The Math and Science Initiative; leaving English in the dust?

[Shammyspice]

I think it's great The United States is focused on the promotion of math/science/technology education and teachers, but what about English/History/Reading teachers? Are they not also just as important as science/math/tech is? How come there's no English Initiative? Especially when many young people have a hard time with correct spelling, punctuation, paragraph structure, penmanship, etc...due to texting/shorthand/computer spell checks. Even though most everything has converted to computers/the internet, I still say having a strong grasp on English skills is just as important as math/science skills.

While I completely support any and all education, I'm a little disappointed that any teacher who is not a math/science teacher is pretty much getting the shaft as far as media promotion goes. =/

[Lothaeryn]

I think there are two reasons why English isnt as highly regarded in education:

1.) The English Language is for the most part a static and slowly changing topic of study, very little happens to warrant much need to learn about it. Compared to math and sciences, both of those fields advance at exponential rates every decade, and people need to keep learning over and over every time new technology arises and replaces the old, and as such, is more highly valuable and important in the priority list. Whereas English will only have changes when there are cultural shifts that warrant the incorporation of a new word, or the removal of one.

2.) Learning about the arts and languages encourages expression and individuality, and in a time where companies are trying to kill off individuality for efficient, hard working and thoughtless employees who don't do anything but what they are told, English and arts are being disregarded to help promote that mindless drone mentality in future generations.

[Deleted]

Grammar should probably be there, but useless subjects like history and literature should not have a place in school teaching programmes. Just my own two cents.

[Malcho]

That's okay.

Less English means less ways to string words and sentences into deceptive patterns, necessitating actual fact, which is derived from experimentation and proof. Brilliant!

[Klutzington]

I think it's great our country is focused on the promotion of math/science/technology education and teachers, but what about English/History/Reading teachers? Are they not also just as important as science/math/tech is? How come there's no English Initiative? Especially when many young people have a hard time with correct spelling, punctuation, paragraph structure, penmanship, etc...due to texting/shorthand/computer spell checks. Even though most everything has converted to computers/the internet, I still say having a strong grasp on English skills is just as important as math/science skills.

While I completely support any and all education, I'm a little disappointed that any teacher who is not a math/science teacher is pretty much getting the shaft as far as media promotion goes. =/

I don't know if it's just me. . . but. . .

Living in the US, I always see colleagues who have trouble writing, hell, even SPEAKING. It annoys the crap out of me. I never understood why so many people in an ENGLISH speaking country couldn't grasp the concept of speaking/writing in ENGLISH by the time they graduated High School.

In my opinion, the US desperately needs to change its views from traditional education towards Mathematics and Science (of any kind) as a forefront, no longer promoting English as a major.

I find that being an English major is quite a waste of time. It might just be me, but I find English and History classes to be quite boring. How I see it. . . people should be taking Math/Science classes as well as major into them, while being able to be competent enough to write a thorough essay to pass said classes.

Upon a world scale (I think), the US doesn't even scale in the top 10 Math/Science guided countries. I'm sure the top 4 go to Asian countries.

TLDR: If teenagers want to keep being stupid and fail to further the US's progression into pertinent fields, let them. I'd rather them out of the gene pool. =/

THIS IS MY OPINION. I AM NOT BASHING OTHER PEOPLE. I AM EXPRESSING MY THOUGHTS.

[Kzilla]

Math and Science education is out-pacing the rest? Good. The sooner I get my jetpack the better.

A little more participation on the part of the parent(s) goes a long way. You get what you put in.

An even bigger case could be made against sports, because those are fucking productive careers...

[eriseis]

I think it's great our country is focused on the promotion of math/science/technology education and teachers, but what about English/History/Reading teachers? Are they not also just as important as science/math/tech is? How come there's no English Initiative? Especially when many young people have a hard time with correct spelling, punctuation, paragraph structure, penmanship, etc...due to texting/shorthand/computer spell checks. Even though most everything has converted to computers/the internet, I still say having a strong grasp on English skills is just as important as math/science skills.

While I completely support any and all education, I'm a little disappointed that any teacher who is not a math/science teacher is pretty much getting the shaft as far as media promotion goes. =/

Let me summarize what this thread will be about:

1. People will claim humanities/liberal arts will be a waste of time.
2. People will point out how much money engineering majors and other tech fields make.
3. One or two people will say "well, that's why I'm going into law/medicine".
4. People will mention how college students feel entitled.

