Do You Think SWTOR Will Go Free To Play, and If So, In Which Year?

[A Challenger!]

While legacy is something I could see other MMO's add (and wow is starting with account wide mounts,pets and stuff as well, so theymight go with it too), I wouldn't really call companions an extra feature. It's not going to become a must-have for mmo's, since it's a playstyle not everyone likes. They basically made every class a pet class for levelling.

SWTOR definitely misses some important QoL features that every WoW-style MMO should have (automated dungeon finder with cross server options being one,dual spec being another) and sure they might add it. But it's been nearly half a year, and they have lost a LOT of subs, some of which (including me) because of the lack of QoL stuff.

It's certainly not a bad game, far from it. It should, however, not have been released in the state it was in.

Yeah, I too thought I was stretching it with companions, and while I do not feel the features listed are essential, they are creative features none the less and while they may not be necessary for me to play, they have become a staple for many a player.

Lastly, I agree; while bugs are acceptable during any launch, Legacy was, in their words, "the meat" of SWTOR. It is not as problematic to me as much as it is to others, I can still see and understand how not including such an important feature at launch is a cause for concern.

It remains to be seen if SWTOR can pull itself from this pitfall, or if Guild Wars 2 will fall into the same ant lions den, but we shall see in due time.

[Deleted]

SWTOR will not go Free to Play anytime soon. Thinking different is only wishful thinking of people that either is to cheap to play subscription or people that really want to gloat about SWTOR/Bioware/EA failure.

As long as there is more than 500K paying subscribers it would be economic suicide to go Free to Play, and the core player base are to big for us to see thoose numbers anytime soon.

[Deleted]

hmm nah not likely anytime soon.

Its shedding the mmo hoppers and the people looking for the next big life altering mmo, who'll keep moving and moving, it'll stabilise about 750-1million people once they find their standard audience and then just keep on rolling like rift, pumping out the content.

I dont see it ever increasing too much(unless they do something revolutionary..but i doubt it) because i dont think you'll ever get those high sort of numbers again(WoW numbers), too much choice, too much compeition will keep the playerbase spread IMO.

[Zhira]

That's such an illogical argument. WoW came out in 2004, it didn't need to have as many features as an MMO coming out in 2011 does. Keep in mind that SWTOR also had a much larger budget, and gets to ride the Star Wars IP which is a lot more popular than... well, pretty much anything

Actually, my argument is very valid. Not having many features is NOT a technical issue, WoW is basicly is same core engine as it was in 2004. Apart from that - from the VERY beginning of WoW there was a player demand for grouped banking (later guildbank), an instance pairing tool (later LFD) and last but not least armour customizing options.... and we all know they arrived years later.

So I stand on the point that it's all about releasing features in a steadily pace.

I will not argue that a guildbank and LFD tool should be standard from the beginning of every MMO.

Z.

[BenBos]

There is CLEARLY a miscommunication here then, because all I was saying was that coming out in 2004, WoW is not exempt from lacking features; as one is never too late or too early to innovate. In place of innovation, WoW merely tweaked the Everquest model.

That was it.

Also, I hate to be a nitpick, but WoW had the bare minimum of features during release, while SWTOR at least has Legacy and companions. SWTOR has more features when you compare the two. I am absolutely not defending SWTOR in the least, just making an observation, to prevent further miscommunication, because that was just.... Crazy.

Quick EDIT: I am not doubting Activision-Blizzards business ethic, Blizzard alone always had a fierce business ethic, and that was proven by them turning the Everquest model, which was... Very rough around the edges, into something casual. Blizzard effectively brought the MMO market to the mainstream audiences of the world.

That is what brought Blizzard their tremendous success, if anything.

Blizzard brings ALL markets to the mainstream audiances. They certainly did it with WC rts, with SC1, with WOW.

I am convinced they will redo it again with Diablo 3 as it is a new kind of on line game on steroids (new not in theme but in being internet connected and 2012 grouping with a RMAH to sell things.)

The difference between Blizzard and any other software production house is that they STILL publish their own games.

Activision is never mentioned on a Blizzard game box. Just look it up.

The consequence is that Blizzard is BOSS of its own development cycle. It is difficult to maintain these days with the pressure of stocks being rated and the internet going crazy about anything, but they still manage to ... take their time.

Some sources on the web mentioned a reign of fear among SWW TOR and its project. I guess that's the difference.

Also... I BLAME the mmo forums. 99.9% of these posters here have no clue at all in game development and they spew nonsense all the time. Like "community", hollow vocabulary like "sandbox", "cross server play kills..." etc ...

The fact of the matter is that SW TOR launched with 2005 tools in a 2012 market. Having no cross server play was a mistake. Having no automated server tools to transfer players was a mistake. Having no decently developped LFG tool was a mistake.

You can't sell a 2005 Cell Phone in a 2012 communcation market.

[jvbastel]

Yeah, I too thought I was stretching it with companions, and while I do not feel the features listed are essential, they are creative features none the less and while they may not be necessary for me to play, they have become a staple for many a player.

