[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Minky]

Can't believe I am getting excited for this thing. Cinematic looked great.

I haven't liked an Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind. But so much of what I am hearing as features is + column for me. ><

Don't get overhyped like you did for GW2 :3c

[wynterlyn]

I'll elaborate as I may not have been as clear as possible. (And FYI the "stay on topic" comment in another thread is unrelated to this, so no clue why you're bringing it up).

SWTOR is a great example of the first situation: SWTOR promoted alt-play through having unique class stories, and reinforced it through the legacy system which provided perks for you to unlock for alts, and gave you additional legacy progression by leveling alts. The issue is that once you leveled one character on each faction, that was pretty much it for unique content. You may have skipped bits here and there, but on the whole you were going through the same flashpoints, doing the same planetary quests, and the same side-quests. It didn't provide enough unique content to support multiple playthroughs, instead relying on the class quests to be the primary source of new content.

I thought BioWare was lazy in pushing the alt-play without supporting it with unique secondary non-class story quest content. This kind of development mindset reeks of lazy development in my opinion, as no game should heavily promote repeating old content (such as leveling content) as a core part of gameplay (the class quests were a core part of the game and something they promoted heavily).

If ESO were to provide some similar "class quests" type of content, and promote it as a core game feature, without allowing for a unique leveling path for each additional character, I would similarly feel that the developers took the easy route and used lazy design to prolong the experience in lieu of more meaningful content.

The only time I would support the promotion of playing alts in as a legitimate aspect of gameplay would be if there was proper content support for it. If the game wants to promote leveling alts, then it would provide unique leveling paths for multiple characters so that you are experiencing more than just a new class or a new class-based storyline, but a mostly new leveling experience from start to finish. You would need new zones to explore and new quests, with the possibility of maybe 1-2 new dungeons (though that would be asking quite a bit).

Happy now? Because cross posting about this in other threads is getting annoying and is off-topic to those threads.

You said you didn't like when devs force you to level alts implying TESL O devs forcing you to level alts to experience and explore the whole of Tamriel.

Well then if you level a toon with each faction they will offer you a unique levelling experience with no repetitive quests so you can hardly compare SWTOR with what TES are doing.

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 11:31 PM ----------

I don't think that you're understanding what Edge is trying to say. It's not that the unique class stories are a bad thing, it's the fact that the unique class stories are it. If TOR had focused on giving people alternate paths to achieving max level aside from running the exact same planets with the exact same quests over and over again and only making your class quests an extremely minute amount of experience, it would be different. But there are no branching paths. There is no ability to go to a different planet you didn't already level through. It's the EXACT same path with the EXACT same quests every single time. It's boring and doesn't promote the alt-leveling that you're trying to promote.

We perfectly understand what he is trying to say but he is contradicting it himself. He said the first time that he didn't want to be "forced" to level alts (btw no one was forcing him) to experience and explore Tamriel. Then he goes ahead and finished off by saying its perfectly fine with him to level alts if they each offer a unique levelling experience. Then he goes and takes SWTOR as an example. I mean the locations were the same.

While in TES you will have a complete different area to level up each time if you go down the route of levelling an alt with each factio. And no he has confused himself and everyone by making it a SWTOR discussion.

Its clearly simple that some people will continue to bash games for no reason only cause. I mean TES gives everyone the option to experience tamriel in its entirety if they so wish and each Faction will offer a unique experience since the devs said that quests are going to focus on each faction's current troubles and setting.

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 11:34 PM ----------

No, I got that. I wasn't defending the SWTOR but I don't think that would've been a problem if the legacy system didn't exist and SWTOR had enough content otherwise.
I'm really talking about the potential future of ESO. That is, having a unique storyline with a linear leveling path is not a problem IF you didn't run out of things to do on your main. ESO has not implied there's a legacy system in the works, and the implication that there's a unique storyline is lazy development if you get the same quests otherwise, is something I don't believe.

I get the implication that it's a problem if you miss out on these big storylines. That only matters if there isn't enough content in general. Which is why I asked if the problem was the development time taken away from general content to make unique ones.

