Is meta a must?

[asmodei]

there are 2 viable alternatives to meta - duo top (with suport/zoner) and duo mid lane (with good cc combo)

there are 3 disadvantages: 1) gold sharing (if partner is supporter it is not problem), 2) exp sharing (no problem if your zoning potential is big), u lost potential red and blue buffs (again can be treated and taken by duo)

advantages are numerous: 1) with proper combo u will zone out allmost all top/mid laners, 2) u can faster go to hlp mid resp bot lane, 3) duo lane becomes ungankable because 2v2 skirmish cannot be considered as gank (bot gank is allmost always 2v3 scenario), 4) there is big probability that jungler will have to babysitt top/mid and will not be able to gank bot frequently, 5) earlier towerpushing = earlier roaming

I played for instance premade games mid lux + panth mid vs annie = total ownage or poppy + lux top vs shen = total ownage or riven + blitz vs morde = total ownage

[Deleted]

Don't forget that the meta is meta for a reason.

The current meta was developed in order to maximize gold gain and to make the people who needs gold the most get it the fastest.

With jungler and support, you pretty much have 5 lanes where one person farms it all. Gold wins games as much as destroying the nexus does.

[wariofan1]

Dreamhack's massive livestream last year combined with the easier jungling patch are the reasons for it. Or, it has always been in Ranked, which I think is good, but I absolutely despise the fact that it made it into Normal games, I HATE it. I had to make a new account to start in the low levels to avoid the meta, and I can already see signs of it again at level 7, it's just not fun to follow such a stupid ''rule''.

[Deleted]

Cant get those guys who always state: we need support/jungler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 but refuse to do it themselves, in my oppinion its perfect viable to go without jungler put heavy poke champs top lane (nidalee/malphite) and the top lane is fucked because has go back or gets zoned heavily, jungler is most useful when getting superior numbers on one lane, in that case its only 2v2 with a heavy damaged other team member. You can also act a bit like bottom, just one guy gets the last hits in minions other is on poke/zoning duty that prevents from pushing too much and getting the solo lane even more exp starved. Cant stand this set in stone meta game, i would like the pro teams to try some creative gameplay instead of alawys the same heros in the same playstyle which is what makes LoL less entertaining in E-sports then starcraft2.

[Hateful]

Cant get those guys who always state: we need support/jungler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 but refuse to do it themselves, in my oppinion its perfect viable to go without jungler put heavy poke champs top lane (nidalee/malphite) and the top lane is fucked because has go back or gets zoned heavily, jungler is most useful when getting superior numbers on one lane, in that case its only 2v2 with a heavy damaged other team member. You can also act a bit like bottom, just one guy gets the last hits in minions other is on poke/zoning duty that prevents from pushing too much and getting the solo lane even more exp starved. Cant stand this set in stone meta game, i would like the pro teams to try some creative gameplay instead of alawys the same heros in the same playstyle which is what makes LoL less entertaining in E-sports then starcraft2.

The problem with having a double top lane is that, inevitably, people are stupid and will push the lane to tower. This pretty much defeats the entire purpose of 2v1ing the lane, so you're unable to poke while they level up, wait for jungler gank and then proceed to own you.

Of course, if you find 2 people that have a clue and don't push the lane, then it works perfectly, from personal experience 90% of people will just mindlessly attack the minion wave as they think "it's 2v1, we're unstoppable!". Here comes that jungler...

That's the problem with a 2v1 top, is that you are essentially going up against a person who is 2 levels higher than you, and, if they're any good, will simply avoid your pokes, wait until they level up (or a jungler ganks) and then win the lane. Happens all the time.

[Axethor]

The problem with having a double top lane is that, inevitably, people are stupid and will push the lane to tower. This pretty much defeats the entire purpose of 2v1ing the lane, so you're unable to poke while they level up, wait for jungler gank and then proceed to own you.

Of course, if you find 2 people that have a clue and don't push the lane, then it works perfectly, from personal experience 90% of people will just mindlessly attack the minion wave as they think "it's 2v1, we're unstoppable!". Here comes that jungler...

That's the problem with a 2v1 top, is that you are essentially going up against a person who is 2 levels higher than you, and, if they're any good, will simply avoid your pokes, wait until they level up (or a jungler ganks) and then win the lane. Happens all the time.

