The Mass Effect 3 "New" Ending Thread

[Grizzly Willy]

The Mother of all Thresher Maws is still exceedingly bigger than a mere Reaper Destroyer. Remember that the Destroyers are about 160 meters from top to bottom. The Capital-Reapers are over 2 kilometers in size.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 09:01 PM ----------



Thanix missiles. Extremely potent.

And extremely expensive and rare too, so don't go saying they could just have equipped every ship in the fleet with them. Some obviously have them, but remember that all the council races pretty much denied the very notion of the Reapers until Batarian space got wiped clean. By the time the Reapers do arrive, there's nothing the combined fleets of the galaxy can do to stop them.

I'll concede on the first point, but I still question the strength of two missiles and a bunch of explosives to thousands of shells impacting the same location several times. Ah well, I'll just defer to you.

[Kakokun]

Why? It's boring and leaves you with nothing other than look at shepard on the beach with mordin. It doesn't leave you to think about a damn thing, the idea is for you NOT TO BE COMFORTABLE. The idea is to make you think and yea upset you.

Dark endings aren't very exciting either. It's not deep just depressing.

[Beavis]

Every other game Bioware has released before has had a perfect ending, the point is that choices matter. If you made the optimal choices, you should have been able to achieve that perfect ending. Complete disappointment to me and many others.

People are always clamoring for games to be treated a mature medium where mature stories can be told. Yet, when we get one, people complain that there's no perfect happy ending.

[Rukh]

I'll concede on the first point, but I still question the strength of two missiles and a bunch of explosives to thousands of shells impacting the same location several times. Ah well, I'll just defer to you.

In the case of the thanix missiles, its important that they hit inside the destroyer, not its plated surface. That's what made them potent. If you just shot them at it and hit it in the armor, it probably wouldn't have done anything.

[Grizzly Willy]

People are always clamoring for games to be treated a mature medium where mature stories can be told. Yet, when we get one, people complain that there's no perfect happy ending.

Which is the big problem here. We want video games to be taken seriously, to be seen as art. If we are to achieve that we have to treat the game creators as artists, and an artist's job is not to please his or her fanbase, it's to create something that they feel is something that other people should see and react to. When we start demanding that they alter their works just because we don't like it is when we start removing the artistic integrity that we want this medium to have.

[Adam Jensen]

People are always clamoring for games to be treated a mature medium where mature stories can be told. Yet, when we get one, people complain that there's no perfect happy ending.

And personally, I felt Green was the happy ending. Maybe not perfectly happy, Shepard does die but the galaxy does enter a golden age. Green is not available (unless the EC changed it) with low EMS.

[Beavis]

Dark endings aren't very exciting either. It's not deep just depressing.

I disagree. Take Mordin. From the moment we meet him, he's fraught with guilt over his role in the Genophage program. That's why he's on Omega running a free clinic in the ghetto. Through Mass Effect 2, we see him trying to rationalize and come to terms with what he's done. Ultimately, he can't. When we meet him in Mass Effect 3, he's working towards a solution and with it, his redemption. On Tuchanka, he is given the choice between absolution and life wracked with guilt. He chooses absolution, not the player. It's entirely in line with his character. He died free.

A while back, somebody wrote that the reason Mass Effect 3 bothers people is because it tells a deeply uncomfortable truth: people we love leave us, often for reasons we disagree with or don't understand.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 07:47 PM ----------

And personally, I felt Green was the happy ending. Maybe not perfectly happy, Shepard does die but the galaxy does enter a golden age. Green is not available (unless the EC changed it) with low EMS.

I actually think they're all happy, after a fashion. Even Destroy. The sacrifice of the Geth and EDI frees the galaxy from a billion years of terror.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 07:49 PM ----------

Which is the big problem here. We want video games to be taken seriously, to be seen as art. If we are to achieve that we have to treat the game creators as artists, and an artist's job is not to please his or her fanbase, it's to create something that they feel is something that other people should see and react to. When we start demanding that they alter their works just because we don't like it is when we start removing the artistic integrity that we want this medium to have.

Yeah, it's an interesting challenge. We're all kind of conditioned to think that if you check off all the right boxes in games, things will work out. But, how often does that happen in reality? If art imitates life and games are to be art, then sometimes games must give us unsatisfactory endings.