The game has been in development for over 5 years. Eve WoW was in development for only 4 years. So I don't think they are wasting any time. They are making a close to perfect MMO while providing a unique gaming experience.

And if anyone here has played any of TES series, you would know by now that there is never enough of anything. There is just so much content in each of their game and I expect it to be the same even in the MMO.

[Edge-]

You said you didn't like when devs force you to level alts implying TESL O devs forcing you to level alts to experience and explore the whole of Tamriel.

Well then if you level a toon with each faction they will offer you a unique levelling experience with no repetitive quests so you can hardly compare SWTOR with what TES are doing.

I never once implied that it would happen in ESO. I was commenting on the possibility of it, as this thread is pretty much pure speculation, and the general design principle. I discuss broader design principles and game mechanics frequently throughout different threads. There is discussion of walled off starting zones, and I know there is a story element to the game, so I gave thoughts on the possibility that they go down this route. I never said they were going to, but the possibility is there (as are a million other possibilities).

We don't know if they will do this and if they do, we don't know that the leveling experience will be unique across multiple characters. I'd be curious as to how you supposedly know this based on your second statement, as you seem pretty confident about it.

This seems to be an issue in this thread, where people are speculating about possibilities and others take it as if they're commenting on fact or something. Almost all the discussion in this thread is speculation, so take as speculation and not as fact. Until we hear more from Zenimax Online, or the flood gates from beta open, that's all this thread will be, speculation.

[wynterlyn]

I never once implied that it would happen in ESO. I was commenting on the possibility of it, as this thread is pretty much pure speculation, and the general design principle. I discuss broader design principles and game mechanics frequently throughout different threads. There is discussion of walled off starting zones, and I know there is a story element to the game, so I gave thoughts on the possibility that they go down this route. I never said they were going to, but the possibility is there (as are a million other possibilities).

We don't know if they will do this and if they do, we don't know that the leveling experience will be unique across multiple characters. I'd be curious as to how you supposedly know this based on your second statement, as you seem pretty confident about it.

This seems to be an issue in this thread, where people are speculating about possibilities and others take it as if they're commenting on fact or something. Almost all the discussion in this thread is speculation, so take as speculation and not as fact. Until we hear more from Zenimax Online, or the flood gates from beta open, that's all this thread will be, speculation.

Well your possibilities and speculatios are simply related to bashing the game. I mean you don't have to be so negative even with your discussions. I prefer to look at the positive side to the game. So since there are million possibilities I am pretty sure TES:O has the popularity and the gaming experience to completely hurt WoWs numbers. I am pretty sure if something negative about WoW is brought up here, the thread gets immediately locked.

[Edge-]

Well your possibilities and speculatios are simply related to bashing the game. I mean you don't have to be so negative even with your discussions. I prefer to look at the positive side to the game. So since there are million possibilities I am pretty sure TES:O has the popularity and the gaming experience to completely hurt WoWs numbers. I am pretty sure if something negative about WoW is brought up here, the thread gets immediately locked.

I don't even know how to respond. Seriously. You've blown my god damned mind.

[Archangel Tyrael]

I don't even know how to respond. Seriously. You've blown my god damned mind.

- sorry, couldn't resist. lol

[Deleted]

I don't even know how to respond. Seriously. You've blown my god damned mind.

To be fair, Edge, you are comming across a bit lop sided in your recent posts

Even while I share your concerns, you're being awfully vocal and seem determined that it'll be that way, period. I just read it and like to believe you're more neutral regarding the subject which leads me to see the whole thing lighthearted, but a friend told me to check this thread today telling me "the mod is raging out!" which got me nerveous :P

[Edge-]

To be fair, Edge, you are comming across a bit lop sided in your recent posts

Even while I share your concerns, you're being awfully vocal and seem determined that it'll be that way, period. I just read it and like to believe you're more neutral regarding the subject which leads me to see the whole thing lighthearted, but a friend told me to check this thread today telling me "the mod is raging out!" which got me nerveous :P

I'm being vocal about that design aspect, not vocal about TESO. Again, I've never said that TESO will have it. I've expressed my dislike of that design direction, and said that I would be disappointed if TESO went that route. I never said I was disappointed in TESO, because I don't know enough about the game.