I may be missing a few.

My own opinion, for practicality purposes we don't need STEM as much as we need entrepreneurship, practical experience and analytical skills to become a stronger part in our education. A smart English major can launch a disruptive and lucrative product and there's no point in having 1000 smart monkeys instead of 1000 innovative engineers.

I think your spelling example is not appropriate (prescriptive grammar is not quite relevant), but I do think rhetoric and philosophy/logic should play a higher role. Even those two disciplines can provide a skillset with immediate chances of making money, for those who are skeptic about the disciplines. In themselves, the merit is that they teach you to execute innovative thinking (once you go past the bullshit-ness they can bring upon).

Alright, so let's go MMO-Champ community, let's bash those liberal arts majors and let's downplay what engineers and technical people do.

[Zstr]

Grammar should probably be there, but useless subjects like history and literature should not have a place in school teaching programmes. Just my own two cents.

this is wrong, literature and history educate person from within, developing speech, social aspects and diversity of human nature...

[Klutzington]

Let me summarize what this thread will be about:

1. People will claim humanities/liberal arts will be a waste of time.
2. People will point out how much money engineering majors and other tech fields make.
3. One or two people will say "well, that's why I'm going into law/medicine".
4. People will mention how college students feel entitled.

I may be missing a few.

My own opinion, for practicality purposes we don't need STEM as much as we need entrepreneurship, practical experience and analytical skills to become a stronger part in our education. A smart English major can launch a disruptive and lucrative product and there's no point in having 1000 smart monkeys instead of 1000 innovative engineers.

I think your spelling example is not appropriate (prescriptive grammar is not quite relevant), but I do think rhetoric and philosophy/logic should play a higher role. Even those two disciplines can provide a skillset with immediate chances of lucre, for those who are skeptic about the disciplines. In themselves, the merit is that they teach you to execute innovative thinking (once you go past the bullshit-ness they can bring upon).

Alright, so let's go MMO-Champ community, let's bash those liberal arts majors and let's downplay what engineers and technical people do.

Let me take a stab at it. You are some form of English/Literature/Liberal Arts major.

[Lumberjack]

I've been against History has a main class for a long time now. It really serves no purpose past a certain point in your adult life. The time should be spent elsewhere that would help kids adapt better to the world they live in. It is unfortunate that our school systems are so flawed and outdated.

[Grizzly Willy]

I don't know if it's just me. . . but. . .

Living in the US, I always see colleagues who have trouble writing, hell, even SPEAKING. It annoys the crap out of me. I never understood why so many people in an ENGLISH speaking country couldn't grasp the concept of speaking/writing in ENGLISH by the time they graduated High School.

In my opinion, the US desperately needs to change its views from traditional education towards Mathematics and Science (of any kind) as a forefront, no longer promoting English as a major.

I find that being an English major is quite a waste of time. It might just be me, but I find English and History classes to be quite boring. How I see it. . . people should be taking Math/Science classes as well as major into them, while being able to be competent enough to write a thorough essay to pass said classes.

Upon a world scale (I think), the US doesn't even scale in the top 10 Math/Science guided countries. I'm sure the top 4 go to Asian countries.

TLDR: If teenagers want to keep being stupid and fail to further the US's progression into pertinent fields, let them. I'd rather them out of the gene pool. =/

THIS IS MY OPINION. I AM NOT BASHING OTHER PEOPLE. I AM EXPRESSING MY THOUGHTS.

Calling me stupid for pursuing an English Major is, in fact, bashing. I'm sorry I couldn't wrap my head around computer programming. I'm sorry I'm not that great at math. I'm sorry my strength is in the written word. I'm sorry I'm pursuing something I want.

I'm sorry for being me, and making choices based off of what I am interested, instead of forcing myself into a field I am ill suited for.

[eriseis]

Let me take a stab at it. You are some form of English/Literature/Liberal Arts major.

Liberal arts. However, I worked as an analyst for a Silicon Valley firm and hang out with PhD's in engineering, accountants and programmers, so I've had enough exposure to both worlds.

