow is the loading and aiming, the projectiles move quite fast.
    Do those games have other skills you can use or is it just what ever your weapon is? This game is gonna have a whole lot more than just weapons swings like the two games you mentioned. Do you think a WoW hunter would be as effective in that system? I dont think so.

  17. #1877
    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer View Post
    What is your definition of fail? Unseat WoW, then yeah it will fail. Is ToR a failure? It didn't unseat WoW but no one really expected, or at least no one sane. ToR didn't keep me, but it kept most of my guild who bailed on WoW. Our guild has more in ToR than in WoW, but I am sure they will be back, they always are.
    Anyway just wondering how people measure failure around here. People say RIFT failed, but it is still going.
    Rift wanted to be a WoW killer and failed to be one. But they managed to keep enough people to continue the subscription model. A moderate success.
    SW:TOR was a failure. It started with sky-high expectation, talked about never going f2p, they talked about 10 year plan, big content updates and great endgame. They delivered a fantastic singleplayer storymode and everything else was really bad, unfinished and bugged. They needed to go F2P.

    Real success is, when your MMO gets more subscripers over time - not less.




  18. #1878
    I'm glad the goal of ESO is not to kill WoW. Their goal, as they've said many times, is to make it feel like you are playing TES but with friends.
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  19. #1879
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Do those games have other skills you can use or is it just what ever your weapon is? This game is gonna have a whole lot more than just weapons swings like the two games you mentioned. Do you think a WoW hunter would be as effective in that system? I dont think so.
    Just the swings. And Elder Scrolls games, which I compared it to, don't have alot more than weapon swings either. Normal attack, power attack and recently in Skyrim shield bash if you have a shield. Which is the same as Mount and Blade which has huge multiplayer battles with archers, swordsmen and everything inbetween fighting. I honestly don't think it will be much of a problem. If characters move too fast the drawing and releasing of the arrow, as well as the arrow's speed, could just be increased. I don't think aiming would be a problem at all as it isn't in any other game.

    Also, don't drag anything related to WoW into this discussion about combat mechanics, it doesn't belong. WoW has an outdated combat system, hailing back to the first 3d rpgs ever made. If you want to compare the combat in TESO you will only have to look to titles like Mount and Blade, Dark Messiah and War of the Roses, that is essentially what they are going for and it works well in those games. WoW is not comparable at all because the game was made in an entirely different time with entirely different expectations.

  20. #1880
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Please tell me that is going to be a sub mmo. B2P and F2P suck. Buy to play game have no endgame content and F2P games cost way way way more then sub games if you really want to play the game.

    Also - Aldmeri Dominion
    I agree with this completely. I really hope there is a sub because a sub is what allows there to be good content updates. Free to play games end up getting boring too fast. Buy to play games are bad because not everyone buys the content that is available (eg, some of your friends won't be able to go into new dungeons or will have shitty gear) and to really experience all of the content you have to spend too much.

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