[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Edge-]

What conclusions can we draw about ESO in this regard, given recent events? Or is it too soon to tell?

It's too soon for a final verdict.

History would lead us to believe that any subscription based game launching in the current market is in for a bad time, regardless of the game. However, that's not to say that it's a foregone conclusion that any subscription game launching in the current market is guaranteed to fail as a subscription based game.

What conclusions can we draw? That ESO is releasing in a hostile market, and especially given the lukewarm response it initially received, has to fight an uphill battle in order to succeed as a subscription based game. It's not impossible by any means, but it's absolutely a challenge. However it's still too soon to tell given that we don't have much in the way of opinion from media or beta testers, so we can't gauge the critical or public reaction to the game thus far.

[Lycanthat]

it's still too soon to tell given that we don't have much in the way of opinion from media or beta testers, so we can't gauge the critical or public reaction to the game thus far.

Yeah it's been frustrating not knowing. Apparently on Friday morning some media outlets are supposed to give their impressions. Can't come soon enough!

[Edge-]

Yeah it's been frustrating not knowing. Apparently on Friday morning some media outlets are supposed to give their impressions. Can't come soon enough!

Indeed, I'm hoping it's a blanket removal of the NDA from everyone. But even if it's just from media/new media folks, I'm quite eager to read/listen to reactions. There are a number of journalists/youtubers I'm hoping will be posting opinions and reactions, so I can get some sort of gauge of what to expect from the game from people I trust.

Hopefully this will be a good thing for the game. I know I'm quite excited.

[Zafire]

I was actually hoping to make an Imperial because I always pick the "human" race and Bretons are defensive mages (lore-wise). Imperials are pretty well-rounded, generally have bonuses to melee weapons, and an Imperial Nightblade makes more sense than a Breton Nightblade. I chose Imperial as my first race in Oblivion and Skyrim, and I was a bit sad to hear I couldn't in ESO.

I feel a bit uncomfortable having to purchase a "limited time only" pre-order just to have access to it though. Why can't I go to my local gamestop and pre-order it there? Well, whatever. I'm just gonna go with it.

[Champagne Supernova]

It's too soon for a final verdict.

History would lead us to believe that any subscription based game launching in the current market is in for a bad time, regardless of the game. However, that's not to say that it's a foregone conclusion that any subscription game launching in the current market is guaranteed to fail as a subscription based game.

What conclusions can we draw? That ESO is releasing in a hostile market, and especially given the lukewarm response it initially received, has to fight an uphill battle in order to succeed as a subscription based game. It's not impossible by any means, but it's absolutely a challenge. However it's still too soon to tell given that we don't have much in the way of opinion from media or beta testers, so we can't gauge the critical or public reaction to the game thus far.

I still think it will do better than the other 'Failed' MMO's by simply having a more accessible market from the Xbox One and PS4, nearly everyone and their mother has either console by now and i doubt either system has that many games attached to it since it was only released around November, So console players may see it as the next Skyrim or something.

Maintaining subscriptions though is a different ballgame. If i were them, i'd offer a survey to the players to see what kinda crowd they're dealing with, whether its Raiders/PvP'ers or just casual people, then design/focus on most of the content around the results. Let's be honest, any new MMO is gonna release to a hostile environment, People see it as the new kid at school.

[Marthenil]

I was actually hoping to make an Imperial because I always pick the "human" race and Bretons are defensive mages (lore-wise). Imperials are pretty well-rounded, generally have bonuses to melee weapons, and an Imperial Nightblade makes more sense than a Breton Nightblade. I chose Imperial as my first race in Oblivion and Skyrim, and I was a bit sad to hear I couldn't in ESO.

I feel a bit uncomfortable having to purchase a "limited time only" pre-order just to have access to it though. Why can't I go to my local gamestop and pre-order it there? Well, whatever. I'm just gonna go with it.

Well, as far as racials go, a Nord Nightblade is totally viable as well. As for Breton, the racials enhance the Magic part of Nightblade (It's not just an assassin)

[Deleted]

Well I don't know about you guys but I'm excited as hell.
I mean... Correct me if I'm wrong but... I can play in vvanderfell?
I can play a 2handed wielding dunmer battlemage in a NEW version of morrowind?
That only is worth it for me
Just to compare the two maps.

[Marthenil]

I'm more excited for the Iron Islands, I erm mean High Rock!