When that happens the solo top has to have a clue too. I can't tell you how many try to push back because they are missing CS, instead of realizing it'll be easier to farm under their turret and they will still be ahead in levels. I have a friend that did that. He wouldn't listen to me, died a few times, then gave up.

[Deleted]

Like Axethor said earlier, Meta is only important in high elo (1700+ or smth)

Like just now we had a team consisting of On-hit fizz roamer, AD Carry Urgot mid, Tryndamere and Janna bot and AD Sion top, and the enemy had the Meta, what happened?

Fizz stomped every lane and the team with the crazy team comp won simply because they were caught off guard, with high elo teams this won't happen since they will know what to do when that sort of stuff happens, but not at low elo.

TLDR; Doesn't matter at low elo/normal games, go for the crazy stuff as long as its not 5 supports

PS: I was the Fizz roamer

[Exroyal]

Yes, i've been aiming at normal games. I am willing to play support everytime in ranked if needed as i know meta is good in high elo games, but when i play normal, i dont want some random 12 y/o screeming at me "YOU HAVE TO BE A RANGED AD CARRY, MELEE WONT WORK!!!!1111" and then i proceed to do fairly well in that lane and that person wont say one single word until you forget to call ss or call it to late, then that person will be all like "report x player for troll" and "omfg call ss you noob."

Sorry, but i cant stand those people, so annoying. Now another question, how should i respond to people who freak out when you do not follow meta?

[Deleted]

Sorry, but i cant stand those people, so annoying. Now another question, how should i respond to people who freak out when you do not follow meta?

Just tell them to fuck off to them and don't care, LoL is a retard-magnet, with the most stupid and retarded people I've ever seen. And hell, you might think that the retarded people are teenagers only, but I've seen live in an internet cafe when some fat 30 year old guy played alone LoL and had negative stats and was yelling "noob team" and stuff to his team. It was fucking hilarious.

[Axethor]

Yes, i've been aiming at normal games. I am willing to play support everytime in ranked if needed as i know meta is good in high elo games, but when i play normal, i dont want some random 12 y/o screeming at me "YOU HAVE TO BE A RANGED AD CARRY, MELEE WONT WORK!!!!1111" and then i proceed to do fairly well in that lane and that person wont say one single word until you forget to call ss or call it to late, then that person will be all like "report x player for troll" and "omfg call ss you noob."

Sorry, but i cant stand those people, so annoying. Now another question, how should i respond to people who freak out when you do not follow meta?

You see, that is the one point I get mad at, if we are missing an AP or AD carry, AD Carry more since that is most of your late game power. Unless they surrender at 20, I usually lose games without a ranged AD.

[akts]

Meta is ... how I put it... Meta is a mainstream of LoL. It is a somewhat dominant setup for a ultra-high elo games. For anybody else? No it is not. However it is a merit of people's expectations of a game in any ELO 2200<X<1300. To elaborate: as OP stated ppl tend to call someone wrecking their meta expectations an idiot.

Let's suppose you are picking 5th, and don't want to support. Personally I kinda despise the "I don't support" crowd for several good reasons, but that's not the point, suppose you are picking a "kill lane" champ. Your biggest problem (and, tbh the only real one) is that your partners are not ready for it. And why should they be? AD+support is a common setup, but a kill lane? Not so much. While it is not nice of them to rage and afk you have to expect such reaction. But picking non-meta champs is no way a bannable offense, so you are free to play the game the way you want. (Unless you rage or feed.) And don't pick Eve, sadly she's the only champion that was nerfed to oblivion on purpose. She is officially useless. /sadeveface.

In conclusion: META is not super important. Still, people are generally narrowminded and tend to rage when something goes not as expected (read: against the holy meta grail). The choice is yours.

[thoukaia]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh and/or elitist in this post.

If you hate the meta (by meta i will refer to the unofficial rule of picking ap mid, bruiser top etc) and pick whatever you want then you're the 2nd worst kind of summoner after the intentional feeder. When you registered to LoL you agreed to obey the Summoner's Code and that includes an article saying that you will do your best for your team to win. By not picking the appropriate role even though you own a champion that can fulfill it, you're effectively hindering your team from winning and deserve to be thrown at the lowest depths of ELO hell. Heck, it should be a bannable offense, but then Riot would be left with 1/10 of their customers. LoL has been designed to be played optimally with a team of a support, a jungler and 3 carries, in the same manner as WoW instances were designed to be ran with a tank, a healer and 3 DPS, and if you try to play as a different role than what you queued with you'll be votekicked.