[Kakokun]

I disagree. Take Mordin. From the moment we meet him, he's fraught with guilt over his role in the Genophage program. That's why he's on Omega running a free clinic in the ghetto. Through Mass Effect 2, we see him trying to rationalize and come to terms with what he's done. Ultimately, he can't. When we meet him in Mass Effect 3, he's working towards a solution and with it, his redemption. On Tuchanka, he is given the choice between absolution and life wracked with guilt. He chooses absolution, not the player. It's entirely in line with his character. He died free.

A while back, somebody wrote that the reason Mass Effect 3 bothers people is because it tells a deeply uncomfortable truth: people we love leave us, often for reasons we disagree with or don't understand.

Mordin's story doesn't have a dark ending though (unless you screw him over I guess). Bittersweet maybe. Ultimately it is a good ending if you go the redemption route.

The reason people disliked the original endings is because they were dark endings and/or didn't really show the impact of what you've been working towards over 3 games, just implied things. They even implied that you royally screwed over the galaxy.


I think that people are satisfied with the new endings because they show that what you've been doing actually had a positive effect.


The original endings were dark and just went against everything the games were trying to convey. The new ones are happy or bittersweet depending on how you look at it and somewhat keeps the tone going. However a perfect ending would be better at conveying the original meaning.

[Beavis]

Mordin's story doesn't have a dark ending though (unless you screw him over I guess). Bittersweet maybe. Ultimately it is a good ending if you go the redemption route.

The reason people disliked the original endings is because they were dark endings and/or didn't really show the impact of what you've been working towards over 3 games, just implied things. They even implied that you royally screwed over the galaxy.


I think that people are satisfied with the new endings because they show that what you've been doing actually had a positive effect.


The original endings were dark and just went against everything the games were trying to convey. The new ones are happy or bittersweet depending on how you look at it and somewhat keeps the tone going. However a perfect ending would be better at conveying the original meaning.

I guess I don't understand what people want from a "perfect" ending then. Kaiden or Ashley is dead, Mordin is dead, Thane is dead, Anderson is dead, a bunch of the crew of the original Normandy is dead, an unspecified number of people were killed in a Cerberus medical experiment camp, Thessia, Earth, and Palavan are all in ruins, and untold billions have been killed by the Reapers. What's the perfect scenario that isn't a complete tonal break?

[Kakokun]

I guess I don't understand what people want from a "perfect" ending then. Kaiden or Ashley is dead, Mordin is dead, Thane is dead, Anderson is dead, a bunch of the crew of the original Normandy is dead, an unspecified number of people were killed in a Cerberus medical experiment camp, Thessia, Earth, and Palavan are all in ruins, and untold billions have been killed by the Reapers. What's the perfect scenario that isn't a complete tonal break?

A perfect ending would be us defeating the reapers without being forced into one of 3 (+1) grey scenarios.

[Grizzly Willy]

I guess I don't understand what people want from a "perfect" ending then. Kaiden or Ashley is dead, Mordin is dead, Thane is dead, Anderson is dead, a bunch of the crew of the original Normandy is dead, an unspecified number of people were killed in a Cerberus medical experiment camp, Thessia, Earth, and Palavan are all in ruins, and untold billions have been killed by the Reapers. What's the perfect scenario that isn't a complete tonal break?

I think it's safe to say "Well, this shit isn't going to end well" the instant you see that reaper land in the beginning of the game. As soon as you know that the Reapers on are Earth, you know that the Earth that rises out of it isn't going to be the same as it was going in. Expecting a happy ending after a conventional war and victory against the Reapers isn't a reasonable proposition.

I mean, I have to imagine that even if you were able to win a war with the combined strength of the entire galaxy against the Reapers, the resulting galactic society would be a mess.

[WarpedAcorn]

I don't see ME3's endings as "Dark" or "Mature". I just saw them as rushed jobs littered with plotholes that deviated from the theme of the series.

The game I played immediately after ME3 was Arkham City. That had a dark ending.

The game I played before ME3 was Bastion. That had a mature bittersweet ending.

Its actually been awhile since I've played a game with a pure happy ending. It would have been nice to have it as an option. Dragon Age: Origins was probably the best in the ending department. It took into account all of your choices and you had mega happy endings and bittersweet endings. And it also let you know how your actions affected the kindgom. I think that's what players were looking for.

[wildcardNS]

I don't know why everyone is talking about pure or perfect endings. Anybody that wanted that got what they deserved: disappointment. I want a quality story to finish the one I've been playing since ME1. I want it to make sense at least. If we lose, so be it, but I don't want fucking starchild to be the one that says "oh by the way you lose." Even as "unperfect" endings, the endings suck.

