Need help evaluating raid DPS

[kittyb]

We're starting Heroic Blackhorn progression and I'm afraid our raid's dps will be an issue on this fight and then spine/madness. Just looking for some help on what toons need the most work. I quickly looked and I noticed a few need to do some reforging, but that's easily fixed. I'm mainly looking for rotation, build and any other major issues you notice. I realize I'm going to have to probably post in the specific class forums to get down to specifics, but I need to know the areas/toons to focus my efforts. I've linked our two most recent WOL's and armories for all the dps/tanks in the guild.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m0s117rrsg2wrqbr/

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qe1q79m6upfm3wzs/

Armories:

Kittyb (Prot/Arms): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ittyb/advanced
Zenob (Survival): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Zenob/advanced
Edust (Afflic/Destro): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Edust/advanced
Luhcifer (Combat): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cifer/advanced
Anville (Prot/Ret): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ville/advanced
Crewcio (Fire): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ewcio/advanced
Ages (Frost): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Ages/advanced
Doozys: (Survival): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oozys/advanced
Nakamura (Resto/Elemental): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...amura/advanced


Thanks in advance for your time and your help.

[kittyb]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gpyy3jhxh0208z36/

Blackhorn attempts from last night, definitely having trouble getting adds down. Had 1-2 melee up when goriana lands the few times we made it to phase 2.

[Blueobelisk]

Your Mage logged out in PVP gear so it's a little harder for me to judge him.

Are you tanking the adds by the drake to cleave them? Are you lusting on second set of adds?

I'll check mages rotation when I get to my laptop.

[Deja Thoris]

It's the ability to dps while doing other stuff that is messing you up.

Compare your ultraxion logs to your Warmaster logs. Your dps are pulling 40-50% of the numbers on Blackhorn that they are on Ultraxion. Ofc they are very different fights but to me this shows a deficiency when it comes to keeping damage up when you have to do other stuff. Take your top dps on ultraxion, 38.5k dps(e) compared to 14k dps(e) on blackhorn and so on.

Blackhorn is a pretty brutal fight and you never seem to have a moment where you can happily tunnel the mobs. Theres always a barrage to move into / out of, onslaughts, charges, sappers and so on. I guess what I'm trying to say is that ultraxion proves you can put out the right numbers, now you need to learn to put them out under pressure.

A big part of that is learning the tempo of the fight. Another would be positioning for maximum benefit, tank adds near a drake for maximum cleave benefit and so on. Consider the timing of your bloodlust. In an ideal world you'd use it for goriana but if the adds are a problem blow it on the 2nd or 3rd set to catchup some.

Just as an fyi, atm we can't quite get the elites down before the boss lands either but it's not stopped us from getting kills. Just keep cool, get one tank to pick up blackhorn, finish the elites, nuke goriana and then the boss. Having elites up when the boss lands doesn't have to be the end of the world. Blackhorn only really gets scary when his health drops somewhat and the enrage is pretty lenient. If you can come out of the transition into phase 2 somewhat cleanly a kill is on the cards. Our first kill we lost 2 dps when the dragon landed (taunting, whats that!?) and we killed him just after enrage.

Finally, I just checked your next nights logs. Don't be discouraged, that number of wipes on progression is probably about normal, its a bastard fight to learn. Regardless, good luck.

[Deleted]

Compare your ultraxion logs to your Warmaster logs. Your dps are pulling 40-50% of the numbers on Blackhorn that they are on Ultraxion. Ofc they are very different fights but to me this shows a deficiency when it comes to keeping damage up when you have to do other stuff. Take your top dps on ultraxion, 38.5k dps(e) compared to 14k dps(e) on blackhorn and so on.

Effective dps is always low on blackhorn due to downtime. (eg our last kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=3189&e=3507 )

[kittyb]

We have 1 tank pick up both adds and position so the mdps can target one drake while cleaving the adds. Ranged burn the other drake, switch to the mdps drake, then the adds. Other tank is running around soaking barrages. For the 2nd set, same thing but the tanks switch jobs. We pop hero during the 3rd set of adds to try to get a clean transition to p2.

[rzzr]

I am guessing that Doozys very unlucky with drops and he/she doesn't have the tier 4 piece yet, nor the bow or any trinkets from DS. Even the LFR bow is better that what he/she has. Make her/him do LFR DS for loot and hope their luck changes!
Zenoob is over the hit cap by miles but I think you know that.

[Andaja]

Could you specify which parts you are getting stuck on, cause after looking into your second posts logs and comparing it with our derp nights (few mains weren't there) dps i could say its relatively the same , if not better, and yet we still managed to kill. Thou our problem wasnt the dps, but rather players that like to single soak barages, sappers not dying fast enough, or just random and abit out of place fire positioning, that kinda screwed our plans with us failing to relocate properly.
Im pretty sure this is what might haunt you too.
So unless you are 100% sure this is dps issue please tell on what are you failing so we might help you to adjust the strat, cause like i said, our dps is very similar, yet we manage to kill him somehow, and if it is dps issue, just ignore this post ^^'

[kittyb]

Doozys just started raiding with us a few weeks ago and up to that point only had cleared DS a few times on normal. We've been feeding him gear as best we can to get him caught up. He got his 4 piece last night, now he just needs trinkets.

If DPS looks fine based on your guys experience, then I think the biggest issue on Blackhorn now is raid awareness, from what I remember we were eating a lot of charges and the sapper was an issue a few times. I'm hoping to get a few pulls on him tonight, if not then for sure on Thursday to see if we improve. We should do better if for nothing else we've seen the fight before and got quite a few pulls on it. And I gotta remember to remind a few people to fix their reforging, keep forgetting.

