Delaying Raiding in MoP

[Faldric]

Would really like that, don't have to rush that much anymore.

Why do you have to rush? who forces you? Being in a guild who demands it and not having the guts to tell them you want to take your time? so everybody else has to be blocked from raiding because of your personal problem?

[r3d3mpt10n]

Its a great idea... especially for those rerolling Monks too, if gives them the ability to level the Class, and then actually have a chance firstt to get some gear and level their professions.. Since thats something im doing when MoP is released it would benefit me greatly.

Also it would benefit everyone else for the reasons given, whilst hardcore raiders would throw a hissy fit as they can't step into content as soon as possible, as they wouldnt be able to step right into the raiding content, giving everyone a level playing field.

As far as im concerned, it would also mean the World First kills, would have a bit more significance, since everyone would be able to geared similarly, and it wont be a basis of people getting to 90 first to have a better chance of the first kills.

Actually, while typing this, i've thought of something else.. It would allow people to actually ENJOY all aspects of the expansion for a bit aswell.

[pakoa]

I play this game to raid, everything is else is secondary by A LOTTT (although challenge modes, scenarios, and pet battles may change that a bit), so I love the rush/chaos that is the first few months of an expansion. To me, having raiding delayed is like the expac just straight up coming out a few weeks or days or whatever longer than originally planned..expect even worse cause the game IS out and I can't do anything I want to.

I totally get that for the masses though, it would be a good idea - probably a week or two. That leaves 2 weeks with doing 5 mans, scenarios, etc, 1 week doing normal modes, and then heroics are open 3-4 weeks after release for the guilds able to clear normal mode in a week.

[steveyboy]

the whole "oh shit better gear the hell up so we can jump into the new raids and fight for server firsts" feeling is what is so great about a new expansion.
Any raider that support delaying raids is too casual to call themselves a raider in my opinion.

What about those people with you know..... jobs? Who can't spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up?

[Szemere]

Look it might seem fun for those that like to take their time, but in the end, people that end up with world first after just a major content patch, also do so on a new expansion, and those people that usually take 5 times as long, will simply still take 5 times as long.

The most fun part about the new expansion, is that you have to do content really undergeared, where if you would delay it by as little as a week, you're gonna set the requirements for these guilds at full BiS from all Heroic dungeons.

People might be like "well, the guild wants to start raiding the first week when it comes out, but we don't want to force every single person to play a ton right away". Well, levels are still content you have to progress through to get towards killing bosses in raids, not because of difficulty, but because of time, and if you as raidleader fail to understand this, you're simply overlooking things. You can't just ask of Blizzard to chop the progress towards killing the highest boss in MoP in pieces. "Yeah, you first have a week for the levelling, then you have a week to do the lvl 90 dungeons, then we'll unlock the challenge modes, scenarios, and LFR, 1 week later. And a week after that we will finally unlock normals and worldbosses. And then another week later the heroics.

No, this is one big path of progression, and if you don't know how to handle this as guild, well, your problem, you didn't communicate well enough with the rest of the people you raid with. Common goals are the most important thing when making any type of team.

I'm kinda disappointed with Lore here...

[Faldric]

What about those people with you know..... jobs? Who can't spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up?

The same thing as with every other hobby, you stay an amateur. You wont become a world-class professional sportsman either without full dedication to it.

[Szemere]

What about those people with you know..... jobs? Who can't spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up?

They can quite simply... You know... Gear up slower, and get their kills slower?

The time you have to invest to get a boss down is still the same ratio compared to the faster guilds.

"Now they have it down within 3 weeks since launch, and we have it down within 5 weeks, rather than them first having it down within 1.5 weeks, and us in 2.5 weeks, it isn't fair!" It's completely fair. Less time = slower progress. Do you mind? Do you really have to have the same progress speed as someone who invests more of his time?

[Xargoth6634]

If you're doing it to polish the content some more before release great, but if you're doing it because people might rush through everything else to get there and you want to push them to see all the random non raid crap I think it's a dumb idea. If you have the kind of compulsive personality that makes you push and raid while skipping everything else maybe you should work on self-control, it'll help you in life as a whole.

<Midlevel raider, achievement whore so I really don't have a dog in this fight

[Ertuu]

What about those people with you know..... jobs? Who can't spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up?

who is forcing people with jobs, to spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up? world first and hardcore progression guilds don't accept people who can't be on that schedule...so what I really think you are talking about, is people with jobs who are mad that others have brand new gear before they do. They have to watch all the "rush" people walking around in the city on their new mounts and showing off their brand new gear, and they get angry...that's what the real issue is.

