In theory,...

[Strafferen]

Now, I'm not awesome at math, and was wondering if it was possible to 10man raid a 25man zone already.
Naturally, some fights might require more players for some of the mechanics (Gatekeeper), but still ?

Assume 25man raidsize, and any type of gear released; and not a PuG.

How many players is needed to do Firelands 25man Normal? (Dps required vs. amount of players)
- In other words, can you, in theory, kill ... let's say mr. BigFuckingLegs, or Staghelm... with 10 people, in a 25man raid (perhaps on heroic) given the right setup?

[Chrno]

I stopped raiding a while agao, but we as a guild killed off a few Firlands bosses with only 15 people by the end of that patch.
So with BiS gear i'd say it's defo possible with 10 people to kill a few bosses

[Deleted]

Short answer: It depends. It depends on the guild and on the boss.

- Can a top world guild get 10 people decked out in legendaries and 408 iLvl and go back to 10man normal mode Ragnaros? Easily.
- Can a pretty good 10m guild get their roster (which is more likely to be 12-13) and go do normal Rag, or say, heroic Shannox? I think so yeah.
- Can an average 10m guild go do heroic Rag? Not at all.

It really depends on what we're talking about. Do you have a specific fight in mind? I'm sure normals will all be doable. Most of the heroics can be outskilled and outgeared in such a way that DPS numbers will be met even with 12-13 people. I highly doubt h Rag can be done by any less than ~13 decked out and experienced players who have already downed him in 25m multiple times.

[RandomGamer]

The DPS check for Ragnaros would be killing adds on transition phases and seeds spawns. How many seeds would spawn if there's only 10 players in the raid anyway? His overall enrage timer is ridiculous (the real enrage is the amount of meteors your raid can handle on p3).

I don't see Rag25h doable by 10 raiders, not on this xpac.

[Strafferen]

Thanks for the answers; and yeah, it was a question about wether or not you're able to beat the enrage-timers, with todays DPS. I guess shannox and Rhyolith would be doable, maybe Majordomo, in heroic 25man; with ~10-12 people. I was wondering if you could clear the zone with tops 15 players (I play in a 10m guild; Firelands is a bit mleh).

[kaamila]

my guild has been doing 25man bh with our 10man group for months now. im sure some of the bosses in FL are doable with 10 but definitely not all without meeting the enrage.

[RandomGamer]

Thanks for the answers; and yeah, it was a question about wether or not you're able to beat the enrage-timers, with todays DPS. I guess shannox and Rhyolith would be doable, maybe Majordomo, in heroic 25man; with ~10-12 people. I was wondering if you could clear the zone with tops 15 players (I play in a 10m guild; Firelands is a bit mleh).

I know content in Firelands was heavily nerfed, but wouldn't still be hard to down Rholyth25H before superheated ? Remember adds have way more health on 25m so it's not just DPSing the legs (Sparks have around 7 million health, fragments around 650k and obsidians around 450k - You do the math)

[Kardone]

How many seeds would spawn if there's only 10 players in the raid anyway?

I would assume the same amount as in 10m because I've noticed before during progression wipes that when a round of seeds goes out and there are a bunch of people dead it does 80% of the total players alive instead of a static number. (experience from 10m that is with like 6 people alive and getting 4 or 5 seeds) So seed damage wouldn't be too bad at all really.

[Kurzior]

For Firelands
Shannox - normal and heroic doable.
Alysrazor - normal doable, heroic maybe depending on dps
Rhyolith - normal doable, heroic depends on dps and healing
Beth'tilac - extremely difficult to control adds, normal mode questionable, not doable on heroic.
Bale'roc - likely impossible due to mechanics
Staghelm - with very good group, doable, he must be keep out of scorpion as much as possible (use heroic 10-man strategy for phasing)
Ragnaros - normal doable with good dps, heroic likely impossible due to soft-enrage

[Kardone]

Beth'tilac - extremely difficult to control adds, normal mode questionable, not doable on heroic.

Agreed that heroic would be seemingly impossible with all those broodlings. I don't think normal mode would be questionable however as you could easily just stack 3 hunters 1 at each spot to solo them while 1 dps goes upstairs and 1 works on drones I think it'd work

[Deleted]

Thanks for the answers; and yeah, it was a question about wether or not you're able to beat the enrage-timers, with todays DPS. I guess shannox and Rhyolith would be doable, maybe Majordomo, in heroic 25man; with ~10-12 people. I was wondering if you could clear the zone with tops 15 players (I play in a 10m guild; Firelands is a bit mleh).

With 15 players I'd say yes you can clear it on normal and do Shannox, Ryolith, Alysrazor and Domo on heroic.

You'd have to bring way less healers than regular strats but that'll be ok since there's less people taking damage anyway. You'd also need quite high DPS but with the nerfs and the DS gear it really shouldn't be that hard for an 8/8H DS guild to do it.

I think with practice and perfect execution Bael and Beth might be doable too, you'd probably have to not send anyone up top on Beth and just use your superior iLvl to power through the increased phase 2. On Bael it will be a matter of strict coordination with the reduced amount of players but in terms of pure DPS output there should be enough to beat enrage with 15 people. Remember that on top of the DS gear FL heroics were also nerfed hard.

[Deleted]

With 15 players I'd say yes you can clear it on normal and do Shannox, Ryolith, Alysrazor and Domo on heroic.

Don't you need more than 15 players to transform Domo into forms?

[Deleted]

Don't you need more than 15 players to transform Domo into forms?

Fair enough, you'd need 18 to do him on 25 heroic unless you can do some ridiculous burst damage with less.

[Carline]

Well I guess it doesn't really count, but we killed Alizabal (BH) in 25 player mode since second week of the DS patch with 10-13 players.

[Deleted]

Fair enough, you'd need 18 to do him on 25 heroic unless you can do some ridiculous burst damage with less.

and due to seed explosions you would need an aditional few to prevent acidental changes probably.

also with so few orbs would be incredibly painfull you would almosth have to go with a ranged dps only team to have enough soakers to juggle the stacks between or stack it with classes that can reset stacks -> hunters?

[Telanu]

and due to seed explosions you would need an aditional few to prevent acidental changes probably.

also with so few orbs would be incredibly painfull you would almosth have to go with a ranged dps only team to have enough soakers to juggle the stacks between or stack it with classes that can reset stacks -> hunters?

You wouldn't take an cleave, its just to reset the energy regen buff.