"But, i play for fun, and carries are fun". No, going double carry bot lane or 2v1 top is not fun for anyone but the enemy team who will stomp you like the nooblord you are. You will have more fun by winning after playing a champion you dont like, than losing after playing a champion you like. And guess what, playing a role you dont like is the fastest way to learn how to counter that role. For example if you dont play jungle because of your "i hate the meta" mentality then chances are you're getting camped 24/7 when you're laning because you dont ward; if you start playing jungle you'll realise the strength and weaknesses of junglers and will be able to cope with them easier when you're laning.

"I obeyed the meta for a few games and lost them so now i just pick what i want". That's because you are bad at the game. The meta is proven to be the optimally way to play LoL all the way from relatively low skill levels to the highest ones. There's a narrow margin between 0 and 600 ELO in which you might be better off going AP Taric mid, Blitz solotop and trilane bot. If you're in the aforementioned level of play then you probably have larger issues than the meta, such as not being able to breathe from your nose, and should focus on those first.

Now that i've explained on my stance on non-metaists, allow me to make it clear that i dont condone people yelling at champion select because someone didnt obey the meta. 90% of the time, it's someone who actually doesnt own the champion the team needed, or doesnt have proper runes, or is just not confident in his skills on that role. Whichever the case, i play to win, and flaming in all caps a teammate is a certain way to lose the game. Instead, i adjust my play to account for the unorthodox pick, for example if we dont have a support then i buy my own wards etc. Then near the end of the game, regardless of outcome but depending on whether the offender was a douche or a nice guy, i either report him or politely tell him that we would have done better if he had picked another role.

If you were offended by my post you can go Monsoon a Soraka, if you know what i mean...

[This name sucks]

Back in my day there was no meta and there was attack speed chogath and ad alistar and nobody cared. People went where they wanted and there was no such thing as jungling.

But, follow the damn meta, its the meta for a reason, because it works.

If you didn't follow the tanky melee meta when it was current you lost the game, flat out lost the game.

The only way to fight sunfire garen sunfire xin sunfire amumu olaf and tryndamere was to play your own super tanky sunfire team.

Now is similar to less of an extreme.

tldr: its there for a reason, use it.

[Exroyal]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh and/or elitist in this post.

If you hate the meta (by meta i will refer to the unofficial rule of picking ap mid, bruiser top etc) and pick whatever you want then you're the 2nd worst kind of summoner after the intentional feeder. When you registered to LoL you agreed to obey the Summoner's Code and that includes an article saying that you will do your best for your team to win. By not picking the appropriate role even though you own a champion that can fulfill it, you're effectively hindering your team from winning and deserve to be thrown at the lowest depths of ELO hell. Heck, it should be a bannable offense, but then Riot would be left with 1/10 of their customers. LoL has been designed to be played optimally with a team of a support, a jungler and 3 carries, in the same manner as WoW instances were designed to be ran with a tank, a healer and 3 DPS, and if you try to play as a different role than what you queued with you'll be votekicked.

"But, i play for fun, and carries are fun". No, going double carry bot lane or 2v1 top is not fun for anyone but the enemy team who will stomp you like the nooblord you are. You will have more fun by winning after playing a champion you dont like, than losing after playing a champion you like. And guess what, playing a role you dont like is the fastest way to learn how to counter that role. For example if you dont play jungle because of your "i hate the meta" mentality then chances are you're getting camped 24/7 when you're laning because you dont ward; if you start playing jungle you'll realise the strength and weaknesses of junglers and will be able to cope with them easier when you're laning.

"I obeyed the meta for a few games and lost them so now i just pick what i want". That's because you are bad at the game. The meta is proven to be the optimally way to play LoL all the way from relatively low skill levels to the highest ones. There's a narrow margin between 0 and 600 ELO in which you might be better off going AP Taric mid, Blitz solotop and trilane bot. If you're in the aforementioned level of play then you probably have larger issues than the meta, such as not being able to breathe from your nose, and should focus on those first.

Now that i've explained on my stance on non-metaists, allow me to make it clear that i dont condone people yelling at champion select because someone didnt obey the meta. 90% of the time, it's someone who actually doesnt own the champion the team needed, or doesnt have proper runes, or is just not confident in his skills on that role. Whichever the case, i play to win, and flaming in all caps a teammate is a certain way to lose the game. Instead, i adjust my play to account for the unorthodox pick, for example if we dont have a support then i buy my own wards etc. Then near the end of the game, regardless of outcome but depending on whether the offender was a douche or a nice guy, i either report him or politely tell him that we would have done better if he had picked another role.

