sra in the american government. an eye opener

[Kulanae]

To the OP:

At the time of his invenstigation into the McMartin Preschool incident, Gunderson was dating one of the parents of a child involved. This alone colors his investigation. The "archeologist" was paid by the parents which also colors his "research." Here is a report from another source concluding that all of the substance under the undisturbed concrete slab of the preschool was dated to before 1966 when the preschool was built.

http://www.uic.edu/htbin/cgiwrap/bin...viewFile/77/96

The McMartin case was a complete travesty of justice which runied the lives of an innocent family in a case of mass hysteria and paranoia.

[Extrazero8]

YOU DID NOT WATCH THE VIDEO

Yeah I did.

You say he presented no evidence..... Here we go

There are multiple blue prints of the underground tunnels in the school. He shows it.

I didn't see any blueprints. All I saw was some not-to-scale rough sketches someone did and one map of an area someone actually used a ruler on.

None of that is evidence of Satanic conspiracies.

There are pentagram covered plates recovered at the site. He shows it.

Yeah it looked like some little kid drew a few stars on a dinner plate as an art project.

That's not evidence of Satanic conspiracies.

There is testimony from an expert archaeologist who said that the tunnels were buried in, and the soil they used to bury it does not match the local soil.

Assuming that the archaeologist is right. All that is evidence of is that someone trucked in some dirt. Not of Satanic conspiracies.

There's more, you didn't watch it.

I watched what you linked in the first post. If you have another video link then post it.

There is a separate site he investigated that burned to the ground mysteriously the day after he brought it to light. he shows it.

He shows a site where a house or building used to be. The site looked abandoned of years and there was overgrown plants scattered about. I see no evidence of a fire there.

Even if it was a bunch of photos of a burnt out building. That's only evidence that there was a building there at one point and sometime later that building caught fire.

The are broken sacrificial alters. He shows it.

He shows a bunch of rocks with a flat surface on the top of it that he calls "probably an alter". He then shows another flat surface, this time its broken, that he calls an alter. All he is doing is making wild-ass assumptions.

That's not evidence of Satanic conspiracies.

He has testimony form PLENTY of people. 75 children made the same claims.

The kids in that case made a lot of claims.
Per "http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/24/us/longest-trial-post-mortem-collapse-child-abuse-case-so-much-agony-for-so-little.html?pagewanted=3&src=pm"

Ultimately about 360 of the 400 children interviewed described abuse. The children told of being molested by the teachers, playing a ''Naked Movie Star Game'' and being photographed; they told of animal sacrifices and hidden passageways under the school.
The prosecution asserted that child pornography was the motive of the alleged molesting. But a worldwide search by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Interpol found no photographs or films, nor did extensive archeological excavations on the school grounds turn up animal bones, hidden passageways or other evidence.

Curt Livesay, a prosecutor in Mr. Philibosian's office who is now Assistant District Attorney, recalls late-night meetings and extensive internal debates over how to proceed. ''We sat down and looked at all the charges, all the defendants, all the evidence,'' he said. ''The evidence against the five was weaker. It was fragmented. Not all those people were there at the various times. We had a continuous presence by the key figures, Mr. Buckey and his mother.''
Soon after, one of the prosecutors, Glenn Stevens, quit the district attorney's office and began to help the defense. ''I just realized we just did not have it,'' he recalled last week. ''The evidence against Peggy was a carbon copy of Betty Raidor. Then my doubts about Ray solidified. And Judy Johnson was psychotic before she filed the first police report.'' Further, he said, the police letter to parents contaminated the case from the start. ''It was almost like skywriting it.''

You people try to act like you watch the vid and just post your hateful ignorant messages that are 100% false. HE SHOWS THE EVIDENCE IN THE FILM.

HE SHOWED NOTHING BUT ASSUMPTIONS AND GUESSES THEN FILLED IN THE GAPS WITH HIS OWN IMAGINATION.

Some people will never believe until you hold their hand and walk them through the concentration camp.

