Your Opinion is INVALID! A Quick Guide to Forum Etiquette

[Kalyyn]

Man, there are a lot of people in here hating on you, Callace. Personally, I think this is great. This forum would be a better place if we all demonstrated the civility that you are speaking of. Hell, I myself often forget to remain calm and friendly. But that brings up something that I think would also go well with this list:

Don't be afraid to apologize. Sometimes we can get a bit too heated in an argument, and we say some things we wish we hadn't. It's human instinct to just press forward, trying to claim victory, until you've caused somebody to hate you over what was originally a silly time-wasting thread. But if you can step back for a moment and admit that you shouldn't have called Bakis a hippie/communist asshole (love you <3!), then people are almost always willing to forgive and forget.

Trust me, I've learned this through years of being a massive tool and then regretting it a few minutes later.

Anyway, great post. Rock on, Callace!

[Deleted]

Scientists follow more etiquette and protocol more than any other group of people in the world.

In terms of how they follow procedures and interact within their own same-cause group - Yes.

In terms of how they compete with other groups of Scientists who are aiming to make discovery first - HELL NO !


The most significant root Scientific discoveries (electrons, etc) were made in English University's where 2 or more Scientists were furiously rivaling each other to "be the first".


Heck, look at how Einstein faced furious competition when he was making such bold statements. The Scientific World erupted, laughed, debated.

Science by very nature is not polite

[Callace]

Man, there are a lot of people in here hating on you, Callace. Personally, I think this is great. This forum would be a better place if we all demonstrated the civility that you are speaking of. Hell, I myself often forget to remain calm and friendly. But that brings up something that I think would also go well with this list:

Don't be afraid to apologize. Sometimes we can get a bit too heated in an argument, and we say some things we wish we hadn't. It's human instinct to just press forward, trying to claim victory, until you've caused somebody to hate you over what was originally a silly time-wasting thread. But if you can step back for a moment and admit that you shouldn't have called Bakis a hippie/communist asshole (love you <3!), then people are almost always willing to forgive and forget.

Trust me, I've learned this through years of being a massive tool and then regretting it a few minutes later.

Anyway, great post. Rock on, Callace!

Apologies, good suggestion. I'll put that on top of my list of revisions.

[Kasierith]

His views aren't facts.
He holds the opinion that all facts can be derived from being polite.
I can easily counter argument this by saying that some of the best scientific discoveries in human kind have been achieved with people furiously competing with each other to being first to find the answer.
They certainly were not polite with each other.
He holds extreme left wing views, which i am not attacking, i am merely pointing out the flaws.

Perhaps I missed something.. it is quite late... but I don't recall him ever saying that. From what I interpreted, he was presenting a number of guidelines that can be used for enabling a more civilized and polite conversation, which I agree with, and then implying that politeness is the best way to facilitate a conversation, which I do not agree with.

Also, again with this left wing stuff... what exactly are you referring to by "left wing," other than an extremely ambiguous term that has multiple connotations even within the same context.

[Callace]

In terms of how they follow procedures and interact within their own same-cause group - Yes.

In terms of how they compete with other groups of Scientists who are aiming to make discovery first - HELL NO !


The most significant root Scientific discoveries (electrons, etc) were made in English University's where 2 or more Scientists were furiously rivaling each other to "be the first".


Heck, look at how Einstein faced furious competition when he was making such bold statements. The Scientific World erupted, laughed, debated.

Science by very nature is not polite

Scientists are almost always extremely polite to each other in public forums. You might be confusing politeness with competition.

Scenes of scientists yelling at each other in public forums are famous because they are extremely rare.

[Deleted]

Scientists are almost always extremely polite to each other in public forums. You might be confusing politeness with competition.

And you might be too easily dismissive of the fact that one of the biggest incentives of truth discovery is to prove the mocking haters wrong

[Callace]

And you might be too easily dismissive of the fact that one of the biggest incentives of truth discovery is to prove the mocking haters wrong

I'm pretty sure most scientists don't think in terms like "mocking haters". I'm just going to have to disagree with your casual opinion for tonight.

