So what has the alliance done thats so bad blizzard?

[Zavala_451]

The problem lies on only having two factions. Split the factions into three. Then you have something a lot better

[Dreknar20]

The funny thing is that what you said is wrong. One of the major Horde factions in Pandaria are against Garrosh.


Anyway, let's not confuse savage with evil/bloodthirsty. Just look at our own world primitive tribes. Anthropology should be teached to young kids so the world can better understand those that are different from them.

The Night Elves are as savage as the orcs, lorewise, although Knaak pussified them...[
.

Exactly as this man has said.
The races of the Horde are definatly more savage and harsher than (most) of the Alliance races, but they are not bloodthirsty monsters.
The Worgen was probably Blizz's attempt to give the Alliance a "savage" race, but thats a lil iffy, because Worgen is not really a seperate race, they are essentially still humans that just have differant powers

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 04:35 PM ----------

Thank you, finally I see someone that also understand that is not about Horde nor Alliance, but the simple fact that Garrosh is perfect for the antagonist role.

eh, to a sense it does.
I mean the theme of Pandaria is not simply about war but about how people should fight that war.
So Blizzard has these two war-leaders Varian and Garrosh, and for them to show that theme one would needs to fall and the other needs to rise.
It would be retarded story if they both fell or both rose.
It just saddens me that Garrosh was chosen as the character that should fall, as he was my fav in Cata

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 04:39 PM ----------

It's not a small part. It's the Tauren (Jaina even consider Baine as the best peace solution) and the Trolls. The Blood Elves are pretty neutral and isolated, going wherever Sylvanas goes, the Goblins being there for the cash. The Horde is far from united, all that unites them is the need to be united. Not for love of Garrosh, but for survival of their nations and old hatreds.

That's why the Sunwalkers in Pandaria are the "butterfly" on the Chaos theory about to happen on the Horde.

Well in Cataclysm, the majority of the Horde support Garrosh and thr fighting of the war.
Even groups of Tauren and trolls supported Garrosh, because essentially, he really hasent done anything "evil" in Cata, just waging war against the Alliance, which most of the Horde had considered enemies for years already.
But he still has alienated portions of the Horde

Its when we hit MoP, when its revealed the corruption in Garrosh (by whatever source) and he starts doing shit that makes more and more of the Horde switch "camps"
We already start seeing this in the Horde intro to Pandaria where he is shown to be a lil unstable

[mysticx]

The issue is Pwny, that Taurajo showed the Alliance isn't allowed to make "grey" or "aggressive" actions, or it spends the entire expansion pack being used to justify every single one of the Horde's actions who are just trying to live in a world with the evil, baby eating, skin wearing, Alliance monsters.

This really, it's making me wish Taurajo actually was a matter of "Charge in and kill them all!" instead of "Let them run out! Whoops! they tried to hug quillboars!", if we get the backlash for it, might as well not wimp out about it...

There's just nothing badass left about the alliance (For instance: Night elves in Warcraft 3 kicked ass and defended what was theirs, what are they doing now?), they wait around for the horde to do stuff and do things halfbaked when they do something (Like Stonard), pretty big writing fail IMO, Alliance passed the point of "honorable" and strayed into "Wimp"-territory...

[Deleted]

Well in Cataclysm, the majority of the Horde support Garrosh and thr fighting of the war.
Even groups of Tauren and trolls supported Garrosh, because essentially, he really hasent done anything "evil" in Cata, just waging war against the Alliance, which most of the Horde had considered enemies for years already.
But he still has alienated portions of the Horde

Because there is no other way. Tauren and Trolls supported the Horde, not Garrosh, because they believe on the Horde. The Horde was their salvation, their rise to power, their word on Azeroth.

Vol'jin doesn't like Garrosh, Baine doesn't like Garrosh, the problem was Cataclysm changed the world and if they stood divided, they would risk become footnotes of Azeroth's history.

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 07:22 PM ----------

This really, it's making me wish Taurajo actually was a matter of "Charge in and kill them all!" instead of "Let them run out! Whoops! they tried to hug quillboars!", if we get the backlash for it, might as well not wimp out about it...