[shokter]

The same thing as with every other hobby, you stay an amateur. You wont become a world-class professional sportsman either without full dedication to it.

I got a chuckle out of the idea that a WoW player would consider him or herself a 'world-class professional sportsman'.

As for the OP...interesting idea, and even more interesting poll results...but it won't happen.

[Aqua]

*rests head on crossed fingers*

The more I think about it... the more I like this idea... I practically ATE the Cataclysm content in the span of 2 days to get raid ready... Without that on my shoulders...

...Damn. Yes... Yes. Lets do that. I'd be able to get all my professions up... I'd be able to maybe to have my Paladin and Priest ready.
We could STOCKPILE for the raids more.

Hey Blizzard brain guys. This. This man. *point*

Heck even delaying a week would do fine. Seriously. All they'd have to do is bar entry, nothing would have to be 'left out'.

[Szemere]

who is forcing people with jobs, to spend 72 hours straight leveling and gearing up? world first and hardcore progression guilds don't accept people who can't be on that schedule...so what I really think you are talking about, is people with jobs who are mad that others have brand new gear before they do. They have to watch all the "rush" people walking around in the city on their new mounts and showing off their brand new gear, and they get angry...that's what the real issue is.

Yup, I think I couldn't have put it much better myself

The only problem is, this is the kind of mentality that Blizzard is putting in the game though... "You want to clear content while it is current, but you are not so good? Here, have super-duper-easy-easier-than-heroic-dungeon-mode-LFR! You want as much Valor Points as raiders, the equivalent to the highest tier of badges back in Wrath, but you don't want to raid? Sure, you will now get it from doing pet battles and scenarios!"

I guess they have to give in a little bit, but I like how they've stood their ground in terms of raidmounts etc so far, and I hope they won't simply give in to this sudden "Hey, let's chop the progression race of the new expansion in pieces!"

Also, doing this would basically have been the same as not unlocking Inferno for Diablo 3, until 2-4 weeks after the launch. That doesn't seem sensible either, does it?

Lastly, I do normally agree with Lore tho. For example his stance on the legendaries possibly being as hard to obtain, but not class-restricated, is something I totally agree on (You want me to do what, pick between 10 raiders for a legendary?), and even though it's a less popular opinion of him (and will possibly portray me as "elitist" or whatnot, but I don't care), that heroic raid gear shouldn't be for sale in the BMAH, for money.

[PHOENIXZERO]

I made it to 85 in less than two days (still only 3rd or 4th in my guild), got a profession server first (it just came as I set a goal of getting my goggles as soon as I hit 85) and got geared (including a ton of TB farming for two of the 2H swords) in about a week, it was "fun" to an extent and I could have gotten there faster if I didn't distract myself and hadn't decided to sleep after three days. <_< I have no plans in repeating this in MoP, my gearing up is especially going to be slower as despite the pace I and a few others in the guild set for getting raid ready, we still didn't do any T11 content until a month and a half later due to having to wait for everyone else to catch up and real life getting in the way. I'm certainly going to take things slower and enjoy the content more and I don't care what other people do. So I guess I have no problem with delaying the raids though I still don't feel 100% and voted no on the poll but it wouldn't be a bad thing.

On the other hand anything to make the small group of annoying, whiny "hardcore" raider snowflakes who take this game far too seriously piss and moan is okay by me.

[Rusken]

If it was 2 or 3 weeks it wouldn't make a huge amount of difference anyway, most "Hardcore" guilds wouldn't be raiding before that anyway, they need time to farm heroics and crafted gear so they can blitz through the raids, sure the high end world first guilds would probably be raiding second week, but that's a very, very small number of players.

[Deleted]

Only IF Mists of Pandaria launches earlier.
Only IF it doesn't take longer than 3 weeks (I prefer a 1-2 week(s) delay).


It's not like people are going to raid within the first 4-5 days after launch anyway, so they can easily delay it with a week.
It takes at least 2 to 3 weeks for a monk to get to level 90, so this seems like a good point to release the raids I'd say.

[Szemere]

If it was 2 or 3 weeks it wouldn't make a huge amount of difference anyway, most "Hardcore" guilds wouldn't be raiding before that anyway, they need time to farm heroics and crafted gear so they can blitz through the raids, sure the high end world first guilds would probably be raiding second week, but that's a very, very small number of players.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

Okay, FYI.

Cata launched on a tuesday, midnight. First lockout reset was the wednesday after that, around 3-5AM, without servers going down for maintentance.

Paragon cleared like 7-8/12 normal, in that first day. Maybe other guilds too.

End of lockout 1. Would you delay it to lockout 2, they wouldn't be able to do this.

