Help with fire rotation

[dendory]

So I'm a frost mage, always have been, but lately I've been trying to get my fire rotation setup, but I'm running into problems. Basically right now my fire spec is doing less damage than frost, so obviously I'm missing something. I do around 16-21k dps frost, and 13-17k dps fire. I don't know if it's gear, talents or the rotation. I made a quick video of it so if anyone wanna take a stab at it..

Fire: youtube.com/watch?v=9viJi7Wxtlo
Frost: youtube.com/watch?v=xTqm4iUj_98

[Deleted]

The normal Fire rotation is Flame Orb > Living Bomb > Hotstreak! > Fireball = if moving Scorch.
Use Combustion when you got a nice Ignite, I usually aim for a 20k+ Ignite.

You are using Mage Armor in your video, switch that to Molten Armor, and glyph it.
Also you dont need Improved Counterspell in PvE, take Impact instead. Its your most important AoE ability to spread DoTs.

And i recommend that you read the Fire Mage PvE guide: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4.3-Compendium

[Deleted]

Well for one you are using Mage armor in fire, instead of molten armor

Being close to a target is a bit of a draw back for fire, becuase you might more likely trigger Hot Streak 2 times without using it.

Your spec is not right, though not a huge problem for 1 target fights.
You want 2/2 Impact and 2/2 Pyromaniac. There is nothing to interupt in DS, hence improved counterspell is a waste of talent points and Improved fireblast is pretty shit

You dont show your Glyphs, make sure you have:
Pyroblast
Fireball
Molten armor

Your hitrating is way to low at sub 12%, needs to be atleast 16.5% or preferably 17% or as close to it as you can get. Use an addon like Reforge lite or a reforge website to see how close you can get.

You have not reforged everything, like your cloak and shoulders which has mastery on it as well as a mastery gem. I believe the 397 cloak is an upgrade over the PVP one due to the loss of the Resil stats.

Never use any +40 gems unless they are Intellect, otherwize always use 20/20 gems or 25/25 where one of the stats is intellect.

The staff you have isnt great and its missing the power torrent enchant. Lightning rod is your best staff or Dragonwrath, but yeah.
Pick up the belt buckle and enchant your belt with it to allow for an extra 40 intell gem

Missing enchants on wrists ( 50 Intell) , weapon (Power torrent) and cloak (Lightweave) dont help much

That pvp trinket or any pvp gear (wrists, boots, etc) are better replaced by most any pve gear.

If you have the Raid finder tier gloves, the 4 piece bonus by far outwieghs the Liquid gloves you wear. Keep the gloves though for when you can change them out for your shoulder tier piece.

Your Critical mass is not nearly up 100%, it needs to be up > 95% of the time, start any fight with a hard cast pyroblast or if need be a scorch.
Use scorch also if you are not getting a Hot Streak proc to refresh Crit mass.

You completely mistimed your Combustion, which now (guestimated) probably ticked for 3k dps (35k total) vs 9k dps (100k total) if you had cast it 5 seconds earlier

[Rekindled]

The information about rotations starts at 1:45 BUT looking at your links it is not just orders you need help with.
This video covers everything you could want to know about fire mages for dungeons and basic LFR.

[Urmydinner]

Let me redirect you to the sticky at the top of the forums.

[Deleted]

.. and you didn't use scorch so critical mass wasn't applied to your target until your first Hot Streak.

[Deleted]

This video covers everything you could want to know about fire mages for dungeons and basic LFR.

The mana conserve spec is only needed at Madness IF that... well timed Mage armor, Gems and Evocation get me by even on Madness HC.

Nice video, though it needs fixing in 2 parts

1) Opening
You DO NOT open with scorch, yes you want the Crit mass debuff, but ... As you say Pyroblast applies it as well.
Scorch doesnt have a travel time, well minimal anyways, while Pyro does have one, Scorch will hit for ~13k while pyro will hit straight up for 22k and leave the dot on it for 6k ticks 5 of them for 50k damage vs 13k damage.

2) Combustion
Inite, does not tick per 3 seconds, instead per 2.
Living bomb on the other hand by default will tick per 3 seconds, not per 2.
The difference makes it more clear and might be worth noting that having Pyroblast DOT on the target is prefered but that having a nice STACKED ignite up on the target is a must and is the determining factor. Bar offcourse LB which should have a 90% uptime to aim for anyways.
This would make in your calculation:
8000 / 3 = 2666
15000 / 2 = 7500
3000 / 3 = 1000
Combustion total: 11.166

Afterall a 20k ignite will help a bigger amount to combustion in this example vs having the Pyro DOT up on the target

Futher the only thing rolling into combustion is your current spell power and haste and stuff.
LB Up on the target for example is recalculated to the current haste and spell power levels. If you proced Power Torrent, no need for LB to be refreshed for the increased damage on LB to count into Combustion. Same with a proc of the insignia, the increased haste will change: 8000/3 to 8000/2.7 (random example in numbers not real world) increasing the yield to combustion.

3) Added information
a) In the 1505 haste rating you may want to add the reason for this is to get an extra tick on combustion.
b) A slightly higher haste rating of IIRC 16% assuming the 3% Netherwind and 5% raid haste will push Fireball sub-2-second cast, which will aid in stacking ignite which aids to Combustion damage.