Lastly, I agree; while bugs are acceptable during any launch, Legacy was, in their words, "the meat" of SWTOR. It is not as problematic to me as much as it is to others, I can still see and understand how not including such an important feature at launch is a cause for concern.

It remains to be seen if SWTOR can pull itself from this pitfall, or if Guild Wars 2 will fall into the same ant lions den, but we shall see in due time.

the legacy thing is indeed quite creative (although from what little time I fiddled around with it during the free "please come back" week, the UI felt pretty awkward.) There's a lot of fun stuff they can do with it though, and I'll be keeping my eye on it even if I won't play the game.

I played GW1 a lot, which also had companions, which is probably why I wasn't really excited for it (in fact GW1 had a lot more customization for its heroes).

Legacy not being released at launch was one of the biggest disappointments I had with SWTOR. It's the feature I was most looking forward to, and it was also the biggest indicator of the game just not being ready for launch.
They did quite some hyping for it, as well.

In general, though, I think people overreact, as usual. 400K losses is not that much. Not everyone who buys it is going to keep playing, especially since a lot of KOTOR fans will enjoy single player games more.

I think financially, the game would be better off f2p/b2p with a cash shop selling cosmetic/QoL items like GW2 and DLC's like DCUO. But that's not an option shortly after launch, and would be a very bad marketing move now. I would play it again, though.

[A Challenger!]

The fact of the matter is that SW TOR launched with 2005 tools in a 2012 market. Having no cross server play was a mistake. Having no automated server tools to transfer players was a mistake. Having no decently developped LFG tool was a mistake.

You can't sell a 2005 Cell Phone in a 2012 communcation market.

Blizzard copied the Everquest model and made very few changes with the idea in mind that if they did this, they could turn a niche genre into something mainstream. You are telling me that is acceptable, that Blizzard can do such a thing, but SWTOR can not, even IF SWTOR did or did not do such a thing?

That is a logical fallacy; it is never too soon to innovate, and both SWTOR and WoW are very much guilty of this. SWTOR is not a failure of a game because it "lacks features", it just does not do anything incredible for the genre. It is still very much a "good" game.

---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 04:36 AM ----------

the legacy thing is indeed quite creative (although from what little time I fiddled around with it during the free "please come back" week, the UI felt pretty awkward.) There's a lot of fun stuff they can do with it though, and I'll be keeping my eye on it even if I won't play the game.

I played GW1 a lot, which also had companions, which is probably why I wasn't really excited for it (in fact GW1 had a lot more customization for its heroes).

Legacy not being released at launch was one of the biggest disappointments I had with SWTOR. It's the feature I was most looking forward to, and it was also the biggest indicator of the game just not being ready for launch.
They did quite some hyping for it, as well.

In general, though, I think people overreact, as usual. 400K losses is not that much. Not everyone who buys it is going to keep playing, especially since a lot of KOTOR fans will enjoy single player games more.

I think financially, the game would be better off f2p/b2p with a cash shop selling cosmetic/QoL items like GW2 and DLC's like DCUO. But that's not an option shortly after launch, and would be a very bad marketing move now. I would play it again, though.

Blizzard lost one million within the time it took BioWare to lose 400k; and the result is the same between the two fanatical groups: "My game is fine! SWTOR is the one in danger!" "My game is fine! WoW is the one in danger!"

Profit lost is still profit lost.

On a slightly off-topic note, I really was hoping, no matter how deep down that hope was, that they would "revive" SWG, so to speak. SWG and, if you will bear with me, FFXI, are the two games I hold the fondest memories of.

[BenBos]

Blizzard copied the Everquest model and made very few changes with the idea in mind that if they did this, they could turn a niche genre into something mainstream. You are telling me that is acceptable, that Blizzard can do such a thing, but SWTOR can not, even IF SWTOR did that?

That is a logical fallacy; it is never too soon to innovate, and both SWTOR and WoW are very much guilty of this. SWTOR is not a failure of a game because it "lacks features", it just does not do anything incredible for the genre. It is still very much a "good" game.

There is a HUGE difference between a model and copying.

EQ1 had no questing system like Blizzard developped. You grinded 95% in EQ1 of the time. Did you even play EQ1 ? It was solo unfriendly too.

EQ1 didn't have BG's, they didn't have the same kind of instanced dungeons and "protected" raids.

I don't remember a badge system, I certainly did not see cross server play in good ol' EQ1.

Also the world design was zoned in EQ1..

Need I go on ? In fact did you even play EQ1 ?

[Teasy]

As unfortunate as it may be, I think they needed WAY more firepower to release this game as P2P. Such epic genre, and yet it feels dull, like a rusty axe. My guess is, by the time they realise they can make way more money out of item shop and turning F2P, the game won't be wroth going back for, just as it was with Star Wars: Galaxies.

I'd say F2P in 2013.

