Back to the 1930s: the hammer, sickle and swastika

[Stelio Kontos]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0a26a...44feabdc0.html

Ten days before Greece’s elections, a member of the neo-nazi party, Golden Dawn, repeatedly hit a female candidate of the communist party while appearing live on a television talk show and threw water over a female candidate of the radical left Syriza. The communist had just called him a “bloody fascist” and he addressed her as a “commie”. Greek elites (journalists, intellectuals, politicians) condemned his violence almost unequivocally. Yet the ugliest part of this incident was the readiness of many lay people to defend him, even cheer him, while the neo-nazis rose in the polls.

Unfortunately this episode was not isolated. Despite the narrow victory of a centrist party in Sunday’s vote, almost every day extremist violence breaks out in Athens and beyond. Neo-nazis against immigrants, anarchists and leftists. Anarchists, ultra-leftists and other fringe groups of the nationalist-populist camp against riot police, mainstream politicians, journalists, liberal intellectuals, even artists. Add to this a surge in crime and rising tolerance of violence and you have a clearer picture of today’s Athens. Does it remind you of anything?

That’s right. Greece’s situation recalls the Weimar Republic. Violence (and its banalisation), hate, rage, polarisation, fear, despair and resignation. As for the police, it has already taken sides: neo-nazis won by a landslide in polling stations where officers were assigned to vote.

The electoral results demonstrate the dangers to the Greek democracy. The centre-right New Democracy party may have edged ahead, but the parliament, for the first time in Greek history, will be full of extremists. Besides the neo-nazis and a Stalinist communist party there is Syriza, whose leader is a fan of Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chávez. It is difficult to find a notable dictator, even among the great butchers of the 20th century, without a steady following in the Greek parliament. The three protagonists of the dreadful TV incident were also elected. Imagine them together in routine parliamentary proceedings. Golden Dawn members have already made it clear they would come down hard on any member of parliament saying something they strongly disapprove of.

How did Greece, the birthplace of democracy, come to have a parliament full of hammers, sickles and swastikas? This is not how it was ever meant to be. After winning independence in the late 1820s, Greece was attached to the west and particularly to the UK, which protected and patronised Greece until it was replaced by the US in the late 1940s. This patronage had some beneficial side effects. Greece was always on the winning side: in the first world war, the second world war, the cold war. From 1929 to 1980 Greece had an average growth rate of 5.2 per cent and was admitted to the European Community as early as 1981 partly as a reward.

The rest is history: welfare populism, cronyism, statism and corruption can describe the Greek political system for most of the period from 1981. This is why Greek people have finally punished the two former main parties (New Democracy and the social-democratic Pasok party) for leading Greece into a horrible economic crisis with huge debts and deficits and a corrupt, inefficient state, unfit for reform and captured by special interests.

This failure of the mainstream political system and of the short-sighted, growth-stifling austerity policies enforced by the European leadership led Greece to the precipice. Greek people are disillusioned, miserable, exasperated and very frightened. They seem to be falling into the same trap again, by rewarding demagoguery, political opportunism and arrogant ignorance. Their knee-jerk reaction was to vote for parties such as Syriza, the rightwing nationalist and populist Independent Greeks and the Golden Dawn. These parties became vehicles for a popular backlash, gathering more than 41 per cent of the vote.

However, more than 50 per cent of Greeks voted for parties strongly committed to European unification. These parties will probably form a government that must achieve the impossible: renegotiate better bailout terms and enforce reforms in the face of fierce opposition from Syriza.

Mario Vargas Llosa wrote recently in El Pais that “Greece is the symbol of Europe and symbols cannot be abolished without that which they embody collapsing and degenerating into the barbaric confusion of irrationality and violence that Greek civilization liberated us from”.

Yet Greece is only a small step away from civil unrest and total collapse. It does not deserve this. Europe has the power to push us off the cliff but also the ability to hold us back and save us. This is not just an economic decision; it is largely a political decision. A fatal mistake will haunt Europe for ever.

Thanks to decades of graft, corruptions, and ineptitude from PASOK and New Democracy, and the predatory, crippling "austerity" measures implemented at the behest of the EU's masters in Berlin, the Greek parliament is now crawling with hardline leftists, Stalinists and other assorted Communists, and neo-Nazis.