Ted Gunderson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Gunderson

The last years of Ted Gunderson's life were spent warning people of what he called Chemtrails and of planetwide Satanic and New World Order conspiracies. Gunderson had identified military bases he said were responsible for dumping unidentified poisons around the world from unmarked aircraft which he indicated killed wildlife and perhaps even humans. Gunderson spent years speaking on this and has made a number of videos. He also claimed, at a 1995 conference in Dallas, that a "slave auction" in which children were sold to men in turbans had been held in Las Vegas, and that four thousand ritual human sacrifices are performed in New York City every year. He also claimed that the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was done by the United States government.

Don't be so gullible that you'll take the ramblings of a madman as gospel.

[Darkavious]

wanna clear something up here. I said many times in my posts I did not think this was the smoking gun. I clearly said it warrented further investigation, which was completely and utterly denied. Evidence that he showed could very well not be what is needed to prove s.r.a or get convictions.

It was most certainly enough to warrant an investigation and thats what the man was calling for. Many people can make valid argument on the sanity of this man, but he had NO diagnosis of any kind. Thats just your opinions.

I have said time and and again to the people who simply want to say " no your wrong this guy was just crazy, conspiracy theories are illogical" etc etc etc. Tell that to the people they walked through the concentration camps. Only after the people are caught would people like the skeptics in this thread admit they were mistaken.

I am happy to see the amount of people who have viewed this thread.

There will always be the skeptics. thats fine. In some cases the questions they ask only lead to the proper facts coming to light.

you "experts" have a diagnosis of John decamp too?

[Extrazero8]

wanna clear something up here. I said many times in my posts I did not think this was the smoking gun. I clearly said it warrented further investigation, which was completely and utterly denied. Evidence that he showed could very well not be what is needed to prove s.r.a or get convictions.

It was most certainly enough to warrant an investigation and thats what the man was calling for. Many people can make valid argument on the sanity of this man, but he had NO diagnosis of any kind. Thats just your opinions.

I have said time and and again to the people who simply want to say " no your wrong this guy was just crazy, conspiracy theories are illogical" etc etc etc. Tell that to the people they walked through the concentration camps. Only after the people are caught would people like the skeptics in this thread admit they were mistaken.

I am happy to see the amount of people who have viewed this thread.

There will always be the skeptics. thats fine. In some cases the questions they ask only lead to the proper facts coming to light.

The problem you have is that there is no evidence that any of what that guy claims to have happened actually happen. There is no evidence anyone was harmed. There are no dead bodies and no blood thrown about the walls. There isn't even evidence of animal abuse.

How about you tell us who was harmed by these unnamed/unknown Satanist and show us the evidence?

[rhorle]

you "experts" have a diagnosis of John decamp too?

Sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeCamp

After investigation, authorities determined the abuse allegations were baseless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankli...se_allegations

He also is the lawyer for a militia group that claimed the execution of a murderer of a state police officer was related to scandals involving President Clinton. Then the governor of Arkansas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_of_Montana

You keep bringing up people that are already beliving in a New World Order conspiracy and that people in power are satanic cult members. That seems to be a general theme. That people that aren't in power are accusing those that are in power of being satanists while their own party affliiation keeps getting shut out of said political organization.

Just because people served in government at one time, or are currently serving doesn't mean they can't be crazy or go crazy. It also doesn't mean that what they say has to be the truth. Providing actual facts instead of random names you pulled out of the anti-Satan handbook would be a better way to try to prove whatever point you want to prove.

[Darkavious]

Sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeCamp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankli...se_allegations

He also is the lawyer for a militia group that claimed the execution of a murderer of a state police officer was related to scandals involving President Clinton. Then the governor of Arkansas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_of_Montana

You keep bringing up people that are already beliving in a New World Order conspiracy and that people in power are satanic cult members. That seems to be a general theme. That people that aren't in power are accusing those that are in power of being satanists while their own party affliiation keeps getting shut out of said political organization.