I don't want sunshine and bunnies.

I want better-written "meh" endings.

To hell with starchild.

[Florena]

The new endings are 'better' than the old ones, however my problem with the original endings was not fixed with the new one: I simply cannot get myself to buy into the idea that a 'synthetic rebellion' is part of some cosmic cycle that inevitably happens with every reaper cycle. It feels incredibly contrived. They should have stuck with the original dark energy ending. It was much better.

As for the indoctrination theory, it was obvious to me looking at the original content that it was NOT what bioware intended, it was just people not satisfied with the original ending trying to find a way for it to make more sense. The extended cut blows the indoctrinated theory out of the water, and people who still cling to it are just plugging their ears and going "LALALALALA I can't hear YOU!" and ignoring the facts of the matter. I don't like the ending either, but that theory holds 0 water, especially now.

[nekobaka]

For me it was definately more fulfilling than the original. I actually felt an emotional impact by seeing all the races and characters instead of what felt like such a far to distant view and the feeling of wtf just happend to everyone. Some of the scenes from the original did end up not matching up so well and the story still could have been written which is not something that gets changed so much with an "extended ending." Overall though this is what I feel like we should at the least have orgiginally gotten and that the developers that was in charge of the ending basically rushed it out.

[Nerraw]

A perfect ending would be us defeating the reapers without being forced into one of 3 (+1) grey scenarios.

Where's the fun in black and white? Grey is where it gets interesting. It's where you're forced to think, to decide for yourself. Is this right or wrong? What am I supposed to do with this?

I think a lot of people share feelings with Garrus: "Grey? I don't know what to do with grey." And here we finally have a game that forces you to focus on that area. It's refreshing. Too many people are stuck in black and white.

[wildcardNS]

As for the indoctrination theory, it was obvious to me looking at the original content that it was NOT what bioware intended, it was just people not satisfied with the original ending trying to find a way for it to make more sense. The extended cut blows the indoctrinated theory out of the water, and people who still cling to it are just plugging their ears and going "LALALALALA I can't hear YOU!" and ignoring the facts of the matter. I don't like the ending either, but that theory holds 0 water, especially now.

Every believer knows this. The thing is, the endings are so bad we don't care. We will believe in the face of all contrary evidence.

[Kakokun]

Where's the fun in black and white? Grey is where it gets interesting. It's where you're forced to think, to decide for yourself. Is this right or wrong? What am I supposed to do with this?

I think a lot of people share feelings with Garrus: "Grey? I don't know what to do with grey." And here we finally have a game that forces you to focus on that area. It's refreshing. Too many people are stuck in black and white.

I don't mind grey in itself. But the reason you're forced into the grey choices just baffles me. Grey for the sake of being grey isn't interesting.

Edit: Though I guess that makes it realistic in a sense. Doesn't matter how much you work towards your happy ending because someone will screw you over with their flawed logic so you may as well accept it.

[Faerillis]

I chose to tell the Glowchild to fuck off; that none of his options were acceptable, and that we'd rendered his solution impossible. I then got flipped off with Liara pulling a Leia, rather than any sort of cinematic.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 09:10 PM ----------

I don't mind grey in itself. But the reason you're forced into the grey choices just baffles me. Grey for the sake of being grey isn't interesting.

Edit: Though I guess that makes it realistic in a sense. Doesn't matter how much you work towards your happy ending because someone will screw you over with their flawed logic so you may as well accept it.

But there's almost nothing that can be considered black and white in morality — morality is so incredibly subjective that it can only be grey. I didn't mind that there were no happy endings; bleak is fine by me, illogical and out-of-left-field endings really fucking piss me off.

[Xeones]

If this ending had been the one the game had shipped with I would have thought "Wow this sucks" but I wouldn't have been in rage mode like I was.

As it is the DLC doesn't really "explain" much, it doesn't eliminate the nonsense like the Normandy crashing for no reason and now the new feature is to have multiple reapers come down and the Normandy get through them, leaving the fight, and spend an hour picking up TWO people while Harbinger kindly just sits there and watches. Personally I would have been happy if they simply just gave us a DA:O style epilogue instead of them wasting so much time to not really do a whole lot.

I'm not angry anymore, it was "better" but I still maintain that feeling of being done dirty. I'm going to be skeptical of anything Bioware does in the future sadly.