All I can say about TESO is that they haven't impressed me too much, but I do respect that they seemed to listen to the feedback from their initial announcement and are working to improve the game. Beyond that, I have no opinion of the game because I don't know anything about the actual game, and we haven't seen any playable builds. Once I get my hands on it and can see some more concrete info I'll begin to form an opinion on the game itself, but not before then.

Again, I discuss general design principles and game mechanics, as they apply in all games, throughout multiple different thread. It's not always directly related to the exact game the thread is in (such as this case as we don't know if it applies or not). I'm simply expressing my dislike of that design direction and my hope that they don't go down that route.

[wynterlyn]

To be fair, Edge, you are comming across a bit lop sided in your recent posts

Even while I share your concerns, you're being awfully vocal and seem determined that it'll be that way, period. I just read it and like to believe you're more neutral regarding the subject which leads me to see the whole thing lighthearted, but a friend told me to check this thread today telling me "the mod is raging out!" which got me nerveous :P

Well there are a lot others too that seem to have a very one sided and totally loop sided in their discussions. I mean if we are discussing and I admit these are just speculations shouldn't we take into consideration that we literally know nothing much about the game? Even what we know is basically bits and pieces pieced together.

I get that this is a WoW fan site but even then I think common sense is not exclusive to certain forums.

[notorious98]

Again you are maybe aware of this but how much thought did you actually give to the fact that your killing wolves this time instead of bears? I'd be surprised if any of you actually gave it a second though. The reality is that your killing quest mob. Not bears. Not wolves. Quest mob.

The same amount of thought that somebody puts into having sex with different people. Yeah, it's still sex, but it looks different. And I do give it a second thought. That's why I was able to level 5 toons to 85 in WoW and could only max out 2 toons in TOR. The reason? Because I was sick of going to Balmorra and seeing the same damn quest again and again. It's the same reason I would eat different cereals every day, if I ate cereal.

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 08:14 PM ----------

Well your possibilities and speculatios are simply related to bashing the game. I mean you don't have to be so negative even with your discussions. I prefer to look at the positive side to the game. So since there are million possibilities I am pretty sure TES:O has the popularity and the gaming experience to completely hurt WoWs numbers. I am pretty sure if something negative about WoW is brought up here, the thread gets immediately locked.

Same thing could have been said about an MMO based in the Star Wars universe created by a company famous for great storylines and great RPG games. But they failed to dent WoW's numbers. What makes you think that Zenimax, a company that has also never made an MMO before, will be able to succeed where so many other, more knowledgeable MMO companies have failed?

[Deleted]

Welp, i read the neogaf, and it seems this game will be an BIG BIG failure...very sadly, again no good mmo to play ....

who do they use the Hero-Engine? its ugly and spells are bound to the cast animation, which restricts fluid gameplay to 100%.


Also it seems they are going to use the GW2 battle system which is HORRIBLE for PvE because it gets blatant after level 10.

[notorious98]

We perfectly understand what he is trying to say but he is contradicting it himself. He said the first time that he didn't want to be "forced" to level alts (btw no one was forcing him) to experience and explore Tamriel. Then he goes ahead and finished off by saying its perfectly fine with him to level alts if they each offer a unique levelling experience. Then he goes and takes SWTOR as an example. I mean the locations were the same.

While in TES you will have a complete different area to level up each time if you go down the route of levelling an alt with each factio. And no he has confused himself and everyone by making it a SWTOR discussion.

Its clearly simple that some people will continue to bash games for no reason only cause. I mean TES gives everyone the option to experience tamriel in its entirety if they so wish and each Faction will offer a unique experience since the devs said that quests are going to focus on each faction's current troubles and setting.

Being "forced" to level an alt because the company is using it as a means of "content" and being "willing" to level an alt because they offer a unique experience is about as far from a contradiction as you can get. In fact, they are two completely different things that have nothing to do with one another aside from leveling an alt.