Just because people served in government at one time, or are currently serving doesn't mean they can't be crazy or go crazy. It also doesn't mean that what they say has to be the truth. Providing actual facts instead of random names you pulled out of the anti-Satan handbook would be a better way to try to prove whatever point you want to prove.

I am not trying to "prove" anything, as I said in the orginal posts I am trying to shed light on a subject that could POTENTIALLY be harmful to children.

All you do is link wiki.

They COULD be crazy but neither of them have a diagnosis. nothing. You are just another in the line who like to state opinion as fact.

Nothing you have linked I have not already seen.

The evidence provided by Mr.gunderson was simply to open an investigation, people want bodies and DNA or they say it didnt happen. The man claims a cover-up has taken place. Do you really think I am going to find the evidence sitting on my computer at home that this man could not find. It was covered up.

Mr.Gunderson put together enough evidence and testimony to warrent an investigation. You dont need a body to start an investigation, it could be said you need one for a conviction, not to officially investigate.

You are a skeptic, thats fine. You either dont read all my posts in this thread or don't rememeber waht I said. Answer me this, as I have been asking it in my posts.

What do you think it took for the people in germany and around europe to believe what was happening in the death camps?

Even people who were literally told that you go there to die did not believe and really thought that they were being relocated.

The skeptics had to be walked through it, to physically see the bodies. So clearly you fall under this catergory, no matter what people tell you may be going on your a skeptic and will find any reason to say it is not happening, ie calling people crazy just because you think so, you are not a doctor. that is your opinion.

Your wiki link literally says nothing to back up what you were saying, its like a bio of the man with absolutlely no reference to his sanity.

[frogger237]

While I'm sure there are probably some retards sacrificing people and shit, I highly doubt there would be any schools sacrificing children and shit in secret tunnels, especially because it would be pretty easy to notice a bunch of kids going missing in the area every year.

[Darkavious]

probably not going on much in schools like the franklin incident, i agree, but here are some startling statistics from the justice department.

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

Nearly 800,000 children younger than 18 are missing each year, or an average of 2,185 children reported missing each day.
More than 200,000 children were were abducted by family members.
More than 58,000 children were abducted by nonfamily members.
115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. These crimes involve someone the child does not know or a slight acquaintance who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.

I understand these are not proof of SRA, its just startling to see those kinds of numbers. kids go missing ALOT. it is noticed.

[rhorle]

I am not trying to "prove" anything, as I said in the orginal posts I am trying to shed light on a subject that could POTENTIALLY be harmful to children.

All you do is link wiki.

So you don't care if what you are trying to "shed light on" is actually incorrect and false? You haven't proved any of your statements either beyond a biased video and name dropping. I link Wikipedia because despite its flaws it provides the best information to counter what you've been saying. But if you aren't trying to say its fact, then why are you trying to spread something that might be false? Isn't it in the best interest of everyone if you only try to spread truthful and factual information? Instead of potentially creating a bigger mess and more confusion by spreading rumors and false information?

I think this topic has run its course now that you are bring Nazi germany and genocide into the picture. It doesn't matter that Mr.Gunderson got an investigation, what matters is that it found his conclusions to not be factual and to infact be incorrect as many of the posters in this thread have pointed out to you. I'm not a skeptic I just don't believe things when easily found information points otherwise.

Is your evidence as compelling or real as walking through a Nazi death camp? If you have that kind of proof why haven't you taken it to the Authorities and press rather then the MMO-Champion off topic forums? Surely if you had such vibrant and real proof you wouldn't only share it here and actually do the right thing by exposing the "evil doers".

My wiki links point to the beliefs and political affiliations of two of the people you name dropped. Both which have questionable ties to questionable anti-government organizations. Of course they are going to try to claim that people are Satanic for refusing to join their cult/militia/christian-political-party. http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/t...terrorism.html also does a good job at showing how crazy Mr.Gunderson was. The fact that a conspiracy theory website is hosting his video's rather then a history website or a reputable press agency speaks volumes.

Not everything on the internet is true you know. Or do you really believe that 4,000 human sacrifices a year can go unnoticed by any one but Mr.Gunderson?

