Do you agree that after the ("block") cap you get some stamina gems?

[Deleted]

I had heard the idea that since mastery is the best stat one gems mastery always, and then even if it's more than needed for the cap, it's just reforged back to to next best stat, dodge or parry, whichever is lowest, from the items that have mastery on them which can be reforged.

However, it is now also understood that if DS gear and encounters need also HP, then one should only go to the block cap and then immediately use some stamina gems on blue spots.

[Deleted]

CTC cap > Stamina stacking yes.

reforging for dodge or parry will yield a lower result due to DR and it\s completely RNG so you wont reliably raise the buffer for how long you can survive without heals as you would with stamina stacking

[Deleted]

So it remains to 'ulduar' levels. Interesting. *as soon as CTC is preserved.

I had got the impression from very excited posts that 'stamina is no longer OP!'. It apparently is, after conditions, nowadays.

[Deleted]

Well it hasnt really been viable to go for stamina until DS gear levels because of the harsh requirements to maintain CTC cap if you did it before that.

[Deleted]

Well it hasnt really been viable to go for stamina until DS gear levels because of the harsh requirements to maintain CTC cap if you did it before that.

That explains the excessive advice online about mastery and very little talk about stamina after caps.

[MerinPally]

That explains the excessive advice online about mastery and very little talk about stamina after caps.

Pretty much. Stamina was devalued enough for cata that it was no longer the "STACK THIS STAT ONLY" like it was in WOTLK as was ArP for other classes. Instead it changed to "Get CTC then stam stack" but due to gear, whilst sure you could hit CTC in T11 in full BiS gear (just about) you had to sacrifice a lot of hp. In firelands, any mediocre geared raiding tank would be CTC and starting to get some stamina but most of that would still be in Stamina/Master(or parry) gems rather than straight stamina.

In DS numbers are now high enough that in good gear you will be CTC even before placing any gems if you're really well geared so start putting in some stamina ones as that is the next best stat in terms of keeping us alive ^^

A fair few people ditch Windwalk at this point and go for Landslide. With the debuff now you may as well do this, especially if you're going for hit/expertise cap which once very well geared is worth doing. However, by the time that using Landslide is probably a good idea, you won't need to ask questions, you'll just know

[Eon Drache]

Pretty much. Stamina was devalued enough for cata that it was no longer the "STACK THIS STAT ONLY" like it was in WOTLK as was ArP for other classes. Instead it changed to "Get CTC then stam stack" but due to gear, whilst sure you could hit CTC in T11 in full BiS gear (just about) you had to sacrifice a lot of hp. In firelands, any mediocre geared raiding tank would be CTC and starting to get some stamina but most of that would still be in Stamina/Master(or parry) gems rather than straight stamina.

In DS numbers are now high enough that in good gear you will be CTC even before placing any gems if you're really well geared so start putting in some stamina ones as that is the next best stat in terms of keeping us alive ^^

A fair few people ditch Windwalk at this point and go for Landslide. With the debuff now you may as well do this, especially if you're going for hit/expertise cap which once very well geared is worth doing. However, by the time that using Landslide is probably a good idea, you won't need to ask questions, you'll just know

This. I'm in the full BiS gear and have hit cap, soft expertise cap, and CTC cap at 250k health raid buffed. Impale still hurts me... Not so much our druid, but he has 50k health more than me.

[Deleted]

This. I'm in the full BiS gear and have hit cap, soft expertise cap, and CTC cap at 250k health raid buffed. Impale still hurts me... Not so much our druid, but he has 50k health more than me.

I am also BiS gear, and almost BiS ret. Please bliz give more content.

I have gone a mix of stamina and avoidance after the cap. Yeah avoidance is RNG based but i i feel its good RNG, since you have a chance to avoid a blow. As such i have one stam trinket and the dodge trinket from heroic spine but mainly stam gems plus a few stam/dodge ones.

The question you need to ask is do you actually need any more health and do your healers have any mana issues. With the 25% buff, i would be surprised if the answer was yes unless your really lowly geared.

