Ursol Vortex [Bug or another nerf?!]..didn´t listed yet

[Deleted]

Hey there,

a few minutes ago I logged in, started doing some quests, pulled 4 mob and used Ursol´s Vortex to push em back.

First I thought the vortex dont work, then I noticed the knock back to the middle is triggered right at the outside edge of the animation. I didnt saw something about that in patch notes? Did someone?
The cooldown nerf is not justified with this new Vortex mechanic!!

Here is the old one:
youtube(.)com/watch?v=xId3Ij8N-nM
The one who´s the reason for the duration and cooldown nerf

[Sunfyre]

Hey there,

a few minutes ago I logged in, started doing some quests, pulled 4 mob and used Ursol´s Vortex to push em back.

First I thought the vortex dont work, then I noticed the knock back to the middle is triggered right at the outside edge of the animation. I didnt saw something about that in patch notes? Did someone?
The cooldown nerf is not justified with this new Vortex mechanic!!

Here is the old one:
youtube(.)com/watch?v=xId3Ij8N-nM
The one who´s the reason for the duration and cooldown nerf

I'm pretty sure the fact that they could get 30 yards out of the animation before the leash, such as it was in prior builds, is the bug. It should leash once you leave the actual vortex.

[Mudkiper]

I'm pretty sure the fact that they could get 30 yards out of the animation before the leash, such as it was in prior builds, is the bug. It should leash once you leave the actual vortex.

What he said

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure the fact that they could get 30 yards out of the animation before the leash, such as it was in prior builds, is the bug. It should leash once you leave the actual vortex.

but the nerf was for the old vortex, that was just to op, not for the new one. You know what I mean?

[Sunfyre]

but the nerf was for the old vortex, that was just to op, not for the new one. You know what I mean?

The nerf had nothing to do with where the leash started at. It had to do with the fact that Vortex had 50% up time. Nerfing the cooldown and the duration to give it a 16.67% uptime is a bit extreme, but again, wasn't to do with the buggy mechanics of the Vortex.

[stormgust]

The nerf had nothing to do with where the leash started at. It had to do with the fact that Vortex had 50% up time. Nerfing the cooldown and the duration to give it a 16.67% uptime is a bit extreme, but again, wasn't to do with the buggy mechanics of the Vortex.

With the pullback fixed, Vortex just like a weaker version of Frosttrap. The pullback is negligible(at most 4 yards), the cooldown is higher and the radius smaller.
Just that Frostnova is a class ability, whereas ours is a talent. Though - at least now it blends well into all those other "copied form other classes base abilities" design our talent tree seems to follow.

edit:

In PvP the pullback obviously still will have it's uses vs. teleport mechanics, but then: Bash seems superior to this...

[Juvencus]

With the pullback fixed, Vortex just like a weaker version of Frosttrap. The pullback is negligible(at most 4 yards), the cooldown is higher and the radius smaller.
Just that Frostnova is a class ability, whereas ours is a talent. Though - at least now it blends well into all those other "copied form other classes base abilities" design our talent tree seems to follow.

edit:

In PvP the pullback obviously still will have it's uses vs. teleport mechanics, but then: Bash seems superior to this...

Just because the pullback is more responsive, it doesn't mean it won't pull back a blinking mage etc. The short distance (which used to be big) is the minimum, not the maximum pull range.

[Sunfyre]

edit:

In PvP the pullback obviously still will have it's uses vs. teleport mechanics, but then: Bash seems superior to this...

Bash, which requires melee range. Ursol's can be dropped before someone even gets to you. I can't see any caster desire bash over this. Ursol's Vortex combined with the Faerie Swarm snare is pretty amazing. As a moonkin, tossing in a Wild Charge backwards, and you can kite for days.

[Deleted]

The nerf had nothing to do with where the leash started at. It had to do with the fact that Vortex had 50% up time. Nerfing the cooldown and the duration to give it a 16.67% uptime is a bit extreme, but again, wasn't to do with the buggy mechanics of the Vortex.

of course it had to do with where the knock back start at because it was to far away from the centre and combined to the cooldown and duration it had to be nerfed, yes. But not twice even if the 2nd one was no nerf in the sense of one. I think they nerfed a buggy vortex, not the fixed one! If there wouldn't was a buggy vortex, it never would be nerfed like that.

Ursols Vortex is now just a little better version of Taifun, nothing more.. on a much longer cooldown.

[Sunfyre]

of course it had to do with where the knock back start at because it was to far away from the centre and combined to the cooldown and duration it had to be nerfed, yes. But not twice even if the 2nd one was no nerf in the sense of one. I think they nerfed a buggy vortex, not the fixed one! If there wouldn't was a buggy vortex, it never would be nerfed like that.

Ursols Vortex is now just a little better version of Taifun, nothing more.. on a much longer cooldown.

You can continue to think that, but as you've already noticed in this thread I'll doubt you'll get many people to agree with you.

I'm also glad the leash starts as soon as they step out. You drop vortex on a healer, solar beam them, then run out, get kited back in, run back out, straight into a cyclone. That's a lot of CC on a healer.

