Boys - Second class citizens?

[Khanjin]

That surprises me as historically boys has always been prefered, to the point where in certain countries it's been common to kill off daughters if you had them. You sure you're not just picking off certain cases and ignore evidence it's not really a trend? Also it might be feminism at play. I'm not really old enough to have had the experience myself, as some of my own friends just started to have kids.

[Deleted]

I'm absolutely saying they should have a choice. But it should be a choice taken very seriously. Career or children, you can't have both without forcing employers to leave your (possibly very important) vacant position vacant until you deign to get off your ass and come back to work.

It seriously is a choice. My mother was an accountant/banker in London. After having me she had to leave her job. Remember that this was the early 90's and the banking industry is wrought with chauvinism. Anyway, getting off your ass? Have you ever been around a sprog?

[Laize]

It seriously is a choice. My mother was an accountant/banker in London. After having me she had to leave her job. Remember that this was the early 90's and the banking industry is wrought with chauvinism. Anyway, getting off your ass? Have you ever been around a sprog?

It was a figure of speech.

The point remains. If you want to raise a kid you have to give up your career or at least accept that it will be much harder to start back up where you left off.

[Stir]

It was a figure of speech.

The point remains. If you want to raise a kid you have to give up your career or at least accept that it will be much harder to start back up where you left off.

I agree. However: This should go for either the mother OR the father. Responsibility like this should not rest on only a single parent who is pre-determined to carry that responsibility by the make-up of their reproductive organs.

[Laize]

I agree. However: This should go for either the mother OR the father. Responsibility like this should not rest on only a single parent who is pre-determined to carry that responsibility by the make-up of their reproductive organs.

It does go for whoever the primary caregiver is. Its usually the woman though.

[Polyman]

My mom always jokingly told me and my younger brother she was glad to never have a girl because there was only enough space for all her clothes and junk and having a second women in the house wouldn't work. My father was the youngest sibling with 3 older sisters so he was glad that we didn't have to suffer through that situation like he did.

In all seriousness, I think the way parents and elders view genders changes as the kids age. This is a bit stereotypical, but at a young age the girls usually want to be the 'princesses' and most people are happy to shower them with whatever they want. Boys around this same age are also looking for attention but some people have the 'Be a man and learn to do things on your own' attitude so they might be more ignored.

In my opinion, that scenario benefits the boys more than the girls in the long run.

[Laize]

My mom always jokingly told me and my younger brother she was glad to never have a girl because there was only enough space for all her clothes and junk and having a second women in the house wouldn't work. My father was the youngest sibling with 3 older sisters so he was glad that we didn't have to suffer through that situation like he did.

In all seriousness, I think the way parents and elders view genders changes as the kids age. This is a bit stereotypical, but at a young age the girls usually want to be the 'princesses' and most people are happy to shower them with whatever they want. Boys around this same age are also looking for attention but some people have the 'Be a man and learn to do things on your own' attitude so they might be more ignored.

In my opinion, that scenario benefits the boys more than the