I keep toying with going hit/expertise capping, but with dragonsoul heoric on farm, i can't be bothered with the cost of regemming/reforging.

[Eon Drache]

I am also BiS gear, and almost BiS ret. Please bliz give more content.

I have gone a mix of stamina and avoidance after the cap. Yeah avoidance is RNG based but i i feel its good RNG, since you have a chance to avoid a blow. As such i have one stam trinket and the dodge trinket from heroic spine but mainly stam gems plus a few stam/dodge ones.

The question you need to ask is do you actually need any more health and do your healers have any mana issues. With the 25% buff, i would be surprised if the answer was yes unless your really lowly geared.

I keep toying with going hit/expertise capping, but with dragonsoul heoric on farm, i can't be bothered with the cost of regemming/reforging.

I def think getting more health for heroic Madness is worth it. Impale even with 25% nerf rips me a good amount, and only the corruption + Adds on the last phase can be dodge/parried/blocked. Having an extra stam trinket, or even the Firelands rep one helps for Madness.

Also, my ret set sucks Still using firelands and raid finder stuff cause gear for ret doesn't drop.

[Mokal]

This. I'm in the full BiS gear and have hit cap, soft expertise cap, and CTC cap at 250k health raid buffed. Impale still hurts me... Not so much our druid, but he has 50k health more than me.

sorry but you need spine shoulders for ultimate "BiS" gear..

Rest of the people reading this topic as tank don't go for hit/expertise caps even soft. since your dps does not matter at this point of the expansion, just get ctc cap and after that high stamina.

[Bryce]

I've actually started using a mix of heroic prot and heroic ret pieces on my pally. With the 25% nerf I'm like, meh, our healers can keep me up so just try to get more damage out and end the fights faster lol.

One attempt on H Madness I was pushing out 55k dps, above our fire mage lol.

[Eon Drache]

sorry but you need spine shoulders for ultimate "BiS" gear..

Rest of the people reading this topic as tank don't go for hit/expertise caps even soft. since your dps does not matter at this point of the expansion, just get ctc cap and after that high stamina.

Sorry, but after a certain point, there is no reason to go after stamina anymore. The only thing that ever takes my health low is Heroic Madness, and you can just use the Firelands trinket in place of Resolve of Undying and you'll be perfectly fine.

Also, where do you see those shoulders in ANYONES list as BiS? Everything lists the Morchok shoulders as BiS. And I agree.

@Galook, you needs a new mage lol

[Jinivus]

Sorry, but after a certain point, there is no reason to go after stamina anymore. The only thing that ever takes my health low is Heroic Madness, and you can just use the Firelands trinket in place of Resolve of Undying and you'll be perfectly fine.

Also, where do you see those shoulders in ANYONES list as BiS? Everything lists the Morchok shoulders as BiS. And I agree.

See all those mastery hybrid gems you're having to use, you'd have to use less with Spine shoulders, you'd also have more base stam to begin with.
But then again, you see differently to me with Exp/Hit also so I'm sure you'll flat out deny it. All good

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 11:20 AM ----------

To clarify, it's for the same reason halfus shoulders were T11 BiS

[MerinPally]

All nice but highly irrelevent because by the time you have those gear levels, so does everyone else in your raid so you can choose to go for hit/exp and do some nice damage or you can continue with stam and be immortal. Irrelevent as to which as it will make buggar all difference because you won't die anyway. I also see stamina as better than hit/exp but I'd toy with it occasionally for fun but not seriously pursue it.

The question was "Is stamina the best after CTC" and the answer - YES.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but after a certain point, there is no reason to go after stamina anymore. The only thing that ever takes my health low is Heroic Madness, and you can just use the Firelands trinket in place of Resolve of Undying and you'll be perfectly fine.

Also, where do you see those shoulders in ANYONES list as BiS? Everything lists the Morchok shoulders as BiS. And I agree.

