[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[zito]

Exactly why I hate the f2p model. Even if it's fair and the cash shop sells only cosmetic things at launch, I wouldnt want to invest in such a game and be worried that they get greedy and start selling items that offer benefits or switch to the pay to win model.

GW2 counters your logic with a fair cash shop and monthly updates which they haven't missed yet. (Though granted I think Anet sugarcoast a bit much but my point still stands). It's B2P though not F2P but same concept.

Not to mention Aion is still going strong and is coming out with 3 new classes and they also have a fair cash shop.

---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 08:15 PM ----------

Massively means massive amounts of players playing together.

Massive can be any god damn thing.

It's an MMO not to your standard of an MMO.

Don't confuse your personal preference with definitions.

[Nirawen]

massive doesn't have to mean big open world. It can mean big in features.

It means neither, it means the amount of people playing in the same world, with LoL that would be a maximum of 10 people. Massively-Multiplayer i.e mutiplayer on a large scale.

[Graict]

Massive can be any god damn thing.

It's an MMO not to your standard of an MMO.

Don't confuse your personal preference with definitions.

No. It isn't. Following your logic, every multiplayer game ever is an MMO. Stop being wrong, please.

[papajohn4]

ranged doesn't have to aim in gw2. GW2 is more like a wow/tera baby. Tera isn't western enough for most the western audience.

maybe my example wasn't perfect but really, the reason people leave new games and go back to wow or in their previous game has nothing to do with tab target combat. Personaly I don't care if it will be tab target or 100% action...other things bother me If they can catch the elder scrolls atmosphere wit ha simple but enjoyable combat it would be perfect..

How does exp boost help anyone win? So you get to max level faster, that's great. Not really P2W. "Suppose" they start selling them P2W things, then yeah it becomes P2W, but that's why they aren't selling those things.

This discussion again...I have seen many and took part in most of them and always always, neither side can convince the other...to put it simply lets say I am a very bad guy and if I need to kill 10 mob to level I am expecting you to kill 10 also..."win" is a word, it could be "fair" or anything else...the point is that if I need to do x to get y, you need to do x to get y and that because I am very bad

[Valeron]

It means neither, it means the amount of people playing in the same world, with LoL that would be a maximum of 10 people. Massively-Multiplayer i.e mutiplayer on a large scale.

Indeed. It's why a lot of people don't consider GW1 an mmo either.

[Deleted]

I have seen very few Pay to Win mmos. There are some out there but the number of them is greatly exaggerated.

I think it depends on the definition. To me it's when you can pay real money to make your ingame performance better in any way. Faster exp etc. is pay to win also. It doesn't automatically mean you win but it gives you advantages to do so. Besides, most MMOs aren't about winning anyway and wallet size shouldn't determine your performance in a game.

[vizzle]

So how about dem dragon-tanking horses, ey?

[Deleted]

massive doesn't have to mean big open world. It can mean big in features.

Ahhahhahahaahah.

God that was a good laugh.

It means neither, it means the amount of people playing in the same world, with LoL that would be a maximum of 10 people. Massively-Multiplayer i.e mutiplayer on a large scale.

What he said. Would also like to add persistent world.

[Valeron]

I think it depends on the definition. To me it's when you can real money to make your ingame performance better in any way. Faster exp etc. is pay to win also. It doesn't automatically mean you win but it gives you advantages to do so. Besides, most MMOs aren't about winning anyway and wallet size shouldn't determine your performance in a game.

Well I don't consider pay for convenience as pay to win. Otherwise you have a broad definition of pay to win. I mean you could consider WoW pay to win with their store bought mounts.

[Zeek Daniels]

You do know what MMO stands for right?

Massively
Multiplayer
Online

It's massive regardless if its instance or not

You play with other people so its multiplayer

It's an online game

It's an MMO. It's just not an MMO to YOUR STANDARDS

Zito i think Massively Multiplayer have to go togeather. Else its just an Multiplayer Online Game. I think an MMO has to have more players in a "instance" than what LoL has. Else D3 would be an MMO. I think LoL is just a Multiplayer Online Game but it isnt massively multiplayer because of the limited number of players in a game.

[xxf2dxx]

Well I don't consider pay for convenience as pay to win. Otherwise you have a broad definition of pay to win. I mean you could consider WoW pay to win with their store bought mounts.

Mounts don't really give you an advantage. They're purely cosmetic and their speeds can be matched by items in game. Pay 2 win would be something like buying gold off the RMAH on Diablo. While I don't consider Diablo 3 an MMO, it's more the gold buying as the example.

Also, how about we get on topic about ESO instead of debating what an MMO is or "P2W" considering it's not even an actual feature of the game.
So anyone have an update on the start of the beta?