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 11:20 PM ----------

I understand these are not proof of SRA, its just startling to see those kinds of numbers. kids go missing ALOT. it is noticed.

Yes, crime happens. But none of that has anything to do with Satanic cults or anything.

[Darkavious]

So you don't care if what you are trying to "shed light on" is actually incorrect and false? You haven't proved any of your statements either beyond a biased video and name dropping. I link Wikipedia because despite its flaws it provides the best information to counter what you've been saying. But if you aren't trying to say its fact, then why are you trying to spread something that might be false? Isn't it in the best interest of everyone if you only try to spread truthful and factual information? Instead of potentially creating a bigger mess and more confusion by spreading rumors and false information?

I think this topic has run its course now that you are bring Nazi germany and genocide into the picture. It doesn't matter that Mr.Gunderson got an investigation, what matters is that it found his conclusions to not be factual and to infact be incorrect as many of the posters in this thread have pointed out to you. I'm not a skeptic I just don't believe things when easily found information points otherwise.

Is your evidence as compelling or real as walking through a Nazi death camp? If you have that kind of proof why haven't you taken it to the Authorities and press rather then the MMO-Champion off topic forums? Surely if you had such vibrant and real proof you wouldn't only share it here and actually do the right thing by exposing the "evil doers".

My wiki links point to the beliefs and political affiliations of two of the people you name dropped. Both which have questionable ties to questionable anti-government organizations. Of course they are going to try to claim that people are Satanic for refusing to join their cult/militia/christian-political-party. http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/t...terrorism.html also does a good job at showing how crazy Mr.Gunderson was. The fact that a conspiracy theory website is hosting his video's rather then a history website or a reputable press agency speaks volumes.

Not everything on the internet is true you know. Or do you really believe that 4,000 human sacrifices a year can go unnoticed by any one but Mr.Gunderson?

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 11:20 PM ----------



Yes, crime happens. But none of that has anything to do with Satanic cults or anything.

Man o man.This topic has not "run its course becuase im bringing nazis and genocide, that is the biggest conspiracy EVER to come to light. You are simply attempting to take control of a thread and again, act like your opinions are facts.

Then you bring nazis up in your next paragraph.....

You cant even answer the question I posed to you and you only further my point, you say " Is my evidence as compelling or real as a walk through a nazi death camp?? OF COURSE NOT, if it was than it would be FACT. The point was people like you denied it like you are this thread and were DEAD wrong.

You are a skeptic, and use wiki as your only source, your actually trying to derail a thread that is only trying to help children. If Mr. gunderson was wrong so be it, maybe after looking at this thread some one might look a little closer after their child and avoid an abduction. you make terrible points and argumentsand talk yourself in cirlces. you dont like this dont read it. Im only trying to help people. clearly your not one of them.

Mr.Gunderson didnt get his investigation. i dont know how many times i said that. you dont even make sense half the time.

you need an ego check you dont know everything. wiki link inc!

[rhorle]

You cant even answer the question I posed to you and you only further my point, you say " Is my evidence as compelling or real as a walk through a nazi death camp?? OF COURSE NOT, if it was than it would be FACT. The point was people like you denied it like you are this thread and were DEAD wrong.

That paragraph is a contradiction. One moment you are saying that you have no facts and the next moment you are saying I am dead wrong aka I am factual wrong. You even capitalized it to emphasis how wrong I am, but you have no facts to show that? So how do you know that I am DEAD wrong? And not just dead wrong? Or just wrong? Or that I am not wrong but correct? If after all you have no facts.

How is your thread only trying to help children when you admit you have no factual information? Wouldn't lying to children and scaring them with false information in fact hurt them? And if Mr. Gunderson didn't get his investigation why did you state he did in your last post? You know where you said "The evidence provided by Mr.gunderson was simply to open an investigation"?