Second week, every guild that wants only a tiny shot at world firsts and realm cleared 12/12 normal fully. Most realm first guilds were progressing through normals, most run-of-the-mill guilds that cleared 11/12HC ICC10 before Cata came out, are now running Argaloth and are progressing through Halfus, Magmaw, and Omnotron.

End of lockout 2. Would you delay it to lockout 3, all those guilds wouldn't have been able to do shit on their nights. And at this point you would've only delayed it by ONE week yet.

By the end of the second week, (third lockout) even the most mediocre guilds I knew had cleared Halfus and Magmaw.


TLDR: Your statement "Most "Hardcore" guilds (excluding the high end world first guilds) won't be raiding in the first 2 or 3 weeks, and the high end world first guilds only start raiding the second week" is flat-out false, as the best guilds were raiding day1 (week 0), and the guilds you call "hardcore but not high end world first" were totally raiding during the first and second week. Delaying 2-3 weeks will make the raids available by the start of lockout 4 or 5 (the first lockout being only 27-29 hours), and your statement is not true, and thus not a valid reason to do this..

Next please.

---------- Post added 2012-06-20 at 04:43 PM ----------

Only IF Mists of Pandaria launches earlier.
Only IF it doesn't take longer than 3 weeks (I prefer a 1-2 week(s) delay).


It's not like people are going to raid within the first 4-5 days after launch anyway, so they can easily delay it with a week.
It takes at least 2 to 3 weeks for a monk to get to level 90, so this seems like a good point to release the raids I'd say.

Nah, you know what it is.

People think "well, if raidtesting can be done after launch, we're okay right?"

Point is, as soon as the game launches, who is going to do the raidtesting? Right, almost nobody, as the first priority will be getting yourself ran through heroics and stuff to gear up as good as possible. Sure, world first guilds will do so, but for the encounters to be properly tested, they want hundreds or even thousands of people running through them, not just 10 guilds trying to think up a strategy and then bailing out to farm more gear on live.

Delaying raiding won't make MoP launch earlier.

---------- Post added 2012-06-20 at 04:46 PM ----------

On the other hand anything to make the small group of annoying, whiny "hardcore" raider snowflakes who take this game far too seriously piss and moan is okay by me.

"I heard a vocal minority of elitists and they piss me off, I think they take the game too seriously, I'm totally fine in Blizzard changing this, because it doesn't affect me, but it does affect them and other high end raiders negatively, which I think is funny"

Well sir, at least you're honest about it But I think there is plenty of annoying people in every aspect of the game, and I don't see a reason to screw over the people that like to play the game to get challenged by raids, and like to compete with others in the meanwhile

[marathal]

We tried it internally with Cata. It was decided that everyone would be given until the 2nd week of January to get to 85, get a decent set of gear from running dungeons and heroics and then we would start raiding.

By the 2nd week of December, those that had taken a week off from work on release had power leveled to 85, had cleared normal and heroic, and were waiting for the other 5 to get to their level. So they tried to force an early start, tried to run them with people still in some quest greens. Needless to say it did not go well. Those that pushed to get in right away eventually left the server and the guild fell apart.


So wait a few weeks? Im all for it. The game should be experienced, not plowed through in an effort to get to the raid tiers as fast as possible, then complain a month in when complete that they are bored, when's the next tier coming out. Heck even stagger the raid releases.

Using Cata as an example;

Delay release of first raid 3 weeks from expansion release
To4W release at start of week 4
To4w release heroic start of week 5
BoT release at start of week 6
BoT release heroic start of week 7
BwD release at start of week 8
BwD release heroic start of week 9

[Deleted]

Imo the first raids are the expansions are the most epic. Dat feeling when 2 healing BoT with hpriest (me) and rshaman. Triage healing system worked only 1 week of the expansions.

Casters were also superbad with green/blue gear. Tanks were wiping floor with mages/locks on almoust every boss, 17% hit fml

[Deleted]

the whole "oh shit better gear the hell up so we can jump into the new raids and fight for server firsts" feeling is what is so great about a new expansion.
Any raider that support delaying raids is too casual to call themselves a raider in my opinion.

The same thing as with every other hobby, you stay an amateur. You wont become a world-class professional sportsman either without full dedication to it.

Here you are two retards, here you are the useless people who's ruining the WoW community. Really, I can't believe yout put the words "professional sportsman" near WoW. Do you know that WoW is a videogame right?

[Deleted]

Here you are two retards, here you are the useless people who's ruining the WoW community. Really, I can't believe yout put the words "professional sportsman" near WoW. Do you know that WoW is a videogame right?

Starcraft is a video game as well but being the world's best in it requires more personal skill than winning world championship in football.