[Kasierith]

And you might be too easily dismissive of the fact that one of the biggest incentives of truth discovery is to prove the mocking haters wrong

But you can still do so politely. As is presented in one of my favorite quotes, actually.... "Courtesy is a silver lining around the dark clouds of civilization; it is the best part of refinement and in many ways, an art of heroic beauty in the vast gallery of man's cruelty and baseness." You can still be polite even when you're in direct opposition to another person, and it will in most cases get you further. Galileo would not have been persecuted by the Church if he hadn't been completely arrogant and aggressive in confronting Church views. They were actually fine with the science behind it, they just didn't like how he presented it.

[Deleted]

But you can still do so politely.

You cant be a "polite mocking hater".

Sorry ^^

[Kasierith]

You cant be a "polite mocking hater".

Sorry ^^

Not all people who opposed science did it by being a "mocking hater..." they did it by presenting the evidence that they had given their limited scope of knowledge and used that to oppose change to the sciences. Also, just because your opposition stoops low does not mean that you have to

[reckoner04]

You cant be a "polite mocking hater".

Sorry ^^

This post doesn't make any sense at all.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure most scientists don't think in terms like "mocking haters". I'm just going to have to disagree with your casual opinion for tonight.

Ridiculed crystal work wins Nobel for Israeli -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7941EP20111006


Ridiculed scientist saved millions of children from brain damage -
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...-brain-damage/


The Wright Brothers were historically laughed at -
http://www.east-buc.k12.ia.us/99_00/100/js.htm


There are plenty more examples where people mocked and laughed at Scientists claiming "wild, extravagant theories".

This unquestionably gave Science incentive to prove the mocking haters wrong, just as i said

[Kalyyn]

And you might be too easily dismissive of the fact that one of the biggest incentives of truth discovery is to prove the mocking haters wrong

It totally is, too.

[Deleted]

This post doesn't make any sense at all.

He made a post that said you can be a mocking hater, but a polite one. Which you obviously cant.

You are correct, he didnt make any sense.

[reckoner04]

He made a post that said you can be a mocking hater, but a polite one. Which you obviously cant.

You are correct, he didnt make any sense.

He didn't do that.

[vetinari]

But you can still do so politely. As is presented in one of my favorite quotes, actually.... "Courtesy is a silver lining around the dark clouds of civilization; it is the best part of refinement and in many ways, an art of heroic beauty in the vast gallery of man's cruelty and baseness." You can still be polite even when you're in direct opposition to another person, and it will in most cases get you further. Galileo would not have been persecuted by the Church if he hadn't been completely arrogant and aggressive in confronting Church views. They were actually fine with the science behind it, they just didn't like how he presented it.

Where is the fun in politeness?

"Observe, sir, how the rotation of this curved blade provides sufficient motive force for the air moving over these curved surfaces to generate sufficient lift to allow the powered flight of a heavier-than-air flight"

vs

"WATCH THIS MOTHERFUCKER, I AM FLYING! CHILDREN BORN IN A HUNDRED YEARS WILL LEARN MY NAME AND YOU WILL BE FORGOTTEN"

[Mindark]

In terms of how they follow procedures and interact within their own same-cause group - Yes.

In terms of how they compete with other groups of Scientists who are aiming to make discovery first - HELL NO !


The most significant root Scientific discoveries (electrons, etc) were made in English University's where 2 or more Scientists were furiously rivaling each other to "be the first".


Heck, look at how Einstein faced furious competition when he was making such bold statements. The Scientific World erupted, laughed, debated.

Science by very nature is not polite

Einstein faced furious competition, sure. Him and Heisenberg were constantly trying to prove themselves right and the other's theory wrong. But they did it in a polite manner, they didn't start yelling at each other.

"OMG GOD DOESN'T PLAY DICE! TAKE UR ELECTRON GUN AND SHOOT YOURSELF!"
"SHUT UP EINSTEIN UR STUPID GO DIAF!"

Tesla and Edison, Hawking vs Susskind (though Hawking trolling would be hilarious), and more have all disagreed without throwing feces at one another.

[LurkerOnly]

And yet we have a set code of forum rules to abide by. Posting here is a privilege, not a right. I haven't made any rules. I'm just putting forth guidelines for people that want to be friendlier.