[Edge-]

I still think it will do better than the other 'Failed' MMO's by simply having a more accessible market from the Xbox One and PS4, nearly everyone and their mother has either console by now and i doubt either system has that many games attached to it since it was only released around November, So console players may see it as the next Skyrim or something.

Erm, the combined installbase by now is 7 million minimum (3M Xbox Ones confirmed, and 4 million PS4's IIRC), with possibly 8-10 million being possible. That's far from "everyone and their mothers", and dramatically lower than either the PS3 or Xbox 360 in the previous generation. Remember, supply is still limited for both consoles in many area's. I'd honestly be surprised if there was a combed 20M sold consoles by the time ESO launched. So considering that, it's got a smaller reach than games like DCUO or FFXIV (not including Defiance because...yeah it was bad -_-), neither of which sold more than 3 million or so IIRC.

Maintaining subscriptions though is a different ballgame. If i were them, i'd offer a survey to the players to see what kinda crowd they're dealing with, whether its Raiders/PvP'ers or just casual people, then design/focus on most of the content around the results. Let's be honest, any new MMO is gonna release to a hostile environment, People see it as the new kid at school.

Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock in a survey. It's going to be responded to by a certain group of people, and they're the minority. Metrics from the open beta and from the live client will be far more valuable in terms of figuring out what activities people engage in.

Well, as far as racials go, a Nord Nightblade is totally viable as well. As for Breton, the racials enhance the Magic part of Nightblade (It's not just an assassin)

Viable and "optimal" are two vastly different things. Unfortunately, people confuse the two quite often : /

[Marthenil]

Erm, the combined installbase by now is 7 million minimum (3M Xbox Ones confirmed, and 4 million PS4's IIRC), with possibly 8-10 million being possible. That's far from "everyone and their mothers", and dramatically lower than either the PS3 or Xbox 360 in the previous generation. Remember, supply is still limited for both consoles in many area's. I'd honestly be surprised if there was a combed 20M sold consoles by the time ESO launched. So considering that, it's got a smaller reach than games like DCUO or FFXIV (not including Defiance because...yeah it was bad -_-), neither of which sold more than 3 million or so IIRC.



Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock in a survey. It's going to be responded to by a certain group of people, and they're the minority. Metrics from the open beta and from the live client will be far more valuable in terms of figuring out what activities people engage in.



Viable and "optimal" are two vastly different things. Unfortunately, people confuse the two quite often : /

Well based on Skyrim racials (I know they are not the same) of the Men races Breton is the most optimal for a Nightblade.
Dunmer and Bosmer for the Mer races.



EDIT: But it also depends on how you want to play your Nightblade. This is the beauty of Elder Scrolls. (ESO included)

[Champagne Supernova]

I was actually hoping to make an Imperial because I always pick the "human" race and Bretons are defensive mages (lore-wise). Imperials are pretty well-rounded, generally have bonuses to melee weapons, and an Imperial Nightblade makes more sense than a Breton Nightblade. I chose Imperial as my first race in Oblivion and Skyrim, and I was a bit sad to hear I couldn't in ESO.

I feel a bit uncomfortable having to purchase a "limited time only" pre-order just to have access to it though. Why can't I go to my local gamestop and pre-order it there? Well, whatever. I'm just gonna go with it.

As far as i know you can, Gamestop is on the list of participating stores for the Physical Imperial Edition.

[Deleted]

As I said, some people simply won't care, and apparently you are one of them.

On the other hand, I do care. Not saying the racials are amazing, just that they are non-trivial and non-cosmetic. I disagree with ZOS and their business practices on a fundamental level. For someone like me who was very on the fence about this game, it makes the decision not to buy very easy.

Just because you care doesn't mean it will mean anything in gameplay. Untill you can show that racials give you a strong advantage with the same class as a different race your arguments are pretty much worthless.

The number of people in WoW who roll a race for the racials is incredible small...small amount in pvp and in pve. I personally have not met a single person in WoW who chose a race for the stats. Animation and looks are the 2 biggest factors. Aside from lore that is.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

If WoW had a racial with 4% flat damage to magic, every single caster in a serious progression guild would be an Altmer. But that's because the only path to top-end gear in WoW is small-scale competitive PvP and very difficult raids where a small % shift in DPS can make a significant difference.

ESO has given no indication that it will have the same progression path as WoW. A game with casual raids and large-scale PvP has a lot more flexibility when it comes to racials (and many other balance issues) simply because the microscope doesn't need to be as finely tuned.