There's just nothing badass left about the alliance (For instance: Night elves in Warcraft 3 kicked ass and defended what was theirs, what are they doing now?), they wait around for the horde to do stuff and do things halfbaked when they do something (Like Stonard), pretty big writing fail IMO, Alliance passed the point of "honorable" and strayed into "Wimp"-territory...

And somehow, the Horde is attacked because of it. Heck, I see even more badassery from the Argent Crusade.

That's what Blizz is trying to duel with MoP, tone up the Alliance and tone down the Horde. And the Pandaren will help it.

[Karthorn]

Well in Cataclysm, the majority of the Horde support Garrosh and thr fighting of the war.
Even groups of Tauren and trolls supported Garrosh, because essentially, he really hasent done anything "evil" in Cata, just waging war against the Alliance, which most of the Horde had considered enemies for years already.
But he still has alienated portions of the Horde

Its when we hit MoP, when its revealed the corruption in Garrosh (by whatever source) and he starts doing shit that makes more and more of the Horde switch "camps"
We already start seeing this in the Horde intro to Pandaria where he is shown to be a lil unstable

Tauren and Trolls supported Garrosh? When and where? I didn't see any of them support him, they were forced more than anything.

[Scummer]

That's what Blizz is trying to duel with MoP, tone up the Alliance and tone down the Horde. And the Pandaren will help it.

The problem is so far in MoP is that we are seeing the Horde being the faction of action, whereas the Alliance again seem to be the faction (Despite there being a war going on along with Theramore etc) that's pushed into fighting, rather than landing a first blow.

Now 5.1 (Or whichever patch escalates the war) may in fact bring this too the Alliance, but we can't say for certain. What's tickled me is the "MoP will fix the Alliance" attitude which seems now to be wrong (On a initial release perspective) and that now we've wound up straying into "5.1 will fix it".

It's not enjoyable to have to wait even longer to know you're gonna receive the action we so desire.

[Dreknar20]

Because there is no other way. Tauren and Trolls supported the Horde, not Garrosh, because they believe on the Horde. The Horde was their salvation, their rise to power, their word on Azeroth.

Vol'jin doesn't like Garrosh, Baine doesn't like Garrosh, the problem was Cataclysm changed the world and if they stood divided, they would risk become footnotes of Azeroth's history.[COLOR="red"]
.

Well its quite a generalization to say every-single troll and Tauren does not support Garrosh.
The tensions between Horde and Alliance have been growing for years
Humans and dwarves messing with Horde in Durotar and Barrens will have definatly left many bitter
There are more than a number who are glad to be killing Alliance

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 06:42 PM ----------

Tauren and Trolls supported Garrosh? When and where? I didn't see any of them support him, they were forced more than anything.

ummm where are they forced?
In the Shattering, Cainre was dissapointed to see Tauren and trolls supporting and cheering on Garrosh during their duel

[Alewen]

Nothing. But this has been the problem throughout Cataclysm as well. The horde do a lot of bad things, the alliance do pretty much nothing. The alliance received no real story or personality in cataclysm, there were just the generic paper-cutout good guys dealing with horde aggression. There was no alliance story in Cataclysm just a bunch of parody zones and zones where you didn't even know the horde existed (take Feralas you actually didn't even talk about the horde once in the whole zone, even in Ashenvale less than half the quests really dealt with the horde the rest were cleansing quests, finding corruption and dealing with elements).

I mean the alliance don't even really have to do anything "bad" for the sake of being equal with the horde. Asking for that is the same as alliance players asking for a win to be equal with the horde. The horde want to win by any means necessary, even if it's less than honorable. Personally if it cost the alliance a few good points for them to develop a decent story I'm all for it. I'm just tired of the alliance being so good and just dealing with horde aggression, I want to see them get angry and start to develop a soul. I see it a much larger problem with Blizzard's ability to write actually write a decent alliance story than horde being seen as evil (hey at least they are getting a story). It just hasn't been shades of grey in a long time.

