GW2 = Diablo 3 but bigger?

[Bacon of Light]

Up until Diablo 3 i couldn't understand how you could play a game multiplayer with bosses etc and not have the Tank + healer + DPS group makeup. Even in GW1 you kind of needed Tanks / Healers etc.

My very first multiplayer game, Duke Nukem 3D, has no separate tank/dps/healer roles. I was all three of them combined. Also, my RPG experience doesn't start with table-top RPG but with Dragon Quest.

With those mindsets, my very 1st MMORPG, the World of Warcradft, shocked me with the idea of the holy trinity for dungeons.

[Fumu]

This solo vs. party rpg thing is ancient, really, and both playstyles are viable.

Before games like EQ1, old single player PC RPGs generally went in two directions: The MMO (or more accurately, DnD) route where you controlled an entire party with a built in "holy trinity" usually a buffer, cleric, couple of ranged, a rogue and a warrior like Might and Magic, or the Solo way where your character generally had it all in one like Anvil of Dawn or Stonekeep. Usually if solo you could either choose to be more caster or melee oriented but it was better to stick with one despite having access to both, and self heals were either in potions or rare spells/buffs.

[Drakhar]

First of all you should never ever ever mention A-net games and Blizzard games in one sentence. Especially not on a WoW-Fansite in a litte GW2 sub-forum. How could you?!?!?!

haha icwutudidthar... but it's sadly true. MMO-Champion lesson for you OP: don't mention a Blizzard game outside of the WoW (or Diablo 3) subforums, unless you are bashing them with impunity. You will only get raged at for daring to invoke the name of the company that created the game that spawned this site, so in short: how dare you.

The more you know.

Less wise-assery answer: there are actually quite a few parallels that could be drawn, despite being completely different genres. You should've highlighted them a bit more to give this thread more direction. Then again, it was DoA just because you had the audacity to compare GW2 to a Blizzard game, so don't beat yourself up over it.

[Deleted]

I haven't played Guild Wars 2 myself, but Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are completely different. There isn't really a comparison to be made except for there not being healers. It is like you said though, there's not a typical healer/tank but you DO keep your teammates alive with CC and buffs and there are still heals in the game spread out among the classes.

So err, like Diablo 3 then? ^^ Similar play style, there's no holy trinity in either, you don't have a set healer, you do have heals that can effect other players but not as effectively and you also have buffs/cc to support your teams as well. This is the case in both GW2 & Diablo 3.

So yes they are similar in that respect.

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 01:40 PM ----------

Less wise-assery answer: there are actually quite a few parallels that could be drawn, despite being completely different genres. You should've highlighted them a bit more to give this thread more direction. Then again, it was DoA just because you had the audacity to compare GW2 to a Blizzard game, so don't beat yourself up over it.

Aha this so much! (; Oh and don't be surprised if your thread gets closed within the next hour or two by the moderators. That tends to happen as well.

[Mif]

haha icwutudidthar... but it's sadly true. MMO-Champion lesson for you OP: don't mention a Blizzard game outside of the WoW (or Diablo 3) subforums, unless you are bashing them with impunity. You will only get raged at for daring to invoke the name of the company that created the game that spawned this site, so in short: how dare you.

I've seen plenty of people infracted for bashing Blizzard games in the GW2 subforum, but I've never seen anyone infracted for bashing GW2 in the Wow subforum...

[Herecius]

The similarities somewhat begin and end with the fact that both games contain swords.

They aren't even similar in the idea that both don't have tanks, because this is not true - you can absolutely be a tank in Diablo 3, even though aggro doesn't work like it does in WoW.

[Polarthief]

gw2 is nothing like diablo 3 nuff said

Read the post please.

@Op: Yes. I've tried beta and it works on you actually dodging attacks and staying out of the fire, which is something you can do only 10% of the time in D3, but GW2 will have a better system for it.

[Drakhar]

I've seen plenty of people infracted for bashing Blizzard games in the GW2 subforum, but I've never seen anyone infracted for bashing GW2 in the Wow subforum...

From what I've seen, thankfully, it hardly ever comes up. Unlike the communities for certain... other MMOs that have released recently, the GW2 one is amazingly civil by comparison. The only things I see are the real trollololols who show up here to talk about how terrible GW2 is and receive a swift strike from the banhammer.

[Arrowstormen]

They are very different experiences. WoW and GW2 are more similar to each other than GW2 and Diablo III.

[Fencers]

I hope that made sense and i hope fans of WOW, Diablo and GW recognize i am not stirring as i love all the games so far, just curious.

Guild Wars as a franchise has more design similarities with ARPGs [the genre of Diablo] than MMOs such as Everquest and World of Warcraft. Especially the first Guild Wars series which only lacked an isometric camera from an ARPG.