[vizzle]

Well I don't consider pay for convenience as pay to win. Otherwise you have a broad definition of pay to win. I mean you could consider WoW pay to win with their store bought mounts.

Not to mention you can practically buy gold in WoW legally, what with BOE pets that you can pay for with cash and then sell in-game. Nobody complains that WoW is P2W (since gold doesn't really let you win anyway).

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 04:24 AM ----------

Mounts don't really give you an advantage. They're purely cosmetic and their speeds can be matched by items in game. Pay 2 win would be something like buying gold off the RMAH on Diablo. While I don't consider Diablo 3 an MMO, it's more the gold buying as the example.

That's what Doozer's point is; mounts are just convenience like how exp boosts are convenient. They don't make the game P2W.

[Deleted]

Well I don't consider pay for convenience as pay to win. Otherwise you have a broad definition of pay to win. I mean you could consider WoW pay to win with their store bought mounts.

It's more in the gray area They are basically just new skins for your mounts. I guess you could save a few gold buy buying them though so it depends on how picky you want to be. In principle it is pay to win yes as it gives you a tiny one time boost per character but it's too insignificant to really matter.

[vizzle]

It's more in the gray area They are basically just new skins for your mounts. I guess you could save a few gold buy buying them though so it depends on how picky you want to be. In principle it is pay to win yes as it gives you a tiny one time boost per character but it's too insignificant to really matter.

Pay to win is only counted as pay to win if it gives you an advantage over other players in a real competitive environment. If you can buy items that'll give you stat boosts in raids or battlegrounds or arenas, it's pay to win (talking about WoW). If you can buy items that help you in those areas, in a way that no one can get those items otherwise unless they pay for it, then it's pay to win. Anything else? No.

[Deleted]

Pay to win is only counted as pay to win if it gives you an advantage over other players in a real competitive environment. If you can buy items that'll give you stat boosts in raids or battlegrounds or arenas, it's pay to win (talking about WoW). If you can buy items that help you in those areas, in a way that no one can get those items otherwise unless they pay for it, then it's pay to win. Anything else? No.

Exp boost is the same. Lets say a new expansion comes out that raises the level cap to 100. A guild that buys the exp boost has an advantage over other guilds that dont in getting to 100 first and getting some world's first achievements. Same with rep and arena rating boosts as well as raised VP and other caps. they allow you to get better stuff before others and have a better chance in being picked into PuGs, guilds etc. as well as PvP.

[Pachycrocuta]

Massive can be any god damn thing.

It's an MMO not to your standard of an MMO.

Don't confuse your personal preference with definitions.

You are the one confusing personal preference with definition. MMORPG means "massively multiplayer online role-playing game". The Ms go together. The definition of MMO means "a game with a persistent world where a large (massively) number of people playing at the same time". League of Legends is a "MOBA" or "multiplayer online battle arena". Nothing "massively" about that game other than the number of accounts created. The biggest thing is the massive number of players playing in a persistant world.

[Sj]

This thread is not about the definition of "MMO" or who's right or wrong about it. Stay on topic.

[vizzle]

Exp boost is the same. Lets say a new expansion comes out that raises the level cap to 100. A guild that buys the exp boost has an advantage over other guilds that dont in getting to 100 first and getting some world's first achievements. Same with rep and arena rating boosts as well as raised VP and other caps. they allow you to get better stuff before others and have a better chance in being picked into PuGs, guilds etc. as well as PvP.

That's a very big if situation. A lot of things have to align for that to be a pay to win situation, so many that the chances of it not happening become greater with each "if".

"If" they have exp boosts, "if" they allow you to buy exp boosts right after the expansion is launched, "if" there are world first achievements. This is coming from a base of nothing right now, actually worse than nothing (worse in the view of your argument) since they've stated they don't like pay to win. Worrying about it is negligible.

"If if if", "If" WoW added guns and made you play in first person mode and made the game an FPS, then it would become an FPS. Does that mean every time you log onto WoW you worry that it's going to become an FPS tomorrow?

[Valeron]

So reaching level cap quicker is considered an achievement? What about games that scale you to the level of content, essentially making your leveling insignificant. Or in competitive environments where your level is normalized anyway.

Anyway, I agree with a previous poster, enough talk about payment models and more about what kind of combat will ESO have.

[Nirawen]

Exp boost is the same. Lets say a new expansion comes out that raises the level cap to 100. A guild that buys the exp boost has an advantage over other guilds that dont in getting to 100 first and getting some world's first achievements. Same with rep and arena rating boosts as well as raised VP and other caps. they allow you to get better stuff before others and have a better chance in being picked into PuGs, guilds etc. as well as PvP.

I agree to a degree but a lot of the time things like rep have a time-based cap making it a case of less effort but not quicker. I personally don't consider experience boosts Pay to Win but I can understand why people could given the reasons you gave.