sra in the american government. an eye opener

[Sylvre]

I find this so highly, unbelievably illogical. On one hand massive government inaction and cover ups of satanic worship, yet on the other "This man held a high position in the government, that gives him credibility." Bwah?

That's because conspiracy theories aren't logical.

[Darkavious]

That's because conspiracy theories aren't logical.

So easy to dismiss things, the evidence says otherwise.

Whats not logical is to deny what is right in front of your face.

A conspiracy theory is only that until proven by fact. Do you feel there are no conspiricies in this world at all?

Any proven conspiracy was a theory at one point, not illogical. maybe hard to believe because of how shocking they tend to be, not illogical.

[Docdruid]

The best way to dismiss something, is to trivialize it. When the first accounts of some secret societies came to light, not even hours later the Internet gets flooded by thousands of claim,s theories, etc. basically if you want to bury a truth you flood the massive medias with half truths, lies, etc.
Anyway I wish a counter force exists, some organization that works against this malevolent organizations, every action has a consequence.

[Darkavious]

The best way to dismiss something, is to trivialize it. When the first accounts of some secret societies came to light, not even hours later the Internet gets flooded by thousands of claim,s theories, etc. basically if you want to bury a truth you flood the massive medias with half truths, lies, etc.
Anyway I wish a counter force exists, some organization that works against this malevolent organizations, every action has a consequence.

We the people are that force. The internet is one of our best weapons against the flood of disinformation. I agree there is alot of bad info on the net but at least they dont have total control like they do the media.

I like your approach! I also wish there was more out there to combat the trivialization of horrid things that DO happen.

[Catta]

So easy to dismiss things, the evidence says otherwise.

Whats not logical is to deny what is right in front of your face.

A conspiracy theory is only that until proven by fact. Do you feel there are no conspiricies in this world at all?

Any proven conspiracy was a theory at one point, not illogical. maybe hard to believe because of how shocking they tend to be, not illogical.

What evidence do you have other than the word this man who is trying to SELL his "evidence" in the video and Alex Jones a certified nutjob?

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 05:45 PM ----------

We the people are that force. The internet is one of our best weapons against the flood of disinformation. I agree there is alot of bad info on the net but at least they dont have total control like they do the media.

I like your approach! I also wish there was more out there to combat the trivialization of horrid things that DO happen.

The internet is also the source of a vast flood of disinformation

[Deleted]

Go read wikipedia, this was a scare 20 year ago or whatever where the law enforcers were basically forcing the children to come up with confessions like the Salem witch trials, do you really believe that kids were flushed down toilets to abuse rooms filled with dead animals? Or that a handicapped person can can abuse 30 kids a day for 5 years or whatever it is without being caught? It's bullshit just like the witch hunts, red scare and now paedophiles/terrorists.

[Darkavious]

What evidence do you have other than the word this man who is trying to SELL his "evidence" in the video and Alex Jones a certified nutjob?

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 05:45 PM ----------



The internet is also the source of a vast flood of disinformation

The man was not selling the evidence. He presented it there for free. What was sold were books to generate money to further help people in situations like the woman at the end. Of course some one would come along and try to make him seem discredible because he trys to generate money for his cause. That is so easy to say and do.

Maybe a counter arguement about why his evidence is invalid would make your skepticism more believable, but portraying him like a greedy guy out for himself is just what the people who he his trying to expose would expect you to do.

certified nutjob? that seems highly opionated......

[Deleted]

Whilst it is true that the US had christian founding fathers, the kind of christianity they lived under is so vastly different from what it is today that it may as well be completely seperate or a different religion. If many americans looked up and read a bit about what some of the founding fathers did, they'd be horrified and disgusted. It's a dirty little secret that has been "forgotten" and whilst that's not inherently bad, people who harp on about how people should be more like that and how the country was set up on "good christian morals" would be mortified to see what went on.

Sort of OT, but a majority (perhaps even all) of the founding fathers were not christian. Most of them opposed religion, and those who did not wanted it strictly separate from government. USA was founded neither as a specifically Christian nor a religious nation.

[Sylvre]

So easy to dismiss things, the evidence says otherwise.

Whats not logical is to deny what is right in front of your face.