---------- Post added 2012-06-23 at 08:11 AM ----------


It's up to the owner, actually. I linked the rules. I haven't dictated anything. I've posted some friendly guidelines for people to consider on their own.

These aren't rules. It's my personal manual for etiquette.

I'm going to have to go ahead, as much as it pains me, and point out that you've ignored your own guidelines from the opening post of this thread, in the thread which I quoted.

You've invalidated his opinion with an assertion which you are unwilling to hear argument.

That's not agreeing to disagree, that's patronizing someone by "politely" telling them that you "agree to disagree" with them, while actually telling them to be quiet and threatening them by referencing the rules.

You've contradicted yourself and undermined all the work you did to make the original post in which you called for polite behavior.

Additionally, as soon as science was brought up, the point was made. Progress and learning happen through constructive and deliberate mixing of opinions in order to discover their validity in order to come closer to truth. They didn't accomplish it by being polite or considerate, but by agreeing to share ideas in a polite way. Do you believe that the community of scientists in the world ignore a true idea, and dismiss it as "just an opinion", just because the person who did the research was a jerk about it?

As soon as a scientist says to another, "you know, that's cool, but I just don't agree" then those two scientists are no longer working towards truth, they're just making "polite" but hostile small-talk.

It's offensive to a person who seeks facts and truth, and uses discussions to find those facts and truths, to insist that "all opinions are valid, and you shouldn't ever disagree with them, because opinions can't be wrong, and you're just being a jerk."

We might as well just filter every post to say "That's nice, but I don't agree" or "I agree, good show"

In fact, isn't that kind of "me too!" and "nuh-uh!" posting against the rules to begin with?

Anyways....shrug

[Deleted]

Einstein faced furious competition, sure. Him and Heisenberg were constantly trying to prove themselves right and the other's theory wrong. But they did it in a polite manner, they didn't start yelling at each other.

"OMG GOD DOESN'T PLAY DICE! TAKE UR ELECTRON GUN AND SHOOT YOURSELF!"
"SHUT UP EINSTEIN UR STUPID GO DIAF!"

Tesla and Edison, Hawking vs Susskind (though Hawking trolling would be hilarious), and more have all disagreed without throwing feces at one another.

People dont throw feces at one another on these forums either.

Nor have i seen anyone here type in the manner that you purport.


In fact what i commonly DO see, is people who have opinions and try to state them as facts, normally getting very frustrated in the process while they are good willingly proven wrong.

It is the drive to prove the mocking haters wrong that leads to the truth.


"Take the inspiration away to prove the nay-sayers wrong, and you have lost the drive to find the cutting edge truth."


And im sorry, but this all comes down to left wing think tanks not really catering to human nature.


Without hate, good does not prevail triumphantly. Its dis-illusional to propose the nature of the human race works any differently.

---------- Post added 2012-06-23 at 10:54 AM ----------

I'm going to have to go ahead, as much as it pains me, and point out that you've ignored your own guidelines from the opening post of this thread, in the thread which I quoted.

You've invalidated his opinion with an assertion which you are unwilling to hear argument.

I've already told him that.

As with all Left-Wing think tanks like the OP, they conveniently do not address the matter when you point out the obvious flaw.

[LurkerOnly]

People dont throw feces at one another on these forums either.

Nor have i seen anyone here type in the manner that you purport.


In fact what i commonly DO see, is people who have opinions and try to state them as facts, normally getting very frustrated in the process while they are good willingly proven wrong.

It is the drive to prove the mocking haters wrong that leads to the truth.


"Take the inspiration away to prove the nay-sayers wrong, and you have lost the drive to find the cutting edge truth."


And im sorry, but this all comes down to left wing think tanks not really catering to human nature.


Without hate, good does not prevail triumphantly. Its dis-illusional to propose the nature of the human race works any differently.

---------- Post added 2012-06-23 at 10:54 AM ----------



I've already told him that.

As with all Left-Wing think tanks like the OP, they conveniently do not address the matter when you point out the obvious flaw.

I hate to do this because you're agreeing with me, but you're spouting opinions all over the place here. I'm not sure that I can in good faith blame "left wing think-tanks" (which can apparently consist of just one person) for the culture of "nobody disagree with anybody".

I think that to do so ignores all the complexities of the situation and is incredibly narrow-minded.