[Deleted]

I still think it will do better than the other 'Failed' MMO's by simply having a more accessible market from the Xbox One and PS4, nearly everyone and their mother has either console by now and i doubt either system has that many games attached to it since it was only released around November, So console players may see it as the next Skyrim or something.

I think that's not very accurate. When Skyrim was release the PS3 and Xbox360 where already 5 years old and probably had at least 50 million units sold worldwide each (this is an estimate on my part as they have about 80 million now). The newest data about the new consoles says they sold about 4 million units each worldwide each. Lets say both consoles combined get to 15 million units shipped by April (very optimistic guess I would say). So their potential console market is at least 4-5 times smaller then Skyrim's and the sales will probably be lower since it is a subscription based game. So I would say selling 3 million copies on both consoles in the 1st year would be a great success for them.

EDIT: I see Edge beat me to it, but I guess we arrived to a similar conclusion

[Lycanthat]

Well, as far as racials go, a Nord Nightblade is totally viable as well. As for Breton, the racials enhance the Magic part of Nightblade (It's not just an assassin)

I'm going to roll a Khajiit Nightblade TANK... that's right, Nightblade with Sword/Shield, Heavy armor, mostly Siphoning abilities. That's probably as nonviable as you can get, but I think I can make it work. Will also be picking up the secondary taunt ability from the Undaunted skill line.

[Zafire]

Well, as far as racials go, a Nord Nightblade is totally viable as well. As for Breton, the racials enhance the Magic part of Nightblade (It's not just an assassin)

Nords don't suit me though. They're mostly hardened warriors by lore, always preaching about "honor". That, and they seem to be one with cold weather, which is the complete opposite of me.

The fact Nightblades have a magical side was going to make me pick Breton. I would just feel far more comfortable being an Imperial if possible though XD

I don't RP or anything, I just like to get immersed.

[Champagne Supernova]

Just because you care doesn't mean it will mean anything in gameplay. Untill you can show that racials give you a strong advantage with the same class as a different race your arguments are pretty much worthless.

The number of people in WoW who roll a race for the racials is incredible small...small amount in pvp and in pve. I personally have not met a single person in WoW who chose a race for the stats. Animation and looks are the 2 biggest factors. Aside from lore that is.

Believe Racial ability takes up the ultimate slot key anyway, Racial skills are situational use at best, I.E Mana/Health regen/CC or Summon guardians. You'd want to use the Class ultimate's instead which provide benefits not just to you but your allies as well. Think of them as GW2's racial skills, saw little to no use compared to class skill points.

[Deleted]

If WoW had a racial with 4% flat damage to magic, every single caster in a serious progression guild would be an Altmer. But that's because the only path to top-end gear in WoW is small-scale competitive PvP and very difficult raids where a small % shift in DPS can make a significant difference.

ESO has given no indication that it will have the same progression path as WoW. A game with casual raids and large-scale PvP has a lot more flexibility when it comes to racials (and many other balance issues) simply because the microscope doesn't need to be as finely tuned.

No combat log or damage indications. It's still possible to min max, but it's close to impossible to see weither any changes you made would make a difference.

I haven't looked into weither you can reset your skillset, but I doubt it. If you want to min max you'd have to start a new char every time.

- - - Updated - - -

Believe Racial ability takes up the ultimate slot key anyway, Racial skills are situational use at best, I.E Mana/Health regen/CC or Summon guardians. You'd want to use the Class ultimate's instead which provide benefits not just to you but your allies as well. Think of them as GW2's racial skills, saw little to no use compared to class skill points.

There is no racial ability, only racial passives. Unless my game is broken as I'm looking at my racial skills right now.

[Deleted]

well tbh I would gladly pay 20 euros for new race (duh, they are just humans) then 20 euros for some mount I will ride few times in WoW.

[Skulltaker]

Math fail.

You cant have 100% of the game, then 100% + extra, because that "100% + extra" is now the 100%. So what you get is either Imp edition with 100% of the game, or standard with 100% minus the "extra".

You are wrong an right. It's a matter of perception, I'll give you that. From a mathematical point of view of course it's wron. It was an abstract example to show that it comes down to perception. But the Imperial Edition is not 'the game'. The standard edition is the game. That's what the dev's promised. CE is what they promised, and a bonus. Of course you can never have more then 100 percent, I was trying to point out how they never promised anything that they didn't deliver. (in the last few months, that is - i haven't followed the game until recently, so I have no idea what features were scrapped earlier.)