A conspiracy theory is only that until proven by fact. Do you feel there are no conspiricies in this world at all?

Any proven conspiracy was a theory at one point, not illogical. maybe hard to believe because of how shocking they tend to be, not illogical.

When has a conspiracy theory ever been "proven"?

[Dazzy]

"Doesn't freedom of religion count satanism too?"

not when you hurt others

I'd have to say the same about most religions, you know, the ones that most wars were started by, or fought over.

OT: If this were true it wouldn't surprise me at all. Over time there have been subsets of most religions sacrificing people in the name of their beliefs.
Whether it be chickens/goats/the "devil"/nonbelievers etc.


Organized religion is the true evil (not just satanism)

[Deleted]

The man was not selling the evidence. He presented it there for free.

Oh?

What was sold were books to generate money to further help people in situations like the woman at the end.

Ah, there you go. Selling stuff. - The only reason he made up the stuff he claims.

Of course some one would come along and try to make him seem discredible because he trys to generate money for his cause.

Well duh!

Here's what he should have done instead:
Taken the "evidence" to the media, or the courts if illegal.

... (pssst: This is your cue to start rambling about how the media is all owned by 3 people, and the courts are controlled by the politicians, who are in actuality lizard people from another galaxy) - (and no: Alex Jones does not count as "media". He's more of a... What's the word... Oh, yes: Village idiot.)

If his evidence only warrants being placed on a website, that also happens to sell books and semi-related goods and contained his other ramblings about chemtrails (another idiotic conspiracy theory) and how the Oklahoma city bombing was done by the government, he falls squarely into a category of people, that you really should distance yourself from if you intend to be taken seriously.

The guy retired from the FBI over 3 decades ago, and was a complete loon at the end of his life.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 06:54 PM ----------

When has a conspiracy theory ever been "proven"?

Watergate.
Solid researching done by serious journalists, aided by a genuine high-ranked whistle-blower, resulting in evidence that actually held up in court.

There was also Iran-Contra, The Mafia, Operation Menu and of course The Gunpowder Plot, that inspired the comic, that inspired the movie "V for Vendetta".
Movies have even been made about many others, including Erin Brokovich, The Informant, and several about the lengths that the tobacco industry went to in covering up the negative effects of smoking.

[Sylvre]

Watergate and Iran-Contra are hardly conspiracy theories in my books. What I meant were suggestions of massive coverup by the government and the media that goes on for years and defies common sense (e.g. truther, birther, this stuff, aliens at Area 51, etc).

[Scratches]

Whether this is a bona fide conspiracy or not: satanic worship? Really? That's so...childish...

How shameful that the US was a nation founded with Christian ideals,

Uh...might want to brush up on your history there, buddy...

[Darkavious]

[QUOTE=LazyJones;17196386]Oh?


Ah, there you go. Selling stuff. - The only reason he made up the stuff he claims.


Well duh!

Here's what he should have done instead:
Taken the "evidence" to the media, or the courts if illegal.

... (pssst: This is your cue to start rambling about how the media is all owned by 3 people, and the courts are controlled by the politicians, who are in actuality lizard people from another galaxy) - (and no: Alex Jones does not count as "media". He's more of a... What's the word... Oh, yes: Village idiot.)

If his evidence only warrants being placed on a website, that also happens to sell books and semi-related goods and contained his other ramblings about chemtrails (another idiotic conspiracy theory) and how the Oklahoma city bombing was done by the government, he falls squarely into a category of people, that you really should distance yourself from if you intend to be taken seriously.

The guy retired from the FBI over 3 decades ago, and was a complete loon at the end of his life.[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 06:54 PM ----------

You claim he was a loon, thats fine. he wasn't.

The media is contolled by the few, no not lizard aliens, but extremely wealthy people. It's nice to see you actually read up a little bit but it appears you only did so to prove a point that is all your opinions.

Selling books and selling evidence are two different things.

He did give the evidence to the media AND the courts. Not much you can do when the courts are part of the problem.

I dont mind if you don't take me seriously, the point is not to convince YOU. it is to get the knowledge out to more people. There are millions of people who do beleive in these theories.