Sit right down, everyone, and watch the pre-meditated destruction of a modern country!

[Bakis]

crippling "austerity" measures implemented at the behest of the EU's masters in Berlin,

If the greeks government did not lie and missmanage their economy so bad there would be no need for loans comming with the demand for reform and cut-downs.
Without Germany, Greece would be bankrupt already, many greeks are really ungrateful who like to blame others for their own short commings.
The blame lies at the hand of corrupt politicians and the doubtful moral of the population that see tax evasion as a national sport, noone else.

[Deleted]

Thanks to decades of graft, corruptions, and ineptitude from PASOK and New Democracy, and the predatory, crippling "austerity" measures implemented at the behest of the EU's masters in Berlin, the Greek parliament is now crawling with hardline leftists, Stalinists and other assorted Communists, and neo-Nazis.

Sit right down, everyone, and watch the pre-meditated destruction of a modern country!

Economic hardship has always been an environment where hardliners can thrive on the public disaffection with the mainstream parties. Why are you blaming the EU though - Greece lied about its figures just to get into the EU, you had 4% inflation and un-employment running at nearly 1/10. With their new interest rates they went on a massive spending spree nearly doubling public sector wages, and offering them an insanely generous pension (I've heard figures up to 92% of final salary)!?! Tax evasion was/is rife and some Greek people seem to be living under the mis-aprehension that it's everyone else's fault.

[Stelio Kontos]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...gn=newsus15061

Europe’s establishment is delighted by the victory of New Democracy and pro-asphyxiation bloc. This relief is unlikely to last much beyond today, if that.

Greece’s new leaders have a mandate from Hell. Almost 52pc of the popular vote went to parties that opposed the bail-out Memorandum in one way or another. There is no national acceptance of the Troika’s austerity policies whatsoever.

The hard-Left Syriza party of Alexis Tsipras is arguably more dangerous in opposition, now fortified with big bloc of seats in Parliament. He can lacerate the government without responsibility as the state sheds 150,000 public sector workers, a fifth of the total.

It was for this outcome that the Greece’s elected government was toppled last year in an EU Putsch. We now learn from ex-premier George Papandreou that this was "all Sarkozy’s fault".

France’s leader refused to let Papandreou call a referendum on the bail-out terms (which would almost certainly have passed), and Chancellor Angela Merkel went along with this shoddy act of EU colonialism. The EU threatened, in effect, to cut off Troika payments. The PASOK government was replaced by an EU-appointed technocrat.

A frightening precedent was set, and for no purpose. All the EU has achieved is to replace a truculent Greek parliament with one that is completely unworkable.

As for New Democracy, it cannot meet the terms of each quarterly Troika payment in the future even if it secures the support of PASOK socialists because the terms are – politically – impossible to meet.

Year after year of "internal devaluation" will drive unemployment to catastrophic levels before it breaks the back of the labour movement sufficiently to clear the way for drastic pay cuts. It is basically a Fascist policy. Mussolini pulled it of in 1928 under the Lira Forte policy, but he had coercive advantages.

The electoral settlement is not decisive enough to lance the boil either way so there will no recovery of investment or hope of return to normal life. Even big companies have lost access to routine trade credit. The pro-Memorandum chorus say Greece would face chaos if it left the euro. What do they think it is now?

The agony will drag on until some dramatic event intrudes.

It would be a different story if the Troika knew what it is doing. It does not. The experts from the IMF have been overruled by the ideologues from the ECB. The necessary liberation of euro exit was ruled out from day one – obviously – so the Troika has been making things up as it goes along.

Their original forecasts massively understated the level of GDP contraction because they falsely assumed that the Greek private sector would take the baton from the shrinking government.

All that happened is that the state stopped paying its bills to private subcontractors, pushing thousands of firms into bankruptcy. The economy spiralled downwards with an entirely predictable ferocity.