[rejer13]

Free to play is only makeing the game more excpensive...

[jvbastel]

Blizzard lost one million within the time it took BioWare to lose 400k; and the result is the same between the two fanatical groups: "My game is fine! SWTOR is the one in danger!" "My game is fine! WoW is the one in danger!"

Profit lost is still profit lost.

On a slightly off-topic note, I really was hoping, no matter how deep down that hope was, that they would "revive" SWG, so to speak. SWG and, if you will bear with me, FFXI, are the two games I hold the fondest memories of.

Well both the wow defenders and swtor defenders are correct that their game is fine, though. Both are still profiting from subs and will for a decent amount of time. Sure SWTOR didn't turn out as big as people expected it to. I myself thought they'ld have around 2-2.5 mill concurrent subs. For the consumer, it should make little difference, though. (unless they take forever to merge servers and enable cross server play)

I don't know how either games will evolve in the future, and I'm not in a position to make a valid prediction, but I'ld say the consumers will be able to enjoy their game for years to come.

As for SWG, yes it's a shame what happened to it. It's pretty obvious that it got shut down because of SWTOR, which is a slap in the face for both the developers and players. The games are so different that they wouldn't even have affected each other.

I know there's some private servers out there, and I hope the SWG players can still get their fun.

[A Challenger!]

There is a HUGE difference between a model and copying.

EQ1 had no questing system like Blizzard developped. You grinded 95% in EQ1 of the time. Did you even play EQ1 ? It was solo unfriendly too.

EQ1 didn't have BG's, they didn't have the same kind of instanced dungeons and "protected" raids.

I don't remember a badge system, I certainly did not see cross server play in good ol' EQ1.

Also the world design was zoned in EQ1..

Need I go on ? In fact did you even play EQ1 ?

Did you even play classic WoW? There was no badge system for one, or cross server play. While you also grinded, there WERE quests in place, as well as dungeons; just because dungeons were not instanced, and there was a grind due to few quests being in place, does not mean that the system is not there. Lastly, the world was not zoned like you think it was; it was more akin to how WoW split Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, than zoned like SWG.

The only possible "point" you could have, is the battle grounds, but even then, that only proves MY point that Blizzard made Everquest main stream by copying the existing archetype, and making it friendlier for people who did not wish to play something so niche.

Put down your subjective thinking for two seconds and realize WoW is as guilty as SWTOR is.

---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 04:56 AM ----------

As for SWG, yes it's a shame what happened to it. It's pretty obvious that it got shut down because of SWTOR, which is a slap in the face for both the developers and players. The games are so different that they wouldn't even have affected each other.

I know there's some private servers out there, and I hope the SWG players can still get their fun.

I more of like to think it was due to that the NGE and such that put the dagger in SWG's beating heart; it just took time for the game to finally succumb to its grievous injuries.

[jvbastel]

Why is this F2P option always coming up.

On second thoughts..F2P games DO make loads of money, but not least by selling items that give an IN game advantage. Be bloody grateful that there are P2P games. I was shocked to read some ppl have blown over 300 Dollars a month in LoL...

Most respected f2p games don't sell p2w things, only convenience items, account upgrades and cosmetic stuff. In fact, some account services wow offers are pretty borderline as well, and that's a p2p game.

For example, back when I was young and naive (well actually I was 20 and just stupid) I bought a second account, and so did a guildy, to boos each other with RAF, and both get the zhevra. Now If I want, I can send a SoR to my own account, get a insta level 80 with epic flying, and transfer it to my main account.

That's a lot of free levels with both raf and an insta-80.

They also charge for account services which could easily be free, and are actually free in a lot of f2p games. IIRC, server transfers in DCUO are free and instant. Same in GW2, which even allows you to switch between regions altogether.

f2p games might still have a bad name among the p2p mmo-crowd but with a bit of research you'll see most of them are very decent.

[soulcrusher]

i wish GW2 would hurry and launch so the trolls could jump all over that and flame it into oblivion thus leaving us to enjoy the games we love.

[jvbastel]

i wish GW2 would hurry and launch so the trolls could jump all over that and flame it into oblivion thus leaving us to enjoy the games we love.

Don't worry, they'll be asking for a dungeon finder for it soon enough

[Deleted]

i wish GW2 would hurry and launch so the trolls could jump all over that and flame it into oblivion thus leaving us to enjoy the games we love.

Its okay blizzards subscriber numbers are out like tomorrow, hopefully some of the trolls will migrate to there to fight the "subs are down your game sucks" battle.

[soulcrusher]

not really Det, im not interested in flaming game X or Y. Im not a hater, if i dont like a game I move on rather than flaming the crap out it on web forums.

[Tekkommo]

No, what's peoples obsession on these forums about a game going F2P?

It still has over 1 mil subs, that's more than enough.

I think it will drop to 800k subs and stay at that margin for a while. Whether it increases or depends on how the bug fixing and content goes.

[Azuri]

Lets not start threads that will just end in non-constructive discussions.