@Galook, you needs a new mage lol

the reason to go for more stamina is that you want to increase your survivability for the next content. so yes while there's no more content this expansion and as such there wont be anything harder that you need to gear for it doesnt change the bis setup.

In regards to shoulders, I use them - they allow me to get more stamina (and a little bit armor).

[Eon Drache]

See all those mastery hybrid gems you're having to use, you'd have to use less with Spine shoulders, you'd also have more base stam to begin with.
But then again, you see differently to me with Exp/Hit also so I'm sure you'll flat out deny it. All good

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 11:20 AM ----------

To clarify, it's for the same reason halfus shoulders were T11 BiS

I don't have to use them. I realize the mastery from the heroic Spine shoulders is nice. I could easily reforge 1 item and be able to gem straight stamina. Also, I'm only using mastery/stam in yellow sockets, where I'd be using straight mastery, or parry/mastery in red, where I'd otherwise use parry/stam. I simply don't need any more stamina. However, the spine shoulders have 36 extra stam, ~100 more str, 1 more socket, and 257 Mastery versus 408 dodge (163 Mastery + 245 Dodge) and 186 parry.

I'd gain 36 stam, and 94 mastery (+the parry/stam/mastery gem) in exchange for 245 dodge and 186 parry.

Also, ass is in "assume" for a reason.

[damntree]

Sorry, but after a certain point, there is no reason to go after stamina anymore. The only thing that ever takes my health low is Heroic Madness, and you can just use the Firelands trinket in place of Resolve of Undying and you'll be perfectly fine.

If you're a paladin why are you using Resolve of Undying?

[Asur]

If you're a paladin why are you using Resolve of Undying?

For the Stam I suppose, thought I'd pass unless my trinkets were crap.

[Deleted]

For the Stam I suppose, thought I'd pass unless my trinkets were crap.

Its a dodge stacking trinket.

I would like to know why any paladin would use it aswell, unless of course they're replacing their JP trinket or darkmoon card.

[Deleted]

To shed a bit of personal light on this discussion from my own experiences,
I've cleared DS heroic 25man as a main tank in my guild.

For Heroic progression of the first 7 Bosses, Being CTC capped made a big difference for me
and my healers, it softens the blows and sure it has its usefulness for those 7 (maybe not somuch hagara)
in a progression state, its defiantly worth having for at least everything up to and including spine, but once the CTC cap is achieved
there's no point not going for stamina, there is no point where stamina is useless.
Dragon soul gear is pretty well itemized, Were seeing rings, shields, nice tier items aswell as offset items
all possessing mastery as a stat, and being a great multiplier makes CTC cap even more achievable in higher gear.


Personally, At the moment im completely tricked out in Stamina gems, completely ignoring Socket Bonuses Apart from keeping my Meta Active,
Aswell as using Both Soulshifter Vortex, and Indomitable Pride.

I switched my gems up the moment we killed spine, because my healers are dependable and know to keep an extra eye on me not being CTC capped.
The Stamina gemming in turn made Madness progression Such a breeze for us, because i never had an issue with impale, never used FL trinket either.

To avoid Rabbling my TL;DR on this is:

*Gear not Optimal? Aim for CTC cap. as you upgrade your gear slowly progress your 50 mastery gems to>25mastery-37stam > 75 stamina in blue sockets> 75 stamina everywhere if you want.

*Gear is Optimal? Just stack stamina, if you trust your healers, you dont NEED the ctc cap, the content is so nerfed now boss hits are just hilarious, but as a clause, even with me stacking stamina, if i simply swop my Soulshifter vortex with the Valor Points trinket, would you look at that, im CTC capped.

*I agree with mukuli here, as a stamina stacker, i can take the heroic spine shoulders and still achieve the CTC cap by using the VP trinket if i see that i need it.
spine Shoulders are higher Ilevel, have mastery which is a better multiplier than dodge, or parry altho from what i remember you still loose a bit of mitigation
but gain stamina.

*oh! and as a final, who doesn't love dat vengeance?