Agreed. The horde, zone to zone, you go against the alliance. Your focus is fighting the alliance. What do we got on alliance side? Minor mention of the horde then going off to heal the land or fight the twilights or whatever. It's like the alliance side doesn't care at all about what the horde is doing to them. It's like "Oh the horde is doing that? meh who cares... what? naga? we must focus all our attention on them!" And to me, that's absolute BS. Alliance got 1 zone that focused on the horde war. Southern Barrens. The other few, just brush the horde off to the side and focus on something else.

The problem lies on only having two factions. Split the factions into three. Then you have something a lot better

Honestly, if they broke the factions up, it'd probably be more than 3 factions. But I doubt that will ever happen. What I'd prefer is that Alliance at least get equal treatment as horde in terms of actual story and focus on the war. Like, let our actions in stonard be set in stone and have us outright destroy it. We are losing a major portal place, so why can't the horde lose theirs?

[Deleted]

The problem is so far in MoP is that we are seeing the Horde being the faction of action, whereas the Alliance again seem to be the faction (Despite there being a war going on along with Theramore etc) that's pushed into fighting, rather than landing a first blow.

Because Garrosh is the antagonist. That's basically it. Not because it's the Horde or the Alliance.

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 07:59 PM ----------

Well its quite a generalization to say every-single troll and Tauren does not support Garrosh.
The tensions between Horde and Alliance have been growing for years
Humans and dwarves messing with Horde in Durotar and Barrens will have definatly left many bitter
There are more than a number who are glad to be killing Alliance

You are mixing up things. They might be supportive of the war for their own reasons, not because they are pro-Garrosh.

As I said before, they do it for the Horde.

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 08:07 PM ----------

Now 5.1 (Or whichever patch escalates the war) may in fact bring this too the Alliance, but we can't say for certain. What's tickled me is the "MoP will fix the Alliance" attitude which seems now to be wrong (On a initial release perspective) and that now we've wound up straying into "5.1 will fix it".

Don't worry, Krasarang Wilds shows us a different perspective already. While the Sunwalkers are there to be way from Garrosh and "his war" and follow the visions of a female Tauren of a mystic place of power, the Sentinels are there just for the power of becoming immortals again.

[Scummer]

Because Garrosh is the antagonist. That's basically it. Not because it's the Horde or the Alliance.

Garrosh being the antagonist should not mean the Alliance are again relegated to the bench, because up until the Org siege his actions are the Horde's actions.

Both factions are essentially antagonists up until the point Garrosh goes completely off the rails, we're both bringing war to Pandaria. The Alliance has just had Theramore obliterated it's only natural that we should see the Alliance going out for vengeance.

[Deleted]

Garrosh being the antagonist should not mean the Alliance are again relegated to the bench, because up until the Org siege his actions are the Horde's actions.

We simply don't know that. I can't honestly believe that they are changing Jaina to a warmonger just to leave her without striking back.

It's just Theramore is basically the "Bang!" that the xpac begins, Garrosh being the antagonist. 5.0 is about Pandaria itself (as it should be, since introduces the continents and all of their denizens).

I like the Jade Forest as what it was. It shown the Alliance with an upper hand on the zone and the Horde literally fighting for survival.

[RyanEX]

Because Garrosh is the antagonist. That's basically it. Not because it's the Horde or the Alliance.

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 07:59 PM ----------



You are mixing up things. They might be supportive of the war for their own reasons, not because they are pro-Garrosh.

As I said before, they do it for the Horde.

---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 08:07 PM ----------



Don't worry, Krasarang Wilds shows us a different perspective already. While the Sunwalkers are there to be way from Garrosh and "his war" and follow the visions of a female Tauren of a mystic place of power, the Sentinels are there just for the power of becoming immortals again.

Tauren and trolls are basically in it because they don't have any better choice at the moment. The Tauren had the option to strike out on their own in the Baine's short, but he managed to talk them out of it for the sake of preserving the Horde his father helped create.

