Will melees ever = ranged?

[Lilly32]

Just wondering. Also I dont mean by nerfing wizards and DHs down to the level of monks and barbs. Will they actually balance melees to the point where you can actually melee without needing BiS gear or having to kite? Im not talking about moving out of bad stuff, Im talking about actual kiting. Im a melee I shouldnt be forced into kiting. If I wanted to kite I would have quit my monk with over 100 hours played by now and rolled a wizard or DH. I want to melee. Also I shouldnt have to use a damn shield. Dual wield and 2 handed weapons should be viable options for both monks and Barbs regardless of where you are in Inferno. It shouldnt be shield or go home. This isnt WoW or any other MMO for that matter we dont have healers so why should we have tanks? Using a shield and being forced to stack high amounts of Vit,resists,avoidance means you are a tank.

[Caiada]

Unless enemies start specifically countering kiters or they change how melee works, no, melee will never be as good as ranged is in Inferno.

[BLSTMASTER]

I dont think any game was truly able to balance melee vs ranged tbh, they just work too differently.

But to the point, the difference shouldn't be too big to make one side feel 'underpowered' as was the case for d3 in inf before the class nerfs. Not sure about after the nerf. DH/Wiz class seem to care a bit more about defensive stats now.

Blizz seem to be watching the situation very closely so I hope they can address the issue (If the issue is still there).

While people say that blizz is terrible at balancing, I'd say they do a pretty damn good job compared to other game companies :P

[Lilly32]

There are just some times certain affix mobs are impossible for melees. Any ground crap or arcane combined with jailer/waller usually means instant death because you cant escape as a melee but those are a joke for ranged. Also where DHs are walking around with ridiculous attack like 100k or more melees are lucky to have 10-12k after stacking for defense. Further nerfing of DH/Wiz doesnt do anything. Nerfing Inferno blues/yellows just makes ranged more OP. But I dont see why they cant give melees base resists so they dont have to sacrifice so much of their other stats. Like give Monk/Barb natural 400 resists to all in Act I Inferno and have it go up by 100 in the following acts. Obviously they can still stack more if they chose but it doesnt force them to gimp all their stats because they have to buy vit+resist all gear for every slot.

[GrieverXIII]

No they won't ever be as good as Range at killing stuff, if built well they are much better at surviving tough. (Edit : and by that i mean playing with a shield, an enormous amount of resists, a high amount of block and a defensive build).

There are just some times certain affix mobs are impossible for melees. Any ground crap or arcane combined with jailer/waller usually means instant death because you cant escape as a melee but those are a joke for ranged. Also where DHs are walking around with ridiculous attack like 100k or more melees are lucky to have 10-12k after stacking for defense. Further nerfing of DH/Wiz doesnt do anything. Nerfing Inferno blues/yellows just makes ranged more OP. But I dont see why they cant give melees base resists so they dont have to sacrifice so much of their other stats. Like give Monk/Barb natural 400 resists to all in Act I Inferno and have it go up by 100 in the following acts. Obviously they can still stack more if they chose but it doesnt force them to gimp all their stats because they have to buy vit+resist all gear for every slot.

^ Clueless.

There's afixes that counters ranged just as harshly. Invincible Minions, extra fast, Waller/Jailer combined with Mortar or Arcane, Vortex, just to name a few, if any of those are combined together a range can get completly wrecked.

Its just flawed that DPS built melees are unviable in Inferno atm, i won't argue that and there's some afixes that are bullshit towards melee, but you guys make it sound like any range can cruise trough Inferno and has no counters, wich is completly untrue.

---------- Post added 2012-05-28 at 04:42 AM ----------

Unless enemies start specifically countering kiters or they change how melee works, no, melee will never be as good as ranged is in Inferno.

Vortex, Waller, Jailer, Extra fast aren't counters to kiting?

[Calamari]

As Lilly32 said ranged can simply stack dps and neglect defenses to some extent, something melee can't afford.. Wizards take this to the extreme.. a Wizard with 0 vitality on his gear and the ability Energy Armor and Force Armor glyph, is still tougher in Inferno than a vitality stacked DH or WD, as all attacks against the Wizard are reduced to 35% of his maximum health.. it's absurdly strong.

[GrieverXIII]

As Lilly32 said ranged can simply stack dps and neglect defenses to some extent, something melee can't afford.. Wizards take this to the extreme.. a Wizard with 0 vitality on his gear and the ability Energy Armor and Force Armor glyph, is still tougher in Inferno than a vitality stacked DH or WD, as all attacks against the Wizard are reduced to 35% of his maximum health.. it's absurdly strong.

Idk much about the Wizard or the WD but as a DH whatever i do, i get 1shot/2shot by everything so my only option is to stack offensive stat and my success is 100% based on my ability of avoiding everything and kiting.

Like i said, it seems like melees are meant to be 100% built around tanking in Inferno, wich i agree its lame and flawed, but stop claiming as its entirely impossible to progress in it or that ranged have it ez mode. Its just 2 completly different gameplay.

[WskyDK]

Dual wield and 2 handed weapons should be viable options for both monks and Barbs regardless of where you are in Inferno. It shouldnt be shield or go home. This isnt WoW or any other MMO for that matter we dont have healers so why should we have tanks? Using a shield and being forced to stack high amounts of Vit,resists,avoidance means you are a tank.

