There should be little to no gear progression in PvP

[Brewski]

Gear ruins PvP. People who use PvE items in PvP cause an uneven playing field... lowering the skill-cap significantly. Also the progression for PvP gear sucks, if you create a new character you shouldn't have to wait months to get a full up-to-date PvP set, you should get it right away. Right now rating depends on gear and not skill, this shouldn't be the case. PvP should be like the arena tournament realm, where everyone is on an even playing field. The reason PvP is unbalanced is because of gear progression, something must be done.

[count dante]

WoW is a gear-grind game. If you use PvE gear in PvP I will roll you incredibly easy (all PvP gear). That isnt meant for epeen, just experience. It doesnt take months to get full honor gear and getting pvp gear is faster than carebear gear.

As someone who does nothing but PvP, your post is not accurate and your suggestion is a poor one.

[Deleted]

Do pvp, get gear; do better pvp.
Sounds fair to me. There should be reward for time and effort invested.

[TheVice]

This is my point exactly. Top pvp gear should be available to everyone and with fairly easy grind. Whole point of pvp is to measure skill, is it not? Well what skill there is to kill somebody in blue, while you have full season-whatever epics? Oh, better game should be rewarded you say? How about a friggin' different color, or some crappy mount, or hell even some stupid title. NOT actual gear (don't tell it's like this is wow already, it isn't. You HAVE to do rated bg's to get points OR arena, that alone already requires a premade team and GOOD LUCK joining some decent team if you have no good titles/gear already). I don't even see any point in this, reward a better player with GEAR so he could win versus a worse player even easier! Seriously what the fuck, where's the logic in this?
Apparently GW2 developers agree with me on this and there be always same stats for everyone in their ranked matches (which I personally won't even touch because I simply do NOT like it, yet I'll be competitive versus those who do. I can play safely knowing that I'll stand my ground and possibly even win 1v1 versus some "whatever gladiator" just because he can be bothered with it and has much better gear.

[count dante]

Isnt carebear life the same? Do you not have to kill bugs to get better gear to kill bigger bugs? By this logic, carebear gear should be much easier to get as well, in fact, why have any gear changes at all? Once you hit 85 you get a set of PvP gear and PvE gear right? If you want to do the sexy carebear stuff (sorry, I dont do any so I couldnt even tell you the top ones out there), dont you have to be with solid pre-made groups?

I would argue the PvP system is even BETTER than the carebear as I can save up my money and buy the crafted entry PvP set and get into the battlegrounds and I will get upgrades to gear, even if i was to be on the losing side of every BG I was in. You are correct though, to get the Conquest gear you have to do Conquest matches. If you want to get top notch carebear gear you need to get top notch content.

If you cant get into a solid RBG group (and yes, it is hard to break in), simply make your own. To start it is just like dungeon crawls: you need certain core classes and there is some variance. Tell the folks for your group that there is a learning curve and there will be some time where the team sucks while they learn... just like a new dungeon. Eventually, you will improve and start to win a few matches.

Why should PvP be ANY different then carebear?

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

reward for time investment in pve: gear
reward for time investment in pvp: winning

if you only get the pvp gear for "having it" - you're doing it wrong.

[bandet]

"I want things I don't have to work for"

/thread

[Stanton Biston]

I don't get it. Everyone who started the season should be in full conquest. If you're not, that's your fault. Takes 16 weeks if you're capping the min.

[Arazen]

"I want things I don't have to work for"

/thread

That's a pretty narrow-minded view on the subject. I'm fine with having to work for my gear (I prefer the GW2 model though), unless I'm forced to play to point cap every week on all of my toons from week 1 on. Yeah, you could argue, that "forced" is a pretty strong term here, but there's no way around it, if you want your character(s) to be competitive. And say you don't play for a few months: Everyone will have full conquest gear on every rating and you will get stomped in full honor gear.

Also, the better players already get their gear faster than everyone else, why is there a need for T2 weapons with a rating requirement? Imho the recoloured arena set is enough.

My suggestions:
- remove T2
- increase cost and power of T1 (just give it loads of pvp power, so pve guys won't feel, like they need to pvp)
- ban any pve piece out of max level arena
- redesign conquest points to just give a season limit of points you can acquire, that increases weekly (i.e. if you haven't played the first 3 weeks, you could earn 1650*4 = 6600 points when you start to play in week 4)

[Alarasia]

Sounds like an L2P issue...I just grinded out a full boomkin set on my feral druid and with no gems and is alrdy 1700. Gear is not that big of an issue in pvp, so either stop playing because "qqqq i cant get gear and thats the reason im getting farmed" or quit bitching.

[Blueobelisk]

So you want to do 0 work and be on par with people trying?

I agree that the gear barrier is a little absurd now, especially if you're just starting, but to give free gear is lol...

[Deleted]

This is a dated MMO, maybe newer MMO's can make this work but gear-progression = main motivator in this game. WoW is built on gear progression and customising it. If you want a system of pure skill (class) then the only way I could see it implemented is "Competitive Arenas and RBGs". All stats are set to a certain amount for each class and spec but even this would be terrible as stats fluctuate throughout tiers.

[Judge Malthred]

OP you are playing the wrong game. Warcraft, like just about all MMO's, is all about playing the slots to get better gear. It is one of the major driving forces to play. Just like Diablo. Get geat to get better gear to get better gear etc.

What you are asking for is how Planetside was, and hopefully Planetside 2 will be. There was no unique gear, you had to choose specializations that gave you access to specific gear and that was it. For PvP its a good way to go as you can't out gear someone, you can only out play them.

