Obama's kill list

[Charitystar]

Honestly I can't tell which can be more scary; the kill list or a homeless man face being chewed off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1552249.html

[kleinlax21]

I would be alarmed if our President, the commander in chief of our military, didn't possess a list that included individuals who have been deemed to be killed on sight. IMO, any individual gaining such attention from the President should be excluded from a kill on sight order if they are citizens. I'm not sure this is the case, but regardless, our President saying its okay to kill Americans on foreign soil without due process is heinous. Again, President Obama most likely is not in support of this, but if so, I would not approve of such a list.

Outside of being an American citizen, if you're a foreign national who has been identified with an organization that has actively participated and attempted to kill American citizens, then you've earned your spot on this list. I don't care about the reason or how justified in your actions you may be, if you seek the death of innocent non-combatants, I wont feel sorry for you. And I can guarantee Predator/Reaper drone operators won't either.

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 10:02 PM ----------

So in your opinion, if a UK citizen for example was "needed to die for America" is it okay to kill him?

I wanted to address this concern specifically: what if citizens of allied nations of the US have been identified as being a member of a plot or organization that wishes the death of civilian non-combatants upon the US?

If I was president, I would work with British military leadership to identify the target(s), and such a decision could and should be made by their leadership personnel. I believe we should respect the sovereignty of allied nations without jeapordizing the killing/capturing of such individuals. I support such a process of decision making, and I'm sure intelligence communities of the US and our allies frequently work together to identify, locate, and capture/kill such targets in a cooperative manner in a way that leaves everybody happy about their sovereignty.

[Synros]

I'd love to know whos on that list.

[Charitystar]

I'd love to know whos on that list.

It's obvious, government conspiracy theories will probably get killed(Alex Jones), along with Ron Paul supporters since they're considered terrorists. (IMO)

[DeltrusDisc]

It really should not be done this way. I understand the reality and the extreme difficulties in fighting the war on terror without resorting to full invasions, and I do fully believe that Obama and his advisors are doing the best they can to make sure they are being responsible in using this extreme power. But this sort of power just screams to be abused willingly or else by willing dupes, and innocents could be deliberately targeted for assassination with no oversight or control. Everyone should be troubled by this.

I agree with you, it is very troubling indeed. I honestly am pretty damn speechless by this...

[Eo Jenkins]

Agreed. Home field advantage is the countries laws, and popular opinion. You flee that, or are so arrogant that you think you are bullet proof and leave, that is your life in your own hands.

In reality, you give someone a reason to punch you in the face, and they are smart, they wait till they can get away with it. Why would a government act any differently?

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 02:53 PM ----------



Oh yea cause all the problems in America are his fault alone. It does not take a whole array of men and women to fuck it all up, over time.. it's just that one guys fault.
I am glad we are a monarchay.

Did I ever say it was all his fault? No! Bush and many other politicians are to blame as well but that doesn't take any of the blame away for how much damage he has done to this country. The argument you provided is sill and makes you look childish.

---------- Post added 2012-06-01 at 07:31 PM ----------

I'm going to assume you hated Bush as well, correct?

As a matter of fact Grokan I did hate Bush as well. Thank you for asking. I am a registered Libertarian.

---------- Post added 2012-06-01 at 07:32 PM ----------

People do not care about the constitution anymore.

Things like this make me embarrassed to be an American.

I hear you man I am voting for Johnson this year. I can't vote for the lesser of two evils.

[Charitystar]

Next time I should probably post something like this in the democratic thread so more people will know about this. This information is far more important then "my little pony.." No hate against little pony, just caring for my country and wanting my freedom.

[bergmann620]

The thing I think many of us are missing is that these drone strikes often do have collateral damage.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct...ed-20111001-57

"Samir Khan was a bonus. It was a two-fer," said Rep. Mike McCaul (R-Texas), who serves on the House committee on homeland security. "It's a pretty good hit."

Two unidentified passengers in the vehicles were also killed, officials said.

I read somewhere else that one of the others killed was the target's 16-year old son.

I think, somehow, we've skipped the rail when we're doing things as bad, or worse, than the terrorists.

[Xeones]

The thing I think many of us are missing is that these drone strikes often do have collateral damage.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct...ed-20111001-57



I read somewhere else that one of the others killed was the target's 16-year old son.

I think, somehow, we've skipped the rail when we're doing things as bad, or worse, than the terrorists.

I wasn't aware killing a terrorist leader and his close associates who are 90% likely involved in his crimes was comparable to actively targeting innocent civilians and trying to kill as many as possible.

I understand you're probably one of those individuals who thinks all killing is bad but I'm going to say I find it INCREDIBLY offensive to indicate this is on the level of terrorists.

[bergmann620]

I wasn't aware killing a terrorist leader and his close associates who are 90% likely involved in his crimes was comparable to actively targeting innocent civilians and trying to kill as many as possible.