For example one that is more publisized is the disclosure project. More that 90% of americans believe we are not alone in the universe AND that the government is covering up much more than they lead to believe. thats 90%. people do take it seriously. thanks for your point of view though.

thanks for cueing me in too, although just because you know some of the theories and throw that in first does not disprove anything at all.

[icedwarrior]

And being American myself I think my ancestors would be rolling over in their graves is they saw what idle sheep we have become while letting our government shit on and abuse the control they have of our military to do little more than babysit the rest of the world.

Well, that didn't take long. Just because people aren't overtaking their government doesn't mean they're complacent "sheep".

[Darkavious]

Watergate and Iran-Contra are hardly conspiracy theories in my books. What I meant were suggestions of massive coverup by the government and the media that goes on for years and defies common sense (e.g. truther, birther, this stuff, aliens at Area 51, etc).

So basically you make the terms of what fits conspiracy theory and tell others what it is.

Watergate WAS a massive cover up.....

[icedwarrior]

So basically you make the terms of what fits conspiracy theory and tell others what it is.

Watergate WAS a massive cover up.....

I'm not sure they're synonymous. Sure, one usually follows the other, but they don't mean the same thing.

con·spire
1
a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement <accused of conspiring to overthrow the government> b : scheme
2
: to act in harmony toward a common end <circumstances conspired to defeat his efforts>

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiring

cov·er–up
1
a : a device or stratagem for masking or concealing <his garrulousness is a cover–up for insecurity> b : a usually concerted effort to keep an illegal or unethical act or situation from being made public
2
: a loose outer garment

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cover+up

[Zoldor]

Doesnt freedom of religion count satanism too?

You are free to believe anything, you are not free to do anything. This is most commonly an issue in drug cases were someone claims my religion says its okay and I'm just practicing, well if practicing means violating a law it is illegal. Indian land and things like that bring in different set of nuances. You can worship satan all day long, but if that worship means killing a person or individual with rights then your worship crosses over into illegal activity. Belief and action are two separate things. Our constitution protects completely only Belief.

[Darkavious]

I'm not sure they're synonymous. Sure, one usually follows the other, but they don't mean the same thing.

con·spire
1
a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement <accused of conspiring to overthrow the government> b : scheme
2
: to act in harmony toward a common end <circumstances conspired to defeat his efforts>

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiring

cov·er–up
1
a : a device or stratagem for masking or concealing <his garrulousness is a cover–up for insecurity> b : a usually concerted effort to keep an illegal or unethical act or situation from being made public
2
: a loose outer garment

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cover+up

Its a secret agreement to cover up something. you defined it perfectly. thank you. they go hand in hand with what we are talking about. what did you mean by linking those definitions. maybe I missed your point.

[Deleted]

You claim he was a loon, thats fine. he wasn't.

He was.

He believed that the american government is currently deliberately spraying poison from commercial airliners all over the world.
And that you can recognize this, by the length of the contrail.

He believed that the Oklahoma City bombing was done by the US government.
And that the CIA is performing child trafficking.

He was most definitely a loon at the latter part of his life.

The media is contolled by the few

Owned. Not controlled.
And by organizations, not people.

He did give the evidence to the media AND the courts. Not much you can do when the courts are part of the problem.

There you go. You defended one conspiracy theory (that his evidence is true) by inventing another (the courts are in on the conspiracy).
You claim that there is evidence for the first, but this is conveniently negated by the second, so you don't have to explain why nothing is done.

The real reason why nothing is done, is because he didn't have any actual evidence.

There are millions of people who do beleive in these theories.

I don't really care if there were billions - except that it is a bit sad.
What matters is what can be proven, not what can be believed.
His ideas have the same impact on reality as the belief that invisible blue unicorns exist on the north pole. None. Zero. Zilch.

For example one that is more publisized is the disclosure project. More that 90% of americans believe we are not alone in the universe AND that the government is covering up much more than they lead to believe. thats 90%. people do take it seriously. thanks for your point of view though.

Again: One conspiracy theory does not in any way prove another.
But I'm surprised that this figure is as low as 90%. It should be 100%. Of course they are covering facts up. Some of those UFO's are secret flight tests of new airplanes, like the stealth planes. It's their damn job to cover those up! - The 90% figure says nothing about WHAT is being covered up.

And the same holds true for the disclosure project: Zero actual evidence.