Very little has changed in the design style of Arena.net between their first Guild Wars title and Guild Wars 2.

A somewhat perceptive comparison, OP. Most people are dim or outright stupid when it comes to game design. So yea, many posts in this thread are not good.

[Forfax]

Gw2 is Daoc 2.0 ... for me atleast.

[Arrowstormen]

Guild Wars as a franchise has more design similarities with ARPGs [the genre of Diablo] than MMOs such as Everquest and World of Warcraft. Especially the first Guild Wars series which only lacked an isometric camera from an ARPG.

Very little has changed in the design style of Arena.net between their first Guild Wars title and Guild Wars 2.

A somewhat perceptive comparison, OP. Most people are dim or outright stupid when it comes to game design. So yea, many posts in this thread are not good.

What do you know?

Also, talking about Guild Wars and the camera, can you switch what mouse button to press for which of the two mouse button actions? Because I couldn't find it under controls.

[Prepared]

Firstly, I apologize for making what appears to be a comparison of the the different games, but it's important to understand what's included and not included in the games mentioned here. Given that the subject of this message thread was about GW2 = Diablo 3 but bigger, there is an inherent comparison factor involved. The opinion reflected below is my own and doesn't reflect anyone or any organization.

More accurately stated:
Guild Wars 2 = Diablo 3 + World of Warcraft + more + less

The Diablo 3 part is:
No holy trinity as mentioned primarily in this post
Grouping with small numbers of players
Dungeons of either 4 or 5 member teams
No subscription cost - Pay for the game that's basically it
Pay real money for cosmetic or other types of items - However you call this, a marketplace, auction house, they are similar in that you use real money to buy things for your game play experience

The WoW part is:
Persistent game world by server selection with option to move servers for cash
Player vs Player structured and rated or ranked and world - Ok, World vs World is slightly different but close in that there are large scale PvP battles involved
Selection of different races and professions (classes)

The more part is what is in GW2 but not included in the two games above:
1. Dynamic events which change areas of the world - These largely depend whether the events are successfully completed or not. These include the large dragons later in the game.
2. Level scaling to match the area the player is in for joining friends and helping with events
3. Guest move to another server without World vs World PvP participation

The less part is is what is not in GW2:
(To be more inclusive of whether or not something is included or not, I need to make note that WoW has a number of things that aren't in Guild Wars 2. This is as of this writing June 19th, 2012. Maybe we'll see some of these things added in the future in an expansion pack which is to expand on the functionality of the game but right now, these things are not in Guild Wars 2.)

1. Large scale dungeon raids in groups of 10 and 25 player format - large scale dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 such as dragon battles are not close enough to include here because of the pick-up option. With dungeon raids, there is preparation involved which includes gathering appropriate classes, voice chat, commanding direction of the strategies involved, discussion of who does what and when, etc.
2. In game macros with addon support
3. Instancing of the client game executable to allow multiple copies of the game to run on a single computer. Guild Wars 2 restricts this functionality by preventing a second or more copies run on the same computer. This doesn't mean that Guild Wars 2 can be tricked into running multiple copies, just that out of the box, it can't be done without something special done to achieve it.


All three games include some form of questing. Whether they are called hearts, quests or stories, doesn't matter, they are all the same thing with a goal to complete some collection or kill some monster type of activity. The only difference is how they are acquired by the player.

All three games include leveling a character created and expanding on the abilities of the character through game play. Whether this is called unlocking a skill, discovering a spell, it's basically the same thing. As you play, you get more abilities to use to destroy monsters in the games.


I reserve the right to add or remove elements to this post as I may have forgotten a few things. Just going by what I remember playing the games and information found through the Internet.

Prepared,
The massive 50 multiboxer WoW Kil'Jaeden (formerly Aegwynn)
The 10 multiboxer of Guild Wars 2
The 20 multiboxer of Diablo 3
The 15 multiboxer of Everquest
The 13 multiboxer of Guild Wars
The attempted 2 multiboxer of SWTOR
The attempted 5 multiboxer of Final Fantasy Online
The attempted 4 multiboxer of the Matrix Online
The attempted 4 multiboxer of Age of Conan
The attempted 4 multiboxer of Dungeons and Dragons
The attempted 2 mutliboxer of Warhammer Online

[Airsoul]

I have cleary updet a few people by drawing comparisons in games. Its nothing new though, either is playing more than one game at a time.

Anyone here remember when playing more than one game was actually a big deal...Mario and Sonic, you actually needed differnet systems! People used to compare Mario and Sonic all the time. Mortal Combat and Street Fighter, there is another two.