[nimryas]

Also, you might want to get hit capped as I noticed you missed a spell in your youtube video. And your crit is waaaaaaay to low (kind of fixed by using molten core armor) You also used combustion the moment your ignite ran out, ignite is a big chunk of your combustion's damage so you have to watch out not to fudge yourself, rather have a decent ignite + lb then waiting for decent ignite + pyro dot + lb. This counts especially for low ilvl gear because you cant get that much more crit, unless you're full lfr i guess.

[Dukim]

First its just me or you acually Missed combustion in the vid ?XD get hit cap
after you fix the hit cap Dont start fight without combustion its BIG dps lose specialy when you have yor trinket, start the fight with clean combustion and hit cap try to shoot the first combustion when trinket procs combustion dmg is auto increased by 20-25%
dont ever shoot the hotstreak than right after fireball you ruin the ignite make a half seconds delay , your gear isnt even close to be optimized dont exept doing high dps with it get 4 set fix your hit cap (yea the 3rd time i say it) your stats:
haste until cap>crit >mastery >haste (your not in position to go TC more than that)
fix enchants, gems go to dammy and dont leave it until its dead or until you learn it

The normal Fire rotation is Flame Orb > Living Bomb > Hotstreak! > Fireball = if moving Scorch.

actually if you will do that rotation the rng will make you quit, use the hotstreak to stack ignite personaly i wait for fireball crit before i shoot the hotstreak
the whole idea of fire is that you play rng and you can never do the same dps on 2 fights unless your realy lucky But you can add more chance so instead of 50-50 you will have 70-30 .

means that you take tiny risk of losing hotstreak (i doubt if it even call a risk) from fireball crit to get higher ignite and a fast combustion usage that can increase your combustion in 20-30% And make you shoot it faster (wich in some fight its the diff of anther combustion) i also doubt if all of it will happen but what you did here is you took tiny chance of losing small amount of dps and made it a bigger chance of big dps increase

also anther exm is if you have ignite on target and living bomb is about to end simpely i delay it for 2-3 seconds to see if i can stack the ignite or if i need to delay the ignite so it will be bigger again sacrafcie small amount of dmg to take big chance of dps increase .

thats bassicly the idea of fire and you dont realy need to learn all the calculations just use combustion helper after time you will learn it from experience

[Maldic]

Being close to a target is a bit of a draw back for fire, becuase you might more likely trigger Hot Streak 2 times without using it.

Totally wrong. Closer you are the better as your ignite will have a higher chance of stacking and not falling off

[Magemaer]

This forum is doomed. All we see is posts of guys who can't even read a simple guide asking to coach their dps. No theorycraft discussion. No mop discussion. Gosh, if every class forum was like the druid forum.

[mrgreenthump]

No theorycraft discussion. No mop discussion. Gosh, if every class forum was like the druid forum.

No people looking at the stickies before they post on random threads... there is a Mop discussion, its just a sticky^^

[Deleted]

Totally wrong. Closer you are the better as your ignite will have a higher chance of stacking and not falling off

Distance in no way shape or form figures into Ignite stacking, that is assuming you are trying to dget Ignite stacking with FB and Pyro only.
The travel time of each cast is the same, thus Ignite will stack as a result of the critical hits.
Please enlighten me if I am wrong, but do include as to how this would then be possible?

For ideal circumstances you want to ensure your FB cast is <2 seconds, this is reachable at 16% GEAR haste, just higher than the popular 2005 combustion cap hitting the 1.99 cast time. This then assumes no latency, no pushback...

[Maldic]

the travel time is 0 if your in melee range where it is > 2 sec if your at max range. how can you not see how that would impact your ignite stacking

[Kurzior]

Travel time of casts only comes into play when you use a cast time spell immediatly after an instant cast, and only if the cast time spell also has a travel time (meaning scorch is unaffected).

Assume you cast Pyro with HS followed by a fireball. The HS starts flying immediately and hits the boss 1 second later. At that point, your gcd ends and you begin to cast fireball. It takes 2 seconds to cast and another 1 second to land so it hits 3 seconds after the first Pyro hits.

In any other case, the cast time of the spell dictates the time difference between the first and second hit because the gcd is not a factor. Casting 2 fireballs back to back will result in the first landing 2 seconds before the second hit, and no matter what the travel time is, the spells will always land 2 seconds apart.

[Deleted]

the travel time is 0 if your in melee range where it is > 2 sec if your at max range. how can you not see how that would impact your ignite stacking

How does "Every cast has 0 travel time" vs "Every cast has 2 second travel time" vs "Every cast has 10 second travel time" impact ignite stacking?
Ignite stacking is impacted by one factor alone, The time between the first and second (and subsequent) crits must be AND > 0.2 seconds (guestimated) and < 2 seconds. This will allow for "proper" and full ignite stacking, travel time in no way shape or form comes into that.

Only exceptions as mentioned by Kurzior are non-travel spells.

[Dukim]

Closer you are the better as your ignite will have a higher chance of stacking and not falling off.
those who not agree didnt killed ragnaros as fire.

[Deleted]

So Dukim, please do explain, how does it allow you to stack ignite better if you are closer to your target?

As far as I am aware, the only way to stack ignite is to get two crits in a row preferably inside of 2 seconds of eachother.

Also please explain how being closer to Raggy on Heroic actually helps in killing him? Seems to me there are many different factors going to killing raggy on HC...