This is what Professor Vanis Varoufakis from Athens University has to say about the Troika policies (via Naked Capitalism):

"Consider what they are telling the Greek people: They are saying that Greece, to remain in the Eurozone, must,

(a) carry on borrowing from the EFSF at 4% (and thus adding to Greece’s public debt) in order to pay the ECB (which will be making a 20% profit from these payments, courtesy of the fact that it had previously bought Greece’s bonds at a 20% to 30% discount)

(b) reduce public spending by 12 billion euros in order to be ‘allowed’ to borrow for the benefit of bolstering the ECB’s profits from these transactions involving bankrupt Greece.

If the Devil wanted to guarantee that Greece is pushed out of the Eurozone, he and his evil handmaidens could not make up the above, satanic, scenario. Meanwhile, the same happens in Spain, where the government is forced to borrow money (at nearly 7%) it can hardly raise in order to shore up banks that are borrowing from the ECB (at 1%) to lend to the Spanish government (at 7%) so that the latter can… bail them out. Not even the sickest of minds could make this up!"

Indeed, you couldn’t make it up.

Yes, it's all the fault of those stupid, Lazy, corrupt Greeks alright, just like decades ago when the same ethnic, almost racial, polemics were used against people in southern Europe.

[Deleted]

Yes, it's all the fault of those stupid, Lazy, corrupt Greeks alright, just like decades ago when the same ethnic, almost racial, polemics were used against people in southern Europe.

Greece lied about the state of its economy to get into the EU and then lived beyond its means from there on in - did you think the party was going to last forever? Cuts are always painful, the UK is currently also implementing vast, painful cuts across the public sector but it needs to be done. We're slowly, begrudgingly coming to terms with the notion that you can't spend what you don't have. When will Greece?

[Kalyyn]

I don't see why having communists and fascists in power conflicts with it being the birthplace of democracy. It sounds to me like these people were democratically elected, after all. I don't agree with fascism or communism, but this idea of "you can elect your own leaders, but you can only pick from ones that the rest of the world approves of" is arguably worse.

[Deleted]

I doubt it will, no matter how bad the economic situation gets, devolve to the level of the Military Junta from the late 60s - early 70s. Most populations have learned the very valuable, but painful lesson that far-Right governments always implode, throwing a lot of shrapnel out at the masses as they do and modern Communists don't seem to have any concrete offers of solutions to the short-comings of modern mixed Capitalism.

Plus, I think it's important to acknowledge that the anti-Soviet belligerents of the Cold War have, I believe, finally realised that supporting far-Right/quasi-Fascist and National Socialist regimes to combat the Reds is a bad idea too. That and there is simply no need to do so any more (Note: I never thought there was a need for it). So, even if a far-Right group were to be elected, they could unlikely sustain themselves without external backing/blessing.

Votes for either parties are likely just the articulation of a few frustrated people (like all the Primaries votes for the Le Penn family and their goons come every French election), showing they are not pleased with how the current system is operating, but I would hope, there would never be a majority of people that felt pushed enough to vote in Stalinists or Fascists. People should be (and most are) aware that those systems do not work.

[Deleted]

Economic hardship has always been an environment where hardliners can thrive on the public disaffection with the mainstream parties. Why are you blaming the EU though - Greece lied about its figures just to get into the EU, you had 4% inflation and un-employment running at nearly 1/10. With their new interest rates they went on a massive spending spree nearly doubling public sector wages, and offering them an insanely generous pension (I've heard figures up to 92% of final salary)!?! Tax evasion was/is rife and some Greek people seem to be living under the mis-aprehension that it's everyone else's fault.

While that's true, a good deal of the blame lies in the euro-zone. Why? because Greece could do all that thanks to:
-uncontrolled cohesion and structural funds, which were used in those pensions and public wages instead of developing the economy, thanks to this lack of control
-Germany cheating their way into the Euro: as shocking as it seems, in the years 2000-2002, Germany wouldn't have fulfilled the by-then-very-strict conditions required to be able to enter the Euro. But as it was still the most powerful economy, Germany imposed a relaxation of the requirements, relaxation which opened the way for Greece into the Euro (before then, Greece was not considered a viable member of the common currency).
-Greek Govt.'s "creative accountancy" was a wide open secret. Everybody knew about it but turned a blind eye, because it was an opportunity for huge profits. Who profiteered from it? It was mostly German banks, which in turn gave largess of credit to the Greek Govt., credit which wouldn't have gotten if it wasn't because it was part of the Euro and because it was a good partner in shady business.