WOW and GW1 are great games, i bet GW2 will be great.

On a side note: Mario and Sonic, they the same game or different? In the same context of D3 and GW2 being the same. There is a thinker.

[Grraarrgghh]

Guild Wars as a franchise has more design similarities with ARPGs [the genre of Diablo] than MMOs such as Everquest and World of Warcraft. Especially the first Guild Wars series which only lacked an isometric camera from an ARPG.

Very little has changed in the design style of Arena.net between their first Guild Wars title and Guild Wars 2.

A somewhat perceptive comparison, OP. Most people are dim or outright stupid when it comes to game design. So yea, many posts in this thread are not good.

I know this was brought up about a month ago in The One Thread, and a handful of us who have actually played both Diablo 3 and GW2 agreed that some of the combat systems were similar.

Pretty much every post in this thread that is some kind of "WTF OP U STOOPID" or "I haven't played x but..." is absolutely unnecessary. Why even bother posting if you have nothing valid to say?

@OP: Ignore the idiots, they obviously don't see the ARPG influences in GW2's design. As before mentioned, the combat systems variate due to GW2's weapon swapping, but the basic idea is the same.

[Newbryn]

I can see where the OP is coming from I also felt the same way, if I recall don't ask me for quote but the original guild wars was what the creator wanted diablo to be like.

[Niwoe]

I'm sure we could find similarities between GW2 and many different games and types of games. Why? Arenanet are gamers. They are pulling what they think are the best ideas from games they have enjoyed and trying to change them and implement them in their game world. There's nothing wrong with that. Just don't compare it to one game and write it off as another of that. They've talked about how DAOC, or FPS games like Battlefield have influenced their game design before. Mike O'Brien used to work for Blizzard and in fact was a developer of D2. So yes, we are going to see those influences in this game. As long as Anet is about taking the best and most fun systems from other games and leaving out the things that are terrible.... I'm all for it .

[Malthurius]

I can see where the OP is coming from I also felt the same way, if I recall don't ask me for quote but the original guild wars was what the creator wanted diablo to be like.

Yeah, the original GW. But even that game operated very differently from diablo.

Here is a list of differences off the top of my head.

Diablo 3 has no open persistent world, while GW2 does.
Diablo 3 only allows for a maximum of 4 players in the same game at once, effectively making it a Co-op Rpg, not an MMORPG like GW2 which allows for 100s of players on the same map.
Diablo 3 is a top down dungeon crawler with hack-n-slash combat. GW2 is a 3rd person MMORPG with action combat.
Diablo 3 revolves around gear. GW2 revolves around skill.
Diablo 3 is a linear experience both story and content wise. GW2 is an entire explorable world where story is an option, not the lead.
Diablo 3 has multiple difficulties for content. GW2 does not.
Diablo 3 has no character creation outside of picking a class. GW2 does.
Ect.

No, they are nothing alike, not even the same genre aside from RPG, but RPG is a broad genre which can encompass a lot, and Diablo 3 and GW2 are on opposite ends of the genre.

[Grraarrgghh]

Yeah, the original GW. But even that game operated very differently from diablo.

Here is a list of differences off the top of my head.

Diablo 3 has no open persistent world, while GW2 does.
Diablo 3 only allows for a maximum of 4 players in the same game at once, effectively making it a Co-op Rpg, not an MMORPG like GW2 which allows for 100s of players on the same map.
Diablo 3 is a top down dungeon crawler with hack-n-slash combat. GW2 is a 3rd person MMORPG with action combat.
Diablo 3 revolves around gear. GW2 revolves around skill.
Diablo 3 is a linear experience both story and content wise. GW2 is an entire explorable world where story is an option, not the lead.
Diablo 3 has multiple difficulties for content. GW2 does not.
Diablo 3 has no character creation outside of picking a class. GW2 does.
Ect.

No, they are nothing alike, not even the same genre aside from RPG, but RPG is a broad genre which can encompass a lot, and Diablo 3 and GW2 are on opposite ends of the genre.

All of these points fit in the "but bigger" caveat in the thread title.

The real similarities are in the combat mechanics, the differences there being dodge + not having 2 attacks bound to mouse clicks.

[Malthurius]

All of these points fit in the "but bigger" caveat in the thread title.

The real similarities are in the combat mechanics, the differences there being dodge + not having 2 attacks bound to mouse clicks.

IF those points count as "but bigger" then I could say that Final Fantasy Tactics is Super Mario RPG, but bigger. They're both RPGs but they have such radically different design decisions you'd just be grasping for straws trying to make your point.

Even combat mechanics are quite different for a couple of reasons. The lack of an active resource being one of them.