I disagree with this 100%.
Inferno is supposed to be BRUTALLY hard, requiring you to make certain sacrifices and alter your play style to rise up and meat the challenge.
If you're not willing to do everything IN YOUR POWER to beat it, you shouldn't be there.
(this coming from a monk who is getting crushed in act 2, rolling a DH alt so I can farm myself some gear to get through)

[Caiada]

No they won't ever be as good as Range at killing stuff, if built well they are much better at surviving tough. (Edit : and by that i mean playing with a shield, an enormous amount of resists, a high amount of block and a defensive build).



^ Clueless.

There's afixes that counters ranged just as harshly. Invincible Minions, extra fast, Waller/Jailer combined with Mortar or Arcane, Vortex, just to name a few, if any of those are combined together a range can get completly wrecked.

Its just flawed that DPS built melees are unviable in Inferno atm, i won't argue that and there's some afixes that are bullshit towards melee, but you guys make it sound like any range can cruise trough Inferno and has no counters, wich is completly untrue.

---------- Post added 2012-05-28 at 04:42 AM ----------



Vortex, Waller, Jailer, Extra fast aren't counters to kiting?

Kiting as in constantly getting out of range to attack as a broad strategy. Waller or Jailer somewhat do, but not every champion's going to have those. Extra Fast just means you're away for less time and Vortex just means your opponent has an anti-escape.

Unless monsters specifically counter any attack from range, range won't ever equal melee.

It's much more equal than most other games of this persuasion and it's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but a skilled ranged is going to be much less gear-dependent than a skilled melee.

[GrieverXIII]

Kiting as in constantly getting out of range to attack as a broad strategy. Waller or Jailer somewhat do, but not every champion's going to have those. Extra Fast just means you're away for less time and Vortex just means your opponent has an anti-escape.

Unless monsters specifically counter any attack from range, range won't ever equal melee.

It's much more equal than most other games of this persuasion and it's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but a skilled ranged is going to be much less gear-dependent than a skilled melee.

I agree melees are 100% gear dependant, but ranged are more skill dependent in that regard, at least again talking about the DH, no clue how OP is the Wizards Force Armor or what WDs even do in Inferno simply because a geared melee will be able to take a lot more abuse than a DH that dies in 2hits no matter what he does, wich allows for more mistakes.

[Fencers]

Just wondering.

Probably never. No.

At least not in any way that isn't essentially a gimmick; I wouldn't expect melee to ever have the comfort of range.

[stomination]

Unless enemies start specifically countering kiters or they change how melee works, no, melee will never be as good as ranged is in Inferno.

So when mobs have fast teleport wall vortex mortar its so they can kill the melee who are not in melee range.

[GrieverXIII]

So when mobs have fast teleport wall vortex mortar its so they can kill the melee who are not in melee range.

heheheheheh

[Keoren]

As Lilly32 said ranged can simply stack dps and neglect defenses to some extent, something melee can't afford.. Wizards take this to the extreme.. a Wizard with 0 vitality on his gear and the ability Energy Armor and Force Armor glyph, is still tougher in Inferno than a vitality stacked DH or WD, as all attacks against the Wizard are reduced to 35% of his maximum health.. it's absurdly strong.

This was already nerfed.

[GrieverXIII]

the only class that's still op as fuck are demon hunters

ranged will always have an advantage, but never to the extent dh have atm

Yep, if you absolutly never lag, never lose focus for a second, absolutly dodge everything and are capable to foresee mobs charging you from outside the screen. DHs are the absolute best class in the game atm, i agree.

[juzalol]

Yep, if you absolutly never lag, never lose focus for a second, absolutly dodge everything and are capable to foresee mobs charging you from outside the screen. DHs are the absolute best class in the game atm, i agree.

Just have to not play between 6 to 10pm. Constant 150-250 latency makes some monsters
pretty much unkillable.

But yes, DHs are the best inferno solo class. It's fast, easy and cheap to gear with pure
offensive stats and just avoid melee and enemy projectiles. Everything will 1 shot you but with no mistakes you can
kill almost any champions.

And like any Blizzard game the melee classes will grow extremely strong with bis gear.

[cFortyfive]

Just buy all the crap the ledge farmers put on the ah and you will do just as fine.

[Cairhiin]

Kiting as in constantly getting out of range to attack as a broad strategy. Waller or Jailer somewhat do, but not every champion's going to have those. Extra Fast just means you're away for less time and Vortex just means your opponent has an anti-escape.

Unless monsters specifically counter any attack from range, range won't ever equal melee.

It's much more equal than most other games of this persuasion and it's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but a skilled ranged is going to be much less gear-dependent than a skilled melee.

Yes but in a perfectly designed Diablo melee has more tools to survive, ie more damage reduction, more survivibility skills, life leech, etc. Currently that just doesn't work. Besides as a Witch Doctor, I don't feel I'm that OP. I have barely any defenses. Kiting doesn't really work against wallers, jailers, vortex and mortar as a WD.

[Konik]

get 1000 all resist + good gear and you roflstomp as a barb

check kripp's stream and see for yourself

[Deleted]

they need to fix blocking almost as not only does it have such a low % to happen but...
all elites/bosses hit to hard for blocking 2k damg to matter.
sure it's great against multi mob spam but multi mob spam is never an issue as they die quick to aoe as they got low hp to make up for the fact there is so many, some exceptions for "strong" "horde" elites,