[Deleted]

Vortex + solar beam is going to be an insanely OP combination, any class susceptible to silences, is effectively nuted for 10seconds! Unfortunately that will cause it to get nerfed when used together

[Deleted]

Vortex + solar beam is going to be an insanely OP combination, any class susceptible to silences, is effectively nuted for 10seconds! Unfortunately that will cause it to get nerfed when used together

I'm not sure why this is insanely OP.

Compare it to a warlock: instant fear on a 5 second cooldown - lasts 8 seconds, CCs any class.
Mage/Lock CS: 7 second lockout on cast, 24 second CD.
Moonkin: 1.3 second cast for roots, and then 2x 1 minute CD moves (Vortex/Beam), overall resulting in a 10 second CC.

Mage or a lock can just do blanket silence to Poly/Fear, which is a 12 second CC on a 24 second cooldown.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure why this is insanely OP.

Compare it to a warlock: instant fear on a 5 second cooldown - lasts 8 seconds, CCs any class.
Mage/Lock CS: 7 second lockout on cast, 24 second CD.
Moonkin: 1.3 second cast for roots, and then 2x 1 minute CD moves (Vortex/Beam), overall resulting in a 10 second CC.

Mage or a lock can just do blanket silence to Poly/Fear, which is a 12 second CC on a 24 second cooldown.

mage/lock silence is 3seconds blanket and a further 3 seconds lockout if it interrupts, Fear is only instant if it costs 10% of your health. Poly... is poly, nothing new there apart from their new talents.

Fear/poly get broken on damage (fear not so much but any 20k+ hit will do it) and both can be dispelled/trinketed - Vortex+solar beam would equal 10seconds of free reign on the enemy, the only thing that I think could possibly break it is a life grip from a priest and a paladin bubble.

oh yeah, your maths sucks. Roots, cyclone, sleep, vortex, solar beam = somewhat more than 10seconds!

My main point was that the combination was unbreakable & more or less unavoidable. Vortex will also be great with other class specials; Smokebomb comes to mind!

[Deleted]

mage/lock silence is 3seconds blanket and a further 3 seconds lockout if it interrupts, Fear is only instant if it costs 10% of your health. Poly... is poly, nothing new there apart from their new talents.

Fear/poly get broken on damage (fear not so much but any 20k+ hit will do it) and both can be dispelled/trinketed - Vortex+solar beam would equal 10seconds of free reign on the enemy, the only thing that I think could possibly break it is a life grip from a priest and a paladin bubble.

oh yeah, your maths sucks. Roots, cyclone, sleep, vortex, solar beam = somewhat more than 10seconds!

My main point was that the combination was unbreakable & more or less unavoidable. Vortex will also be great with other class specials; Smokebomb comes to mind!

Unless it's changed in MoP, CS is 4 seconds +3 on cast.

In the new Beta build (so I'm told) fear is instant, no hp cost, 5 second CD.

Also, vortex only pulls you back once. So Beam+Vortex without roots is about a 4 second silence. Also if you use it WITH roots it can also be removed by a ret/hunter/druid giving freedom/MC/stampeding roar to the afflicted target. (not to mention mass dispel, though that applies to fear as well)

"Roots, cyclone, sleep, vortex, solar beam = somewhat more than 10seconds!" - Without using nature's swiftness (another cooldown), no good player will be caught by sleep. Roots does not (always) CC a caster. Cyclone is good, yes - but we weren't discussing "what would happen if a boomkin could freecast CC on someone for an entire arena game".


If we compare instant fear + blanket (3 second) silence from warlocks, (remember roots breaks on damage too), I think there isn't much OP about the vortex beam combo on a 1 minute cooldown.

EDIT: Also, I dislike the idea of having to use 2 cooldowns at once for either to be effective. A cooldown should be effective on its own. I already dislike how beam requires roots to be effective.

[Deleted]

It's easily possible to get a feral in a sleep if he's focused on something else, and the talented fear for warlocks is 'Blood fear' costs 10% of total HP and has a 5second CD, more than balanced I think.

My apologies I hadnt realised Vortex only pulled you back once, it's certainly not OP in my books anymore! I've just had a muck about on the Beta and I can safely say I will be using the 3sec AE disorient over the Vortex.

On topic though, as of right now the Vortex seems to be working as stated in the tooltip on the Beta, pulls the target back about a foot outside the animation

[Deleted]

It's easily possible to get a feral in a sleep if he's focused on something else, and the talented fear for warlocks is 'Blood fear' costs 10% of total HP and has a 5second CD, more than balanced I think.

My apologies I hadnt realised Vortex only pulled you back once, it's certainly not OP in my books anymore! I've just had a muck about on the Beta and I can safely say I will be using the 3sec AE disorient over the Vortex.

On topic though, as of right now the Vortex seems to be working as stated in the tooltip on the Beta, pulls the target back about a foot outside the animation

On sleep - I play feral, and I never get hibernated, it doesn't take a global to cancelform. My UI goes crazy when people are casting hibernate/fear beast.

On fear - I didn't say it wasn't balanced (I really don't think it is though :P) I was just comparing it to beam.

The 3 second disorient would be great if it didn't break on your own dots.