How/Why/When did Cartels/Gangs/whatever get so dangerous & violent in South America?

[Dacien]

Well, the US caused that cesspool

This sentiment infuriates me. It's bad enough we get blamed for every goddamn thing under the sun, we really do. But a country has a fully corrupt government that cannot be trusted to look out for it's people, and the US is to blame.

Yes, I know we have drug demand, but there's drug demand all over the world and you don't see the kind of bloodshed you see in South American countries. The protip is, these countries have problems that are allowing crime to go unchecked. I am just so sick and tired of hearing that the US is to blame for every ill under the sun.

Nothing personal, eriseis, I'm sure you know that.

[Tragedia]

SNIP

Pretty much this has happened to the rest of Latin america. Political instability and a bunch of coups.

---------- Post added 2012-05-28 at 12:32 AM ----------

Compared to U.S. it's in the south, you know what I mean...

Mexico is North America.

Central is from Belize and Guatemala to Panama and from Colombia to Tierra del Fuego it's South America.

[Catta]

This sentiment infuriates me. It's bad enough we get blamed for every goddamn thing under the sun, we really do. But a country has a fully corrupt government that cannot be trusted to look out for it's people, and the US is to blame.

Well both Iran and Cuba did and Panama too i believe...

Well technically it was CIA but anyway

[Foosha]

I just want to know when a President with a spine will take direct action against the cartels/corrupt governments that continue to creep across the U.S border and rape/pillage U.S citizens, along with the other numerous shit they do in Mexico/South America/Central America.

Selling weapons to them so you can track them, but really you don't at all "track" them and then the weapons you sold to them kill your agents isn't really workin there Obama

[Pan Pan]

So the US is part of South America cuz it's south of Canada...

No, because the U.S. is America. Everything south of it is South America. The U.S. and Canada are North America. How can the U.S. be South America when it is America itself? Duh.

/sarcasm

[Todgruppe]

Eh, what do you expect - much of this continental definition is cultural - hence why some people consider Europe a continent

Did you mean a country?

But yeah, Los Zetas are incredibly powerful, they where trained by USSOCOM, unintentionally of course deserters of the Mexican SF. La eMe, is also an incredibly powerful organization, and are who Mara Salvatrucha pays homage to (MS-13, 13th letter of the alphabet is M), and they are one of a great multitude of gangs who fall under La eMe's purview.

[TofuBeast]

I just want to know when a President with a spine will take direct action against the cartels/corrupt governments that continue to creep across the U.S border and rape/pillage U.S citizens, along with the other numerous shit they do in Mexico/South America/Central America.

Selling weapons to them so you can track them, but really you don't at all "track" them and then the weapons you sold to them kill your agents isn't really workin there Obama

Or, you know, you could just end the drug war and legalize/regulate marijuana to de-fund the cartels.

Cracking down on them causes them to increase their prices and generate more revenue.

Just like we all learned in school that the Alcohol Prohibition failed, the Drug War is failing too. Only on a much more massive scale.

Of course, nothing will happen because police unions, for-profit prisons, and pharmaceutical drug companies are all lobbying and throwing money to politicians to keep it going. And the government doesn't give a damn that the majority of citizens want the drug war to end when they're making money.

[Eo Jenkins]

This sentiment infuriates me. It's bad enough we get blamed for every goddamn thing under the sun, we really do. But a country has a fully corrupt government that cannot be trusted to look out for it's people, and the US is to blame.

Yes, I know we have drug demand, but there's drug demand all over the world and you don't see the kind of bloodshed you see in South American countries. The protip is, these countries have problems that are allowing crime to go unchecked. I am just so sick and tired of hearing that the US is to blame for every ill under the sun.

Nothing personal, eriseis, I'm sure you know that.

Couldn't agree more!

[Foosha]

Or, you know, you could just end the drug war and legalize/regulate marijuana to de-fund the cartels.

Cracking down on them causes them to increase their prices and generate more revenue.

Just like we all learned in school that the Alcohol Prohibition failed, the Drug War is failing too. Only on a much more massive scale.

Of course, nothing will happen because police unions, for-profit prisons, and pharmaceutical drug companies are all lobbying and throwing money to politicians to keep it going. And the government doesn't give a damn that the majority of citizens want the drug war to end when they're making money.

They do more than just smuggle weed across for money... Basically they are the late mafia without the code and ethics that they practiced. Pretty dangerous people, stop deluding your self thinking decriminalization or legalization would solve the worlds problems.

[Todgruppe]

Or, you know, you could just end the drug war and legalize/regulate marijuana to de-fund the cartels.

Cracking down on them causes them to increase their prices and generate more revenue.

Just like we all learned in school that the Alcohol Prohibition failed, the Drug War is failing too. Only on a much more massive scale.

Of course, nothing will happen because police unions, for-profit prisons, and pharmaceutical drug companies are all lobbying and throwing money to politicians to keep it going. And the government doesn't give a damn that the majority of citizens want the drug war to end when they're making money.

Cartel's don't deal in weed, not in a massive amount, a lot of it comes from Canada. They are mainly Pharma's/Cocaine, Mexican Cartels that is. Heroine's majority is Turkey/Afghan.

[Kreyzor]

Or, you know, you could just end the drug war and legalize/regulate marijuana to de-fund the cartels.

Cracking down on them causes them to increase their prices and generate more revenue.