I understand you're probably one of those individuals who thinks all killing is bad but I'm going to say I find it INCREDIBLY offensive to indicate this is on the level of terrorists.

Grats on making a pure, blind guess.

The point is, we had no fucking idea who else was with him. He could have been giving the neighbor kid a ride home from the market.

How is that acceptable for a 'targeted strike'?

[dflores09]

Speaking of Obama. Feel free to come ask him questions while you have the chance. He is streaming on Twitch.tv.

[scrud]

Hitler killed who ever he wanted also.

[Kalyyn]

Hitler killed who ever he wanted also.

Hitler also drove a Mercedes. I guess that makes my neighbor a brutal dictator? After all, he's doing something that Hitler did...

[Rukh]

Sort of like with emergency spending that gets spent literally every year being moved to the actual budget, Obama is basically un-fudging more government process. This happened plenty before, you just never heard about it. Now you do.

[ringpriest]

I wasn't aware killing a terrorist leader and his close associates who are 90% likely involved in his crimes was comparable to actively targeting innocent civilians and trying to kill as many as possible.

I understand you're probably one of those individuals who thinks all killing is bad but I'm going to say I find it INCREDIBLY offensive to indicate this is on the level of terrorists.

America is a country where it has been decided, over a course of literally centuries, that killing people who are "90% likely" to be deserving of the death penalty is wrong. Not simply because occasionally executing innocent people is morally indefensible, but also because of the damage it does to peoples' faith in our system of law and justice. The ends determine the means. If the US wants to be seen as better than it's enemies, as a true champion of democracy and freedom, then it needs to hold itself to higher standards than "we were pretty sure they were all bad guys before we blew them up". Otherwise America is just the biggest bully on the block.

[N-7]

I wasn't aware killing a terrorist leader and his close associates who are 90% likely involved in his crimes was comparable to actively targeting innocent civilians and trying to kill as many as possible.

I understand you're probably one of those individuals who thinks all killing is bad but I'm going to say I find it INCREDIBLY offensive to indicate this is on the level of terrorists.

How the hell can you know if those who where near him are his associates? what if he were in a public place? hell what if he his children were with him (killing children is wrong no matter what)? I find it INCREDIBLY offensive that people don't think of this the same as they think of terrorism.

Terrorist choose a target (place, person or w/e) and don't care about causalities. The same goes for these drone attacks, they choose a target and don't care about causalities because it is for the "greater fucking good". Believe it or not it IS TERRORISM.

[Kalyyn]

How the hell can you know if those who where near him are his associates? what if he were in a public place? hell what if he his children were with him (killing children is wrong no matter what)? I find it INCREDIBLY offensive that people don't think of this the same as they think of terrorism.

Terrorist choose a target (place, person or w/e) and don't care about causalities. The same goes for these drone attacks, they choose a target and don't care about causalities because it is for the "greater fucking good". Believe it or not it IS TERRORISM.

As someone who interacts weekly with multiple drone pilots, I can say with absolute certainty that you're full of shit. Drone pilots don't just see a dot on their screen, go "THERE HE IS!" and start dropping ordinance. It's a well balanced system where the pilot has to locate and positively identify the target, then have a senior officer verify the target. They both then make assessments on the likelihood of killing the target and what collateral damage will ensue. At this point, their job is to find a way to minimize unwanted damage while still maintaining an acceptable probability of success. That's right; minimizing collateral damage is 1st priority, actually getting the target is second. Which completely invalidates everything you just said. After all of these fail-safe measures have been completed, the senior officer will authorize the attack.

[N-7]

As someone who interacts weekly with multiple drone pilots, I can say with absolute certainty that you're full of shit. Drone pilots don't just see a dot on their screen, go "THERE HE IS!" and start dropping ordinance. It's a well balanced system where the pilot has to locate and positively identify the target, then have a senior officer verify the target. They both then make assessments on the likelihood of killing the target and what collateral damage will ensue. At this point, their job is to find a way to minimize unwanted damage while still maintaining an acceptable probability of success. That's right; minimizing collateral damage is 1st priority, actually getting the target is second. Which completely invalidates everything you just said. After all of these fail-safe measures have been completed, the senior officer will authorize the attack.

So, I'm full of shit but you want me to believe what you said because " interacts weekly with multiple drone pilots". Give us a source/proof or you're as full of shit as me (if not more) sir.

EDIT: also, isn't this *shit* is supposed to be classified so how the hell do you know of their procedures in such details? again fucking source it sir.

[Radaney]

So, I'm full of shit but you want me to believe what you said because " interacts weekly with multiple drone pilots". Give us a source/proof or you're as full of shit as me (if not more) sir.

EDIT: also, isn't this *shit* is supposed to be classified so how the hell do you know of their procedures in such details? again fucking source it sir.

That's not classified at all.

[N-7]

That's not classified at all.

And the other part where are the sources for HIS claims? you know saying I heard something isn't really valid or convincing source really.