lol at the attempts to make Displace Beast useful

[Karnalsyn]

I suppose that could be a valid argument....but don't forget you could also take incarnation and get the ability to cast prowl while in combat to get a re-opener.

[huth]

This is more of a reason why WC is better than FS. You already have 115% run speed in Catform so you don't need the boot enchant or FS to get out of stuff if you're quick enough, but WC has a decent chance of letting you get off extra Shreds. You don't need for someone to run all the way out before you jump to them, wait that extra second to get off a Shred then WC to the nearest melee who's maybe only a few steps ahead of you anyway - you'll gain as much as FS would of given you.

If there is a lag with the server updating your position it becomes trickier but I'd still be extremely surprised if clever usage of WC didn't net you more DPS than FS does.

Only instance where I can see this not being the case is on fights where you're a Boomkin or Resto (so don't have the 15% baseline) and the range have to bunch up so you can't WC to people.

Nobody except for ferals has the 15% just because cat does, because the rest of them usually aren't in cat form and will have to shift first, which takes time.
BTW, cat form speed and boot enchant stack, so you'd still want both.

You're also forgetting that it is form-bound. Unless a leap backwards is exactly what you want, a Moonkin will have to spend at least one GCD to shift back that could be used otherwise if you chose FS.
This is less of an issue for ferals and guardians, since you won't be attacking in that moment anyway.

[Azale]

Nobody except for ferals has the 15% just because cat does, because the rest of them usually aren't in cat form and will have to shift first, which takes time.
BTW, cat form speed and boot enchant stack, so you'd still want both.

Shifting is instant so if you really need that 15% NOW it's an option. It does mean you can't fire off instant casts while moving though.

You're also forgetting that it is form-bound. Unless a leap backwards is exactly what you want, a Moonkin will have to spend at least one GCD to shift back that could be used otherwise if you chose FS.
This is less of an issue for ferals and guardians, since you won't be attacking in that moment anyway.

Unless things have changed since I last played I believe coming out of forms doesn't trigger a GCD so in theory a bit clever macroing should allow an instant WC intercept.

[Sylar Hao]

How about:

Displacer Beast: Teleports the Druid up to 20 yards forward and activates Cat Form and for 3 seconds you are stealthed no matter what. Displacer Beast activates Prowl's CD. 1min CD.

So the idea is a semivanish. You jump forward activate Cat Form and turn invisible for 3 seconds. This stealth doesn't break even if you have multiple dots. After the 3 seconds, the stealth expires and you are visible again, since you cannot activate Prowl 'cause it is on CD. So you activate it and you have 3 seconds to decide what to do. Reopen with Pounce (since you are stealthed anyway), try to run away if you need to, or whatever you need / want.

Now it's a button with pros and cons.

[Blizzyb]

I think the conversation has degenerated a bit. Is it possible to list a couple different possibilities where displacer beast is useful? Yes, of course. Any spell in the game is situationally useful. The point is opportunity cost: WC is going to have more uses and more situations to help you than DB is. Being able to use it at a 4:1 ratio is the biggest deal here, as DB, in its current state, doesn't provide much more utility than the blink as anyone halfway decent at pvp will have a dot/FF on you.

Unfortunately, I think the 15 sec cooldown on WC is too powerful and will probably be nurfed, making DB a slightly more viable option. I'll say the cooldown for WC is 30 secs before the expansion launches.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 10:55 AM ----------

How about:

Displacer Beast: Teleports the Druid up to 20 yards forward and activates Cat Form and for 3 seconds you are stealthed no matter what. Displacer Beast activates Prowl's CD. 1min CD.

So the idea is a semivanish. You jump forward activate Cat Form and turn invisible for 3 seconds. This stealth doesn't break even if you have multiple dots. After the 3 seconds, the stealth expires and you are visible again, since you cannot activate Prowl 'cause it is on CD. So you activate it and you have 3 seconds to decide what to do. Reopen with Pounce (since you are stealthed anyway), try to run away if you need to, or whatever you need / want.

Now it's a button with pros and cons.

This plus a WC nurf would make the choice a lot more difficult.

[gestapo]

Agreed. One of the things I always loved about being a Druid was their swiftness of movement and mobility. One of the reason I haven't played in Cata is because my Feral wouldn't of felt like a Feral to me without disentanglement - I've played since day one vanilla with that ability! I also think the Cat model looks pretty silly only running at 115% speed, it looks like it's moving in slowmo, the model was design to run quickly!