[gb4200]

"I want things I don't have to work for"

/thread

Why should I ever have to lose to a lesser skilled player simply because of gear. On my warrior, 85 333 ilvl, I hit for like 3-10k on people who can hit me for over 50k. What is the point in me going into a bg when I know the only thing I can really contribute is by pummeling healers, to get gear? I cannot except that as a logical answer if you are someone who actually likes to play competitively, on the other hand I can see this illogic coming from players who couldn't compete on a non-gear based level. I bet if you took away pve gear from pvp there would be a lot less pvers still doing pvp at high levels.

[Asmodejjj]

I just looked at this guy's threads. Every single one he makes, he bitches about some aspect of the game. OP is clearly an unhappy person who needs to get out more. Just check this page for his complaints:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=39985174


Also, your threads are shit. You post a lame ass opinion, that's it. Go put it in an existing thread or something, there's no room for debating it or anything. You just want reactions because you're a troll baiter.

[natureca]

It's pretty easy to get full Honor gear in a week, which is pretty decent time invested wise. Getting your Valor gear doesn't take a whole lot more time either, the game revolves around gear grinds and improving your character, if you want a perfectly balanced pvp game WoW won't really ever be that for you sorry. With that said though, they've done a pretty good job making it easier for people to get into pvp and keep it some what balanced since they started. Next Expansion they'll keep working on it so maybe wait till then

[bandet]

Why should I ever have to lose to a lesser skilled player simply because of gear. On my warrior, 85 333 ilvl, I hit for like 3-10k on people who can hit me for over 50k. What is the point in me going into a bg when I know the only thing I can really contribute is by pummeling healers, to get gear? I cannot except that as a logical answer if you are someone who actually likes to play competitively, on the other hand I can see this illogic coming from players who couldn't compete on a non-gear based level. I bet if you took away pve gear from pvp there would be a lot less pvers still doing pvp at high levels.

So then instead of whining about how "unfair" the situation is, why don't you just go get the gear and kill the people who are supposedly worse than you?

Weekly Point caps already exist for a reason: So people who play more don't progress incredibly faster than those who don't. It is more of a dam than a wall, but look at it from the other end of the spectrum. Already in the game for people who do play more than the casual (which is probably 1 hour a day), they run out of things to do VERY, VERY quickly, which is one of the reasons why the game is losing subs. You want to basically make people all get gear at the same rate, which completely removes incentive to play.

You seem to not understand the point of a RPG. The POINT isn't to be at the top. The point is enjoying the journey there. Once you get there it is actually quite boring, which is why they have to keep releasing new content at an ever-increasing pace as they make it easier for the people who need things handed to them.

[Wolfdragon]

Umm, how do I put this simply? If I put in more effort than you did, spent about 10 times more time, doing something I don't really enjoy(and haven't since I started pvping(raids)), I don't deserve an advantage? Because you don't want to bother doing it? I wear PvE gear, and I'm proud of it, because I got it by working for it. You, you should be ashamed of yourself, because you aren't even full cataclysmic.

Let me try and get out of this "This guy is what's ruining this game" mindset... if there is no progression, if there is no incentive to actually play on our characters, if there is no reward for the time we put in... what's the point? Proving that I'm better than you? If you want an even ground arena, with full gear, against full gear, play ATR, you get your wish(Just for the record, I'm on ATR aswell).

I don't get this part I'm better than this guy, but he has more gear so he beats me.. there is no gear excuse, I can't count the number of times people called me out on gear, I equipped my vicious(S9!) set, and still proceeded to win(albeit mostly complete retards(or speccs I heavily counter), but still). If gear progression(or progression at all) doesn't exist, an RPG or MMO-RPG gets boring. Remember the old saying "You can do anything you set your mind to"? It's true, and if you lack gear, you don't want to be good at pvp, because that's step number 1. BE PROPER EQUIPPED. The issue isn't gear, the issue is YOU.

[Randomly]

You would think people would want to PvP for fun, not for gear.

There is a difference in PvE and in PvP when you first start out. In PvE you start with normals, then heroics, then the harder heroics, then LFR and raids. In PvP you start with crap gear and fight against people in the best gear while near useless for a week until you're geared.

For those of you saying that it is only for a week, the issue remains that that week is often stressful and upsetting as you fight against insane odds. Gear progression has its place, but in PvP? You admit that without gear progression in an MMO things would become boring, but we also have people saying it only takes a week. So are you bored after that week?

Why even have that week of uselessness and pain?

[matters]

Gear ruins PvP. People who use PvE items in PvP cause an uneven playing field... lowering the skill-cap significantly. Also the progression for PvP gear sucks, if you create a new character you shouldn't have to wait months to get a full up-to-date PvP set, you should get it right away. Right now rating depends on gear and not skill, this shouldn't be the case. PvP should be like the arena tournament realm, where everyone is on an even playing field. The reason PvP is unbalanced is because of gear progression, something must be done.

Those players whose 'gear is so good it = their personal skill' had to at some point be in the same exact boat you are in, ie. they have no gear. Those players put in the time to get their blue Bloodthirsty gear and went from there instead of QQing on the forums offering an absolutely ludicrous solution to a game that REVOLVES AROUND GRINDING FOR BETTER GEAR. Now hitting 85 and being able to buy a full 377ilvl resilience set is not enough, they have to have the same gear as the people who run arena or even possibly the people who run arena or RBGs at a 2.2k+ rating.

Faulty logic in a game that revolves around GRINDING, especially for gear. What you are saying can also be equated to a PvE perspective, meaning that players who want to take part on high end rating should receive a 400ilvl upon reaching level 85, you know so they can take part in high end raiding.

Seems like you want to skip the grind and just get the gear because in your eyes the gear magically grants skill. Although i do agree with with you on the use of overpowered PvE items such as Vial of Shadows, Bone Link Fetish, current tier legendary items and of course Cunning of the Skill, oops i mean Cruel

Those types of items should not be allowed in arenas nor should they be allowed in RBGs.