So what happened to Greece is basically a poor man being treated to a banquet of rich men, eating splendidly, and when the time to pay comes, the people who were supposed to pay for it suddenly realize in their pockets they have only the money to pay for themselves... and the poor man now has to wash the dishes to pay for his food. It's either that or escaping through the toilet window, as Syriza and Golden Dawn suggest.

[dapperedodo]

U can't simply blame the countries that try 2 prevent Greece ending up like a 3rd world country. I wonder how Germany,The Netherlands and other northern countries don't get the same problems and are even somewhat able 2 help the countries in the south. I know why simply cause the gouverments do the stuff that's needed to keep our heads above the water.

Southern Europe is simply fucking stuff up for theirselves and need to blame none but theirselve for the mess they're in right now.

[Authary]

So what happened to Greece is basically a poor man being treated to a banquet of rich men, eating splendidly, and when the time to pay comes, the people who were supposed to pay for it suddenly realize in their pockets they have only the money to pay for themselves... and the poor man now has to wash the dishes to pay for his food. It's either that or escaping through the toilet window, as Syriza and Golden Dawn suggest.

No, no, no, no, it's a normal guy who was invited to a fancy restaurant where everybody has to share the bill and said "don't worry, I have enough money to pay for my meal". Everybody knew he was poor but since they were friends they figured he would make an effort or something. Turns out the diner's over and he said "Lol sorry guys, turns out I can't pay ! You'll pay for me, right ? Right ? Guys ?".

[Kivimetsan]

I don't see why having communists and fascists in power conflicts with it being the birthplace of democracy. It sounds to me like these people were democratically elected, after all. I don't agree with fascism or communism, but this idea of "you can elect your own leaders, but you can only pick from ones that the rest of the world approves of" is arguably worse.

Well said ^_^

just because I don't believe in Communism or Fascism yet another country elects either democratically, why should my opinion matter? The only thing which is the problem is democracy and it freakin' sucks. No im not authoritarian, I just don't believe that 51% of the people have a majority say over the rest of us 49%... now im going off topic.

Anyway back on topic...

It's silly, I really feel for the Greeks especially when I look at the poll results and all the top majorities are all Fascist, Communist and Socialist (all three are Socialist in essence). You would think that they would remember back to the start of this crisis and realize that the people who got them into the problem in the first place was a Socialist government.

So the real question is:

Why would you turn back to the evil that caused this in the first place (sorry but this is in-debatable); extremely socialized welfare state, massive public sector spending and a population that ironically loved the 'free shit' associated with a highly socialized country, but hated taxes? Hey lets just pull the money out of our butts!

Sorry to say this, but the trend for Europe as I see it is a steep fall into tyranny. When there is an economic crunch (1920's) people turn to the most radical political ideologies as the answer. All I see is: Euro break up, countries falling into Socialism, Communism and Fascism.

Why can we not learn from our failings and realize government is not the answer of our woes?

[Deleted]

It isn't surprising for people to vote for such extremes once the majority of the centre parties have shown such disregard for the people's interests.

The same thing is happening all over Europe, but in smaller scales. In my own country a lot of people voted for the Party for Freedom, which is against immigration.
But that party also has some extreme views, something a lot of people don't agree with. But since the big traditional parties never did anything to fix the problems with immigrants, this party could get all those votes easily.

It's the big traditional parties' fault for extreme parties to win votes.

[Deleted]

No, no, no, no, it's a normal guy who was invited to a fancy restaurant where everybody has to share the bill and said "don't worry, I have enough money to pay for my meal". Everybody knew he was poor but since they were friends they figured he would make an effort or something. Turns out the diner's over and he said "Lol sorry guys, turns out I can't pay ! You'll pay for me, right ? Right ? Guys ?".

So his friends decided to pay his share of the bill, then a few weeks later they asked him to pay it back and Greece was like "OMG WHY YOU ALWAYS ON MY CASE?!"

[Bakis]

Greece been one of the countries that gained the most and payed the least to the EU per capita as well, this has been the case well forever.
Sometimes enough is enough.

[Kivimetsan]

U can't simply blame the countries that try 2 prevent Greece ending up like a 3rd world country. I wonder how Germany,The Netherlands and other northern countries don't get the same problems and are even somewhat able 2 help the countries in the south. I know why simply cause the gouverments do the stuff that's needed to keep our heads above the water.

Southern Europe is simply fucking stuff up for theirselves and need to blame none but theirselve for the mess they're in right now.

Pfft ignorance is bliss, amiright?

Your answer is the government didn't do enough? Please elaborate on this 'idea'...

See the problem was, government did TOO MUCH. Too much Public free shit for the people that loved the free shit but hated giving up there money through taxation to receive and pay off the debt on said free shit.

Also Northern Europe IS NOT immune to this problem. They're just lucky that they can keep the ponzy scheme going longer than Greece did.

The eventual end to all this is ALL of Europe (mabye not all, but at least he heavily socialised) fall into huge amounts of debt that is practically impossible to pay off.

Please tell me something: What happens when one does not pay his debt? Does government come along and hold a gun to your head and make you pay? Yes. So when a country owes another country money and wont pay, what does the country that lent them the money do? They hold a gun to the indebted country and say PAY.

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 10:57 PM ----------

While that's true, a good deal of the blame lies in the euro-zone. Why? because Greece could do all that thanks to:
-uncontrolled cohesion and structural funds, which were used in those pensions and public wages instead of developing the economy, thanks to this lack of control
-Germany cheating their way into the Euro: as shocking as it seems, in the years 2000-2002, Germany wouldn't have fulfilled the by-then-very-strict conditions required to be able to enter the Euro. But as it was still the most powerful economy, Germany imposed a relaxation of the requirements, relaxation which opened the way for Greece into the Euro (before then, Greece was not considered a viable member of the common currency).
-Greek Govt.'s "creative accountancy" was a wide open secret. Everybody knew about it but turned a blind eye, because it was an opportunity for huge profits. Who profiteered from it? It was mostly German banks, which in turn gave largess of credit to the Greek Govt., credit which wouldn't have gotten if it wasn't because it was part of the Euro and because it was a good partner in shady business.

So what happened to Greece is basically a poor man being treated to a banquet of rich men, eating splendidly, and when the time to pay comes, the people who were supposed to pay for it suddenly realize in their pockets they have only the money to pay for themselves... and the poor man now has to wash the dishes to pay for his food. It's either that or escaping through the toilet window, as Syriza and Golden Dawn suggest.

Agreed.

Also look at Iceland, supposedly the majority of the 'debt' wasn't even there debt, it was off shore banks.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the Greek debt was similar to Icelands.

Also its all derivatives, the money doesn't even exist, its just a ponzi scheme drafted up by the banks who controlled the Greek government so they could make them into a debt ridden hell hole hoping that the Greeks would sell off all there assets (Islands, Lottery, etc...).

[Bakis]

The blame for this lies with the greeks, the greek government and the EU for its lack of exterior review and failsafe mechanics that made it go this far.
Greece was allowed to missbehave and be the spoiled, lazy and cheating kid to years by the EU but the ultimate blame lies with Greece and noone else.¨

The big question is not if Greece will make it out in one piece but if the EU are able to reform itself and quickly enough.

[Stir]

It isn't surprising for people to vote for such extremes once the majority of the centre parties have shown such disregard for the people's interests.

The same thing is happening all over Europe, but in smaller scales. In my own country a lot of people voted for the Party for Freedom, which is against immigration.
But that party also has some extreme views, something a lot of people don't agree with. But since the big traditional parties never did anything to fix the problems with immigrants, this party could get all those votes easily.

It's the big traditional parties' fault for extreme parties to win votes.

I don't agree.

You see, humans as individuals are pretty smart animals. However, in large groups, we tend to panic and stampede.
The central left and right wing parties generally want what's best for the people/economy (respectively) and can often come to good solutions if they work together. However, the voters see a program, and think only about their own immediate benefit. They really don't care about any sort of bigger picture.
For instance: If one party promises better care for the elderly, ALL the elderly are going to vote for that party, completely disregarding any other points on that party's agenda that doesn't directly influence them. Student benefits? You could be a nazi who wants all people of X race to leave the country, but if you have the best student benefits in your program, you'll get most students to vote for you. At the moment, mortgage cuts (from taxes) are a big thing... The Party for Freedom opposes the abolishment of mortgage cuts, so most (aboriginal) home owners are tempted to vote for that party, even though they have a pretty nationalist agenda.

When a crisis happens, this phenomenon is only strengthened. People fear for their own well-being, and will support whichever party they think has the solution. Extremist nationalists and communists have an easy go in such a scenario. Extremist nationalists will simply imply that everything that's wrong with the country is because of foreigners. Extremist communists will imply that financial equality is easy to obtain (while ignoring the fact that any working communist system has to rely on both democracy and an absence of finance; something that simply can't happen in today's capitalist world, since it means you won't be able to trade with other countries).
The average voter is a panicky animal who doesn't see the long-term ramifications of their voting choices. All they want is instant reform so that they can live normal lives again, and preferably get ahead while doing so. Extremist parties promise that they can give the voters this instant gratification (while they can't). The voters feel that at least someone cares about them, and they'll vote for extremists.

[Kivimetsan]

I don't agree.

You see, humans as individuals are pretty smart animals. However, in large groups, we tend to panic and stampede.
The central left and right wing parties generally want what's best for the people/economy (respectively) and can often come to good solutions if they work together. However, the voters see a program, and think only about their own immediate benefit. They really don't care about any sort of bigger picture.
For instance: If one party promises better care for the elderly, ALL the elderly are going to vote for that party, completely disregarding any other points on that party's agenda that doesn't directly influence them. Student benefits? You could be a nazi who wants all people of X race to leave the country, but if you have the best student benefits in your program, you'll get most students to vote for you. At the moment, mortgage cuts (from taxes) are a big thing... The Party for Freedom opposes the abolishment of mortgage cuts, so most (aboriginal) home owners are tempted to vote for that party, even though they have a pretty nationalist agenda.

When a crisis happens, this phenomenon is only strengthened. People fear for their own well-being, and will support whichever party they think has the solution. Extremist nationalists and communists have an easy go in such a scenario. Extremist nationalists will simply imply that everything that's wrong with the country is because of foreigners. Extremist communists will imply that financial equality is easy to obtain (while ignoring the fact that any working communist system has to rely on both democracy and an absence of finance; something that simply can't happen in today's capitalist world, since it means you won't be able to trade with other countries).
The average voter is a panicky animal who doesn't see the long-term ramifications of their voting choices. All they want is instant reform so that they can live normal lives again, and preferably get ahead while doing so. Extremist parties promise that they can give the voters this instant gratification (while they can't). The voters feel that at least someone cares about them, and they'll vote for extremists.

I disagree when you said humans are smart, other than that you're pretty right on.
Most people have no idea how crap the current system is, all they think is "oh we'll just vote these guys out next election for the guys we voted out in the last election".

You don't cure skin cancer by sun baking, same goes for changing the political problem... you don't fix government by creating more of it.

[Deleted]

Agreed.

Also look at Iceland, supposedly the majority of the 'debt' wasn't even there debt, it was off shore banks.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the Greek debt was similar to Icelands.

Also its all derivatives, the money doesn't even exist, its just a ponzi scheme drafted up by the banks who controlled the Greek government so they could make them into a debt ridden hell hole hoping that the Greeks would sell off all there assets (Islands, Lottery, etc...).

The German banks were the ones putting a lot of pressure on Merkel to make her accept bailing out Greece... someone that went against the Maastricht treaty, and that Merkel herself didn't want to do, due to her political stance.
And they didn't do it because they took pity on the Greek citizens...

[Laize]

I've been saying this for almost a year now. Greece is going to become hard line communist or fascist in the future if they haven't either left the EU or been kicked out.

There's no solution for them if they don't control their own currency.

Repudiating the debt is not an option worth considering if they ever hope to function in the future.