A lot of people seem to have this mentality, but when you think about it legalizing and regulating drugs the cartels manage and produce will probably only make things worse. You essentially put thousands of people out of their livelihoods, forcing them to resort to other means of making money like robbing and kidnapping/ransoming.

It's not as simple as just "lol legalize drugs and cartels vanish", cartels basically function off of their ability to provide a market for people that doesn't exist anywhere else, and they will adapt to exist.

[poser765]

Eh, what do you expect - much of this continental definition is cultural - hence why some people consider Europe a continent

they taught me that Europe was a continent in school. Did the "they" who decide such things change their mind?

[Kurdiern]

A lot of people seem to have this mentality, but when you think about it legalizing and regulating drugs the cartels manage and produce will probably only make things worse. You essentially put thousands of people out of their livelihoods, forcing them to resort to other means of making money like robbing and kidnapping/ransoming.

It's not as simple as just "lol legalize drugs and cartels vanish", cartels basically function off of their ability to provide a market for people that doesn't exist anywhere else, and they will adapt to exist.

You legalize drugs, and you cut a MASSIVE portion of their profits. Things like Prostitution & Weapon sales are a part of their profit also, but the vast vast majority of it comes from drugs. You legalize drugs, you take away a market the Cartels have and rely on.

Or you just move to Singapore and see how that shit is done.

[Lefthandpath]

i was taught that mexico was central america.

inb4 "thats coz yer education was crap and yer family and everyone you know is racist"

no. just no. its what i read in books, published for american educational institutions. it COULD be that geographers have flip-flopped on this issue, much like some folks cant figure out if they want to call pluto a planet. it doesnt mean im stupid/racist or the education i got was bad. quite honestly until this thread i hadnt thought about it at all, so all i see is someone havng a huge chip on their shoulder about mexico being some part of a continent.

i would argue that mexico has a lot more in common (culturally speaking) with central america than the U.S. and canada, and that cultural divide (even though that divide is shrinking) is enough to call mexico a part of central america without feeling a lick of shame or ignorance. mexicans are quick to call white people gringo or worse at the drop of a hat, separating themselves from the U.S., so i see no reason why that self imposed division should be a "light switch" for any reason other than to say this:

"hey man we're latino, but we're not THOSE latinos down there!"

its a bad posture, only made worse the closer we look at it.

as far as central/south america and drugs go........man, that crap has been going on forever. pablo escobar was the first dude to hit my "personal radar", but i'd be a fool to think he was the beginning. fact is, make any vice illegal, and only bad people will be in charge of that vice. its funny coz conservatives use the tag line "if you make guns illegal, only criminals will own guns". that tag line may ring true, but if it does, it also rings true for vices...drugs/gambling/prostitution ect.

drugs are shitty, no doubt. but if we ever want to take the shittiest part out of drugs, the ONLY solution is legalization and mass regulation.

i would also like to point out that there are some serious drug gangs all over the world, from the poppy fields in southern asia, to the cocaine kingpins in columbia......i even hear that italy and russia have had gangs before......

what i want to know is "is there an aussie mob"? that would kick ass. a black market for "shrimp on the barbie". .

[kael92]

To OP Cartels have been around for awhile all over south and central America. In my opinion however the violence didn't really peak until "El chapo" Guzman took control of the sinaloa cartel and basically started one of the biggest drug wars ever. Los zetas from my understanding when i visit my relatives in mexico were originally ex military personal and for a short time were hired mercenaries for the cartels before siding with them. Also would like to add that corruption in the police also attributed to this rise. Guzman was in prison and bribed the officers to release him, and now hes on the most powerful and dangerous man.

[Dacien]

Well, you now see worse stuff happening in North American countries, like OP said, mexico is violent.

Yes, Mexico too.

[Todgruppe]

You legalize drugs, and you cut a MASSIVE portion of their profits. Things like Prostitution & Weapon sales are a part of their profit also, but the vast vast majority of it comes from drugs. You legalize drugs, you take away a market the Cartels have and rely on.

Or you just move to Singapore and see how that shit is done.

You aren't understanding what he is saying. If you legalize drugs, millions lose their jobs; Police/Feds(DEA/ATF/other in the alphabet soup)/lawyers/judges/correction officers/clean up crews/the list losing business would be significant to say the least. All the while you'd gain a few thousand warehouse jobs, maybe some transpo, and a couple farmers. Our economy could not sustain the lose of employment from legalization.

They'd move to other businesses, legalizing drugs won't miraculously solve all crime.

[Bakis]

Extensive poverty + easy money + corrupt or missing law enforcement = there you go

[Deathpath]

it got that way from curroption, money, and power.

[Merendel]

fact is, make any vice illegal, and only bad people will be in charge of that vice. its funny coz conservatives use the tag line "if you make guns illegal, only criminals will own guns". that tag line may ring true, but if it does, it also rings true for vices...drugs/gambling/prostitution ect.

I'm conservative and I agree. Make em all legal but controlled. The truely nasty drugs will still cause messes but at least if they are sold above board they can be taxed to recoup some of the losses incured in cleaning up said mess. Either way if sold thorugh legal means more cheaply than the black market that section of the market will dry up as unprofitable, cuting into the drug cartel's profits and reducing their power.

As far as illegal vices go my stance is you can do whatever you want with your life as long as it only impacts yourself. If the results of your favorite vice begin to harm others or force society to support you that's when the law needs to come down hard.