If you were offended by my post you can go Monsoon a Soraka, if you know what i mean...

Dont see anything offending as you seem to be an elitist who wants to win all the time and thats perfectly fine by me. I agree with most of your points, but like i personally dont think that meta is a must in NORMAL games. I may be seen as the noob here, but when i personally know that i will do better as x champ in x place with my team, compared to everything else, then i'd like to not follow meta and pick something else.

If me and my friend go Jarvan and Xin bot, we know we will get hard fed and we will aim for early win as their bot lane wont be useful unless mid and top get super fed, but i have to put up with people calling me all sorts of stuff before the game has started and one mistake makes them cry "report" to your face.

---------- Post added 2012-07-01 at 02:32 PM ----------

Back in my day there was no meta and there was attack speed chogath and ad alistar and nobody cared. People went where they wanted and there was no such thing as jungling.

But, follow the damn meta, its the meta for a reason, because it works.

If you didn't follow the tanky melee meta when it was current you lost the game, flat out lost the game.

The only way to fight sunfire garen sunfire xin sunfire amumu olaf and tryndamere was to play your own super tanky sunfire team.

Now is similar to less of an extreme.

tldr: its there for a reason, use it.

I played at that time as well, fun times.

[Deleted]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh and/or elitist in this post.


If you were offended by my post you can go Monsoon a Soraka, if you know what i mean...

Um we got a badass over here, LoL is serious buisness if your not entitled to win or worse are failing from time to time, you should kill yourself, plz the world is better place without such noobs who dont fullfill the summoner code which should be put over the constitution.

And of course, if all team instant picks in best cases no jungler and support, ITS YOUR FUCKING DUTY TO PLAY JUNGLE SUPPORT!!!!!! Because you fucking mess up, everyone can pick what they like, not you, you pick whats missing in the team. I can imagine you calling mid first and tell otherpeople to roll support everytime, deal with it bitches!

Must be hard to be that guy clenching his fists all the time, what if you got ganked at bot also you had wards, damn learn the fucking game or better stop hindering your team and drop out of LoL because no mistakes are allowed thats why in the tournaments all games end in ties, because nobody every makes mistakes or gets caught out of position. Nothing is set in stone and the time someone creative finds a way to surpass the metagame everybody will do it and all you guys suddenly say: "Wohwohwoh never said meta is the only key to winning" but for now all the pro teams are sissys and too afraid it might not work out, thats why tournaments are boring. Same heros , same gameplay same results.

Please tell me more of your success in rolling support jana in lowest elo with only warding and stuff, if you dont succed you said its your own fault because you fail at this game, try it one time and then drop out of this game pls.

You expect me to have all the runes available and the best for every champ, but i tell you what i dont want buy fucking runepages for real money.

And dont be afraid, you dont just sound a bit harsh , youve gone absolut douchebag mode when calling people at lowest elo retards, dont say wanting to win is bad, but I guess you are a very unpleasant player. And obey the summoner code, you only would be allowed to only pick the op champs because everything less is not the best way to win, must be hard to have such a little champion selection.

[Exroyal]

Um we got a badass over here, LoL is serious buisness if your not entitled to win or worse are failing from time to time, you should kill yourself, plz the world is better place without such noobs who dont fullfill the summoner code which should be put over the constitution.

And of course, if all team instant picks in best cases no jungler and support, ITS YOUR FUCKING DUTY TO PLAY JUNGLE SUPPORT!!!!!! Because you fucking mess up, everyone can pick what they like, not you, you pick whats missing in the team. I can imagine you calling mid first and tell otherpeople to roll support everytime, deal with it bitches!

Must be hard to be that guy clenching his fists all the time, what if you got ganked at bot also you had wards, damn learn the fucking game or better stop hindering your team and drop out of LoL because no mistakes are allowed thats why in the tournaments all games end in ties, because nobody every makes mistakes or gets caught out of position. Nothing is set in stone and the time someone creative finds a way to surpass the metagame everybody will do it and all you guys suddenly say: "Wohwohwoh never said meta is the only key to winning" but for now all the pro teams are sissy and to afraid it might not work out, thats why tournaments are boring. Same heros , same gameplay same results.