[ddsad2212]

Welp, i read the neogaf, and it seems this game will be an BIG BIG failure...very sadly, again no good mmo to play ....

who do they use the Hero-Engine? its ugly and spells are bound to the cast animation, which restricts fluid gameplay to 100%.

Zero info on the and you jump to that big of an assumption? I mean are people even trying to hide when they are flame baiting any more lol.

[Deleted]

Zero info on the and you jump to that big of an assumption? I mean are people even trying to hide when they are flame baiting any more lol.

wat?

did you read that neogaf post? or are you just on of these guys who Hype every new MMO to heavens just to see it fail again?



also


"-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"

i seriously hope that doesnt mean what it reads.

[Edge-]

Welp, i read the neogaf, and it seems this game will be an BIG BIG failure...very sadly, again no good mmo to play ....

who do they use the Hero-Engine? its ugly and spells are bound to the cast animation, which restricts fluid gameplay to 100%.


Also it seems they are going to use the GW2 battle system which is HORRIBLE for PvE because it gets blatant after level 10.

They aren't using the hero-engine in the final product, they're using it to "whiteboard" while they finish their internal engine they'll be using. And we have yet to see a game on the finalized hero-engine, only SWTOR on the very early beta version that BW finished in house. Wait to judge the capabilities of the engine till you see the finalized version in the hands of a competent dev team.

Beyond that, what exactly does Neogaf say? I'm curious, because we know fuckall about the game, and based on your assumption that they're still using the hero-engine, I'd be willing to bet they're functioning with a bunch of other incorrect information/false premises.

redit: also, why is GW2's combat system horrible? Because you have a limited number of abilities (15 plus any class specific ones)? I'd say that's far from an indication that it's bad. Dota2/LoL both have only 4 abilities (LoL has 2 summoner ones as well) but I'd be hard pressed to find people who say that the lack of abilities makes the games combat lack depth.

[notorious98]

They aren't using the hero-engine in the final product, they're using it to "whiteboard" while they finish their internal engine they'll be using. And we have yet to see a game on the finalized hero-engine, only SWTOR on the very early beta version that BW finished in house. Wait to judge the capabilities of the engine till you see the finalized version in the hands of a competent dev team.

Beyond that, what exactly does Neogaf say? I'm curious, because we know fuckall about the game, and based on your assumption that they're still using the hero-engine, I'd be willing to bet they're functioning with a bunch of other incorrect information/false premises.

From what I've read, they only used the Hero Engine during the early stages of Alpha.

[Edge-]

From what I've read, they only used the Hero Engine during the early stages of Alpha.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05...-a-whiteboard/

They will not be using it in the finished product, so all comments on it are irrelevant.

[Fencers]

Don't get overhyped like you did for GW2 :3c

I wasn't particularly hype for Guild Wars 2... ?

I was and still am highly interested in GW2's game design in the current MMO market.

[Deleted]

Discussing how to break NDA.... not something we need to talk about anymore. Yes, there are ways to do it. No, you can't post them here.

what happened to mmo-champion

i remember the days of all the NDA stuff posted on front page in wow betas :P

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 01:34 AM ----------

I wasn't particularly hype for Guild Wars 2... ?

I was and still am highly interested in GW2's game design in the current MMO market.

same, i didnt even read about GW2 before launch, i just decided to buy it on launch and see how it was because i was really bored at the time. ended up being one of the best mmos ive played in a long time, at least for leveling up. i found it very fun being able to vary your play style so easy by changing weapons and the big group events. but i just got bored at level cap

[Archangel Tyrael]

what happened to mmo-champion

i remember the days of all the NDA stuff posted on front page in wow betas :P

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 01:34 AM ----------




same, i didnt even read about GW2 before launch, i just decided to buy it on launch and see how it was because i was really bored at the time. ended up being one of the best mmos ive played in a long time, at least for leveling up. i found it very fun being able to vary your play style so easy by changing weapons and the big group events. but i just got bored at level cap

yup, GW2 would've been awesome if there were more things to do at level cap...

Well, besides PVP, that is, but you can PVP at anytime so that is rather dull...