Some Ideas to Improve the Talents

[Vuagnon]

Glyph of Prismatic Vengeance: Your Holy Prism also imprisons hostile targets, preventing them from performing any actions for 2 sec.


Long Arm of the Law: A successful Judgment binds you with your target, forcing both to run at each other with 45% increased movement speed for 3 sec.


Burden of Guilt – 6 sec cooldown, 30 yd range, 3.5% base mana

Fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 60% for 12 sec.


Comment if you like.

[Malthanis]

Glyph of Prismatic Vengeance: Your Holy Prism also imprisons hostile targets, preventing them from performing any actions for 2 sec.

Interesting, but ultimately out of place. This would alter the purpose of the level 90 talents (which I think is damage and healing wrapped in to one ability), and that kind of throws off the whole design scheme that they're going for.

Long Arm of the Law: A successful Judgment binds you with your target, forcing both to run at each other with 45% increased movement speed for 3 sec.

Another interesting one, but too powerful. It would also have some serious ramifications when combined with any knockback, Death Grip, or Leap of Faith. The only way it would remain balanced is if Judgment had a CD similar to Death Grip (and that would cause a whole new set of issues).

Burden of Guilt – 6 sec cooldown, 30 yd range, 3.5% base mana

Fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 60% for 12 sec.

I'm curious about this. Why would you want to remove it from Judgment? Also, a slow of that caliber could not exist. Twelve seconds is far too long for an instant cast, especially if it retains the 60% slow and the range.

[Vuagnon]

The reason why I'd like to see the snare removed from Judgment is because the spell is already loaded with too many secondary effects. Binding this much effect just to one spell could create balance problems because of its short cooldown. You have mostly valid points though. I think I'll reconsider my ideas for cc and mobility. As a side note though, I should say that in comparison to other classes, Ret will still likely not have sufficient cc capabilities in MoP.

[Deleted]

Glyph of Prismatic Vengeance: Your Holy Prism also imprisons hostile targets, preventing them from performing any actions for 2 sec.

This is a great idea, but since Holy Prism is a heal and damage spell already it would need balancing with that glyph. Like remove the damage/heal effects and make it like that you can't move in/out or cast spells from inside out or otherway around. With a duration like 3-4sec.

[Malthanis]

The reason why I'd like to see the snare removed from Judgment is because the spell is already loaded with too many secondary effects. Binding this much effect just to one spell could create balance problems because of its short cooldown. You have mostly valid points though. I think I'll reconsider my ideas for cc and mobility. As a side note though, I should say that in comparison to other classes, Ret will still likely not have sufficient cc capabilities in MoP.

How 'overloaded' is Judgment, really? It generates Holy Power for Prot and Ret, and it's not affected by your active Seal anymore. The only additional affects that I can see would be 'Long Arm of the Law' and 'Burden of Guilt'. Both of which are choices, so you don't have to have them. But even if you do take both, it won't feel like it overloads Judgment because of how well they work together.

Also, what do you mean by insufficient CC capabilities? We've classically not had much in the way of CC, and we still do relatively well.

[Fhi]

How 'overloaded' is Judgment, really? It generates Holy Power for Prot and Ret, and it's not affected by your active Seal anymore. The only additional affects that I can see would be 'Long Arm of the Law' and 'Burden of Guilt'. Both of which are choices, so you don't have to have them. But even if you do take both, it won't feel like it overloads Judgment because of how well they work together.

Don't forget Selfless Healer too. Granted, you have to pick all three talents, but it does make judgement perform too many secondary effects. Not that it's a 'problem' per se (at least not yet), but I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Valedus]

Glyph of Prismatic Vengeance: Your Holy Prism also imprisons hostile targets, preventing them from performing any actions for 2 sec.


Long Arm of the Law: A successful Judgment binds you with your target, forcing both to run at each other with 45% increased movement speed for 3 sec.


Burden of Guilt – 6 sec cooldown, 30 yd range, 3.5% base mana

Fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 60% for 12 sec.


Comment if you like.

I like that BoG isn't its own ability because it does not waste a GCD that we can use doing damage.
First glyph has no downside and no choice... anyone taking Holy Prism would pick it up. Too good.
And that is a REALLY unnecessary LAOTL buff, and would pretty much just become a 6 sec cooldown Death Grip. Waaaay too good.

---------- Post added 2012-05-10 at 02:08 PM ----------

The reason why I'd like to see the snare removed from Judgment is because the spell is already loaded with too many secondary effects. Binding this much effect just to one spell could create balance problems because of its short cooldown. You have mostly valid points though. I think I'll reconsider my ideas for cc and mobility. As a side note though, I should say that in comparison to other classes, Ret will still likely not have sufficient cc capabilities in MoP.

Still don't understand why people keep saying too much is bound into it.
If you do not have LAOTL and BoG, all judgement does is create Holy Power.
If you have LAOTL, its a small sprint.
If you have both, its a sprint that makes it VERY easy to reach our target and stay on them.
Those are the only two talents/skills that have anything to do with judgement.

And... if you think we do not have sufficient CC abilities... grab Fist of OMGWTF 30 sec cd 30 yd ranged stun or Sheepentance.
Personally, if Ret went live the way it is right now, I'm pretty sure we would see Ret being one of the very top PvP classes.

---------- Post added 2012-05-10 at 02:11 PM ----------

Don't forget Selfless Healer too. Granted, you have to pick all three talents, but it does make judgement perform too many secondary effects. Not that it's a 'problem' per se (at least not yet), but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Ah forgot Selfless, either way... These are all choices. Ultimately, I just see Judgement as the new gap closer (as I will probably go BoG/LAOTL) with Selfless Healer as added utility.

[Vuagnon]

This is a great idea, but since Holy Prism is a heal and damage spell already it would need balancing with that glyph. Like remove the damage/heal effects and make it like that you can't move in/out or cast spells from inside out or otherway around. With a duration like 3-4sec.

I think I should have said that only the primary hostile target is imprisoned (If you use it on an enemy). Otherwise the idea would clash with the purpose/design of Holy Prism.

About Judgment being overloaded, I need to say that the choices which modify Judgment look tempting enough for Rets to have a PvP build purely based on it in. A Judgment spec that is very likely to be favored by many Rets will load at least 3 different secondary effects on Judgment. Sprint, instant heal and snare. I'm not sure if this is a good design philosophy or not.