That said, even if they're supporting it reluctantly, it makes them legit targets for Alliance rage and counter attacks. You're not gonna sit back and think "Well we didn't see that many Tauren in the Ashenvale invasion army". No.

You're going to know that the Tauren are still part of the Horde and are still fighting alongside the orcs. You don't just ignore them because they're such nice guys because, push come to shove, they will help defend the Horde.

[Deleted]

Tauren and trolls are basically in it because they don't have any better choice at the moment. The Tauren had the option to strike out on their own in the Baine's short, but he managed to talk them out of it for the sake of preserving the Horde his father helped create.

That said, even if they're supporting it reluctantly, it makes them legit targets for Alliance rage and counter attacks. You're not gonna sit back and think "Well we didn't see that many Tauren in the Ashenvale invasion army". No.

You're going to know that the Tauren are still part of the Horde and are still fighting alongside the orcs. You don't just ignore them because they're such nice guys because, push come to shove, they will help defend the Horde.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. The Tauren (and Trolls) fight for the Horde, not Garrosh.

[Dreknar20]

Don't worry, Krasarang Wilds shows us a different perspective already. While the Sunwalkers are there to be way from Garrosh and "his war" and follow the visions of a female Tauren of a mystic place of power, the Sentinels are there just for the power of becoming immortals again.

ooo is that reason the Night Elves came to Pandaria?
Couldt quest on my Alliance toon in beta yet

[Deleted]

ooo is that reason the Night Elves came to Pandaria?
Couldt quest on my Alliance toon in beta yet

Tyrande had a vision of an old pre-Azshara mystical place that could be the solution for their immortality. Lorekeeper Vaeldrin and his daughter Lyalia, the Sentinel Commander, go there through a portal, leading a group of Sentinels.

[Florena]

ooo is that reason the Night Elves came to Pandaria?
Couldt quest on my Alliance toon in beta yet

Yes and no. The Night Elves are there because Tyrande had the same vision the tauren woman did about a light of some sort, and went to investigate it. While the sentinels there do hope it can be used to restore their immortality, they were sent by Tyrande to investigate the same reason the tauren went: following a vision. I really like the NE storyline there, I'll have to roll a horde premade through to do their story soon.

[mysticx]

Both factions are essentially antagonists up until the point Garrosh goes completely off the rails, we're both bringing war to Pandaria. The Alliance has just had Theramore obliterated it's only natural that we should see the Alliance going out for vengeance.

There have been many more things that warrant some vengeance: Southshore, Silverwind refuge, Garrosh' attempt at conquering all of Ashenvale (In "Wolfheart"-novel, not really shown in-game, probably because the alliance won :P ), that dwarven place in southern barrens, Stonetalon, the attack in Icecrown, Theramore soon enough, the list goes on... And each of them would have the horde foaming a the mouth and calling for open war, see how they are about 3 vendors and half a dozen of guards at Camp Taurajo, but despite all that happened, alliance just shrugs and keeps on doing nothing...

I've said it before and i'll say it again: I'll believe it when i see it. ~_~

[Florena]

This was brought up in another thread: One thing the Alliance does do that some would consider going too far is seeming to wipe out the Shatterspear trolls entirely, down to the last man, in Darkshore, though this was far from unprovoked.

[Deleted]

This was brought up in another thread: One thing the Alliance does do that some would consider going too far is seeming to wipe out the Shatterspear trolls entirely, down to the last man, in Darkshore, though this was far from unprovoked.

...After they were left alone until Cataclysm, then started torturing Sentinel prisoners and basically building a forward position for the Horde to attack Darkshore. I'd hardly call that "too far".

[Darkhallows]

I'd like to frown at the guy who pushed the Darkspear trolls into the typical "evil troll" fantasy archetype. The Darkspear, especially Vol'jin, are anything but that. I'd love so much for the trolls and Tauren to join the Pandaren's neutral race policy. I'd race-change ALL my characters. And my faith in the horde one day being grey again sits with characters like Vol'jin and Sunwalker Dezco.