[Andaja]

Charges can be an issue coupled with barages and assaults. Afterall healers have their limits too, so the best you can do is to make sure people actually see charge lines on ground and move from them...to the best of their posibilities. But sapper shouldnt really be an issue with two hunters AND a dk. Also dont forget that tanks have stuns, your pala healer also has stuns. Your lock has stuns. Put out some sort of rotation, or coordinate that via vent.
Also there are alot of times when one tanks add is already dead (always dreadblade, as slayer can be stacked), so that tank can also help out on stuns for sapper. Not to mention with two hunters all the entrance should/could be frost trapped

[Soisoisoi]

Dare I ask what the hell that DK is doing? 33.5k on Ultraxion in that gear? I would say tell him to go MasterFrost or something, but he clearly won't be able to handle it.

Wait, he's missing like 80 GCDs on ultraxion, is he in Frost Presence?!

[smegdawg]

Your lock is destro so that he can Bane of Havoc Goriona. But on your longest attempt and so what I would assume is you best attempt. the BoH did 400k damage to her. That's great if you can consistently make it to phase 2 and just need that extra push to get her down but since you are having an issue with raid awareness and standing in "fire" maybe he would be better off with the much higher mobility affliction spec.

[kittyb]

DK should be in unholy, will check tonight to be sure. How are you doing the GCD calculation? Just curious for my own education.

I'll talk to the lock and see how he feels, it's nice having BOH on Goriona. I don't think he's having any issues standing in fire, will double check the logs when I get home.

[Deleted]

Your lock is destro so that he can Bane of Havoc Goriona. But on your longest attempt and so what I would assume is you best attempt. the BoH did 400k damage to her. That's great if you can consistently make it to phase 2 and just need that extra push to get her down but since you are having an issue with raid awareness and standing in "fire" maybe he would be better off with the much higher mobility affliction spec.

I thought you could BoH goriona right at the start of p1 when she's in range for a few seconds?

[CricketEmerissEU]

I thought you could BoH goriona right at the start of p1 when she's in range for a few seconds?

Yes, you can.

[smegdawg]

I'll talk to the lock and see how he feels, it's nice having BOH on Goriona. I don't think he's having any issues standing in fire, will double check the logs when I get home.

Its definitely nice to have BoH on Goriona but his dps to me feels really low. Granted I haven't done heroic warmaster but knowing my class, destruction is a very standstill and cast warlock spec. Heavy movement whether to get out of blade rush/fire, or to stand in barrages/onslaughts makes it difficult to do great damage as destro. Especially while you guys are still adjusting strats to find something that works.

Affliction is much more mobile and he will be able to spread his damage every where and have it tick while he is running around.

I also don't see fel flame at all on his charts. Using this will help him keep up time on his UA/immolate that should be spread around on every target while he is moving and unable to cast.

Both specs are definitely viable though so it really comes down to which he can play the best

[microtonal]

Doozys just started raiding with us a few weeks ago and up to that point only had cleared DS a few times on normal. We've been feeding him gear as best we can to get him caught up. He got his 4 piece last night, now he just needs trinkets.

Doozys could still use a few pieces here and there (trinkets!), but his setup is good otherwise. Zenob is fine. Going forward, the Morchok gloves make for a better offset piece than the helm, but that's not an issue until he gets the tier helm.

Not a lot of difference between haste and mastery (after hit/crit) for survival these days, so as long as they stay consistent with it, it doesn't bother me that they went in different directions. It might be interesting to make some close comparisons after Doozys catches up in gear, though.

In addition to the low DPS, your mage seems to be having some issues with the button on Ultraxion, which is a bit of a red flag for me. That's simply an "are you paying attention" check.

If DPS looks fine based on your guys experience, then I think the biggest issue on Blackhorn now is raid awareness, from what I remember we were eating a lot of charges and the sapper was an issue a few times.

Blackhorn is a pretty technical fight in terms of positioning and movement (Spine is even more so), so as long as your group is able to get the drakes down in one harpoon, it's really just a matter of getting the rhythms of the encounter down. We've had it on farm for a while, now, but I still find it frustrating and annoying and not particularly fun.

1) The actual damage effect of the charges extends well beyond the end of the graphic, so sidestepping is always the answer (as long as you're not sidestepping into something else, anyway). If the charge targets someone standing between you and the elite and you don't move, you'll still get hit.

2) Targeting macros are your friends, especially for the sapper and Goriona during the phase transition. If he doesn't already, your DK should have a target/grip/chains all-in-one macro for the sapper.

3) Don't forget to schedule your healer/raid wall cooldowns for onslaughts. They're needed.

[Samania]

Your lock is destro so that he can Bane of Havoc Goriona. But on your longest attempt and so what I would assume is you best attempt. the BoH did 400k damage to her. That's great if you can consistently make it to phase 2 and just need that extra push to get her down but since you are having an issue with raid awareness and standing in "fire" maybe he would be better off with the much higher mobility affliction spec.

BoH on Goriona is actually quite dangerous with the nerfs, so be careful with it if you have your lock do so. When I was still doing this fight on my lock, I had to stop doing that because otherwise Goriona would come down far too soon and it would lead to a wipe. It depends on whether or not you're getting to phase 2 with melee adds still up (we almost always do).

That said, affliction is amazing on this fight and extremely mobile (multi dotting FTW), but demo can be very nice as well for bursting down the drakes if you have issues with that. Our lock has been going demo for the last few weeks, and he can do most of a drake by himself.