Please tell me more of your success in rolling support jana in lowest elo with only warding and stuff, if you dont succeded you said its your own fault because you fail at this game, try it one time and then drop out of this game pls

You bring up a very good point which i should have written in my post. Why is that i have to follow meta when douchebags instalock their roles before 10 seconds have passed? I'm left with one choice and if i dont follow that choice im the biggest noob on earth who deserves to be banned and i should delete the game. This is the most annoying part of this meta in normal games which i dont like.

[thoukaia]

Um we got a badass over here, LoL is serious buisness if your not entitled to win or worse are failing from time to time, you should kill yourself, plz the world is better place without such noobs who dont fullfill the summoner code which should be put over the constitution.

And of course, if all team instant picks in best cases no jungler and support, ITS YOUR FUCKING DUTY TO PLAY JUNGLE SUPPORT!!!!!! Because you fucking mess up, everyone can pick what they like, not you, you pick whats missing in the team. I can imagine you calling mid first and tell otherpeople to roll support everytime, deal with it bitches!

Must be hard to be that guy clenching his fists all the time, what if you got ganked at bot also you had wards, damn learn the fucking game or better stop hindering your team and drop out of LoL because no mistakes are allowed thats why in the tournaments all games end in ties, because nobody every makes mistakes or gets caught out of position. Nothing is set in stone and the time someone creative finds a way to surpass the metagame everybody will do it and all you guys suddenly say: "Wohwohwoh never said meta is the only key to winning" but for now all the pro teams are sissys and too afraid it might not work out, thats why tournaments are boring. Same heros , same gameplay same results.

Please tell me more of your success in rolling support jana in lowest elo with only warding and stuff, if you dont succed you said its your own fault because you fail at this game, try it one time and then drop out of this game pls.

You expect me to have all the runes available and the best for every champ, but i tell you what i dont want buy fucking runepages for real money.

And dont be afraid, you dont just sound a bit harsh , youve gone absolut douchebag mode when calling people at lowest elo retards, dont say wanting to win is bad, but I guess you are a very unpleasant player. And obey the summoner code, you only would be allowed to only pick the op champs because everything less is not the best way to win, must be hard to have such a little champion selection.

I'm not gonna pretend i understood your post since half of it is failed attempts at sarcasm and the other half is you accusing me of things i never said or meant. But i'll reply to the bolded part. I indeed started at low ELO like everyone else (if you consider 1200 to be low) and worked my way up exactly because i was playing good support. And it was totally worth it because now i'm sitting comfortably at 1700 elo and can pick usually what i want, whereas with that attitude of yours you're probably stuck at triple digits arguing who gets mid and not having a jungler half the time. If that's your definition of fun then by all means stick to it.

[wariofan1]

You see, that is the one point I get mad at, if we are missing an AP or AD carry, AD Carry more since that is most of your late game power. Unless they surrender at 20, I usually lose games without a ranged AD.

I've seen Pantheon make up for the ranged AD carry a lot, mostly because I'm premade with one going Alistar/Panth bot. There's a few champs who can make up for the loss of an ranged AD carry, Panth is one of them, aslong as he gets fed, which is a necessity for any ranged AD carry anyways.

[NotValidAnymore]

The point is that someone like Pantheon is not gonna make up for the pure damage output that AD carries have, unless you build him in some weird AD carry-ish way, but that's just ruining his potentional.

The meta exists because it's the most efficient way to play in terms of gold and experience, but obviously you're still going to lose if the opponent is better than you, regardless of following the meta or not.

[asmodei]

If you hate the meta (by meta i will refer to the unofficial rule of picking ap mid, bruiser top etc) and pick whatever you want then you're the 2nd worst kind of summoner after the intentional feeder. When you registered to LoL you agreed to obey the Summoner's Code and that includes an article saying that you will do your best for your team to win. By not picking the appropriate role even though you own a champion that can fulfill it, you're effectively hindering your team from winning and deserve to be thrown at the lowest depths of ELO hell. Heck, it should be a bannable offense, but then Riot would be left with 1/10 of their customers. LoL has been designed to be played optimally with a team of a support, a jungler and 3 carries, in the same manner as WoW instances were designed to be ran with a tank, a healer and 3 DPS, and if you try to play as a different role than what you queued with you'll be votekicked.

thats a nonsense

there is one and only one "optimal" setup - winning setup, and winning setup is revealed AFTER one team is defeated, no sooner