I wanna make clear that I'm not bashing the more practical fields (practical in the sense of immediate income), but I do believe it's silly to put STEM in a pedestal when both STEM and liberal arts can coexist and actually help each other.

I mean, those computer programming behavioral psychologists at Facebook, Google, Amazon and Costco are making some nice cash.

[SynergyDarkstar]

I'm sorry for being me, and making choices based off of what I am interested, instead of forcing myself into a field I am ill suited for.

As long as you don't expect anyone else to pay off your student loans if you can't find a job with a degree that is objectively less marketable, you're forgiven.

:P

[Lothaeryn]

I've been against History has a main class for a long time now. It really serves no purpose past a certain point in your adult life. The time should be spent elsewhere that would help kids adapt better to the world they live in. It is unfortunate that our school systems are so flawed and outdated.

The point of history classes are to learn from the mistakes of the past, so society doesn't fuck up again and repeat it.

Not only that, its supposed to help give examples of what you can do that others have done in the past to be successful, so you can have better inspiration for the future.

It is nowhere near as useless as most people think, its just people are just asinine and moronic that they never learned anything because "OMG, jenny got a cute handbag" or "Tom made it on the team!" instead of learning how not to fuck yourself over like Napoleon did by stretching his resources thin.

[Shammyspice]

Grammar should probably be there, but useless subjects like history and literature should not have a place in school teaching programmes. Just my own two cents.

How is history and lit useless? History can teach us so many things about our current and future social/political issues. They should absolutely be part of our education system. It is extremely important to know and understand how history has shaped us as a country and what we can do to continue to prosper and evolve.
English/Lit...people should have a proper grasp of the English language, not just the language itself but writing/reading as well as critical and logical thinking.

[Schaden]

Grammar should probably be there, but useless subjects like history and literature should not have a place in school teaching programmes. Just my own two cents.

/sigh

History is damned important to us as a part of our cultural and political identity in the same way we need to understand the change of plant and animal species through evolution. It gives us context. It lets us understand how and why we have arrived to the political and economical scenarios we are currently in. Literature is damned important too because its also a founding block of our culture and history. The stores people write, how and why they write, all have meaning in understanding who and what we are.

[eriseis]

/sigh

History is damned important to us as a part of our cultural and political identity in the same way we need to understand the change of plant and animal species through evolution. It gives us context. It lets us understand how and why we have arrived to the political and economical scenarios we are currently in. Literature is damned important too because its also a founding block of our culture and history. The stores people write, how and why they write, all have meaning in understanding who and what we are.

I think the problem is when history is taught as a collection of facts when instead it can be taught in a way that makes students use critical thinking.

Who the fuck cares about the year when something happen when, instead, we can study its actual significance in the politics of today, for instance.

[Lothaeryn]

I think the problem is when history is taught as a collection of facts when instead it can be taught in a way that makes students use critical thinking.

Who the fuck cares about the year when something happen when, instead, we can study its actual significance in the politics of today, for instance.

I would love and enjoy every second of a class that used history in that manner.

Every time I had a history teacher that was good, they used it in a manner similar to this, and I could never get enough of those classes.

[Deleted]

Calling me stupid for pursuing an English Major is, in fact, bashing. I'm sorry I couldn't wrap my head around computer programming. I'm sorry I'm not that great at math. I'm sorry my strength is in the written word. I'm sorry I'm pursuing something I want.

I'm sorry for being me, and making choices based off of what I am interested, instead of forcing myself into a field I am ill suited for.

I'm really surprised how someone who is pursuing an English Major has this kind of reading level. The key word here being "I find".

Furthermore, how exactly are you gonna finance your study with this? Let alone if there would be even more people pursuing their English Major.

[Schaden]

I think the problem is when history is taught as a collection of facts when instead it can be taught in a way that makes students use critical thinking.

Who the fuck cares about the year when something happen when, instead, we can study its actual significance in the politics of today, for instance.

Bingo. We don't teach context and relevance, we teach fact and dates. The decline of history and literature, I think, is due to the way teachers are forced to teach - to an end of the year test where students will have to parrot back factoids they had been fed during the term. History and Lit are far too complex and intricate subjects to be able to effectively teach in such a manner. The sciences, however, can work within that system.