So if there was no actual investigation maybe his evidance wasn't enough to open one after all? Or that there was no investigation because he had no merit or actual proof? Just because he was a special agent in charge of multiple FBI offices doesn't mean everything he does is true. He can lie, he can go crazy, and he can find something out of nothing. Why is it that only he has found all of this evidence but no others have? Or has he been the only one to investigate it with no one else in all these years doing the same thing he did and reaching the same exact conclusions.

[Starskee]

Satan's greatest trick was convincing the world that he doesn't exist. -C.S. Lewis

[Darkavious]

That paragraph is a contradiction. One moment you are saying that you have no facts and the next moment you are saying I am dead wrong aka I am factual wrong. You even capitalized it to emphasis how wrong I am, but you have no facts to show that? So how do you know that I am DEAD wrong? And not just dead wrong? Or just wrong? Or that I am not wrong but correct? If after all you have no facts.

How is your thread only trying to help children when you admit you have no factual information? Wouldn't lying to children and scaring them with false information in fact hurt them? And if Mr. Gunderson didn't get his investigation why did you state he did in your last post? You know where you said "The evidence provided by Mr.gunderson was simply to open an investigation"?

So if there was no actual investigation maybe his evidance wasn't enough to open one after all? Or that there was no investigation because he had no merit or actual proof? Just because he was a special agent in charge of multiple FBI offices doesn't mean everything he does is true. He can lie, he can go crazy, and he can find something out of nothing. Why is it that only he has found all of this evidence but no others have? Or has he been the only one to investigate it with no one else in all these years doing the same thing he did and reaching the same exact conclusions.

shouldnt even respnd to you. the DEAD wrong was in reference to the "skeptics" who did not believe that there actually were death camps.They were DEAD wrong and wouldnt beleive it until they were physically shown. get it?

You make acusations of people being crazy and link wiki bios to show they are that have absolutley no relation to their mental state in question. You say he had an investigation, then he didnt. you dont even have your facts straight.

The fact I was talking about is the fact Mr.gunderson deserved at least an investigation and did not get it. you are extremely argumentative with no valid points. asking me if I am with holding evidence.... I cant even take anything you say seriously. And clearly you dont want to listen to what im trying to say you just want to sound right and argue. go to bed or something. make your own thread on people who annoy you.

Scaring children, no sir, you just try to flip flop everything, its ridiculous.

I could do that to any arguement that isnt 100% proven, its not hard and does not denote intelligence.

[rhorle]

You make acusations of people being crazy and link wiki bios to show they are that have absolutley no relation to their mental state in question. You say hed an investigation, then he didnt. you dont even have your facts straight.

You can't be taken seriously while your argument equates to "No you!" You said

Mr.Gunderson didnt get his investigation. i dont know how many times i said that. you dont even make sense half the time.

How are you helping children by telling them things that you don't know to be true?

Mr.Gunderson is crazy because he thought that the Oklahoma City bombings was done by the US Government and stated so in 1995. That is an easily proven factual incorrect statement. Have you ever thought that he didn't get an investigation because his accusations had no merit or factual basis? One person not having a new investigation or doing his own investigation (to cover the bases if you claim he did or he did not investigate himself) does not mean no one else has never investigated.

Not to mention there have been investigations into his claims of what went on underneath the school. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial couldn't have happened with out an investigation. His claims didn't warrant an investigation because his claims had no merit. Other people provided all the evidence needed to show what really happened.

[nyc81991]

I understand why people would out right say "There is no way things like that could happen", But crazier things have happened in the past. We do not live in a world where everyone has the same morals, religions, and ways of thinking.

I say keep an open mind when it comes to things like this. You don't have to believe everything you hear but don't discredit everything either.

[Darkavious]

I understand why people would out right say "There is no way things like that could happen", But crazier things have happened in the past. We do not live in a world where everyone has the same morals, religions, and ways of thinking.

I say keep an open mind when it comes to things like this. You don't have to believe everything you hear but don't discredit everything either.

well said.

[Sunshine]

We don't allow threads about conspiracy theories, and we don't allow threads about religion. This is both.

Closed.