If it's FS or Disentanglement then I'd go with Disentanglement so I'm glad we got it back, but still .

Giving FS an active Brust of Speed style mechanic would work well imo, use X energy for a speed boost for a few seconds. It'd help Feral's close gaps so they'd be less reliant on WC. Non-Ferals could spam it for a longer movement boost since they don't have to worry about not having enough energy when they get to the target.

Yep, would def need to move faster so cat form looks right as well .

What are they going to replace Feline Swiftness with though? Right now it would have to be pretty freaking awesome in order to defeat Wild Charge, which I'm sure 90% of Druids will be taking.

That is the problem. From a pvp perspective I will pick Wild Charge every time and not even consider the other two talents - that's how essential charge is to feral pvp. But the new additions to charge (ally & travel form) are also excellent. Even with Azale's idea of splitting wild charge and feral charge (making FC baseline for feral) I am leaning on WC, but FS suddenly becomes more appealing. However, the point of contention here is that DB still remains useless.

Hmm how about this

Keep the blink, lose the stealth, you get a short sprint after using it and you drop the fungal growth effect from where you activated the skill, where you blinked to and where the sprint ends.

Still a movement item and it keeps the druid flavours with a hint of arcane mage :P

This is interesting. I like, even without the sprint part.

That's why they aren't identical.
Displacer beast -displaces- you forward a good distance.
It's a completely different ability that can be used for restealthing or, barring that (if it fails), you're 20 yards forward anyway.

If you want Vanish, just say that - don't make up asinine reasons for why you don't like what the talent is/does.
Druids, in charge of not wanting to be better than the classes they mimic.

Edit:Also...Vanish better than Displacer Beast for escaping the fray? Please be joking - the very name of the ability says that it puts you out of combat. It teleports you 20 yards forward away from the fighting and attempts to stealth you.

While people are saying that unless DB works like Vanish it is useless (which is true) - does not mean that druids do want vanish. We want the choice to be compelling and currently it isn't. The point of vanish was brought up as a comparison and also because in the first build it actually was a blink+vanish.

I'm pretty sure all the discussion on which is best to take proves that Druids have a dynamic choice for that tier.

Might want to read through the thread again, it's actually quite obvious that the choice is anything but dynamic. Not sure how you missed that.

DB is a non-targeted forward-blink restealth.
In the right hands, a clean reset will turn a match around - especially with how strong Feral openers are.
Playing with a Rogue, I would take DB over FC. Getting away from combat quickly then travel forming behind a pillow to get a clean restealth will be strong utility that FC cannot provide.

Of course a reset will turn the match around. The thing you're having trouble comprehending is that in any pvp situation a class you're facing will have a dot on you. A hard reset is not possible. WC offers so much utility and so many possibilities that it is miles ahead of the other two talents. If i was being selfish i would actually want this to go live as is because WC is so good I don't want to feel bad about the other options i did not take.

Realistically, I see Azale's idea being implemented as much as I dislike it. That will however, make the tier a more compelling choice - note: i'd still skip DB in that situation and get FS.

[Xeonxi]

That's why they aren't identical.
Displacer beast -displaces- you forward a good distance.
It's a completely different ability that can be used for restealthing or, barring that (if it fails), you're 20 yards forward anyway.

If you want Vanish, just say that - don't make up asinine reasons for why you don't like what the talent is/does.
Druids, in charge of not wanting to be better than the classes they mimic.

Edit:Also...Vanish better than Displacer Beast for escaping the fray? Please be joking - the very name of the ability says that it puts you out of combat. It teleports you 20 yards forward away from the fighting and attempts to stealth you.

You're not helping your case. 20 yards forward without DoT resistance is still weaker than vanish. Sure, with vanish you're still in the scene, but there's no 100% positive way to guess where the rogue will be after the 3 seconds of immunity are gone.

P.S. Nobody's hiding the fact that ferals want vanish. It's not a hidden request, they've been wanting it for a while now.

[ghostnet]

Yes, well, druids have quite a wide array of stuff they can do, while rogues have a wide array of stuff they CAN'T do. I think it's only fair that if druids get everything, they should get dumbed down versions of those spells, and not the full-fledged ones. What point would there be to play other classes then.?

Well, keep in mind displacer beast is still a talent, so a druid will have to waste a tier on it just to get something rogues already have. I personally see no use for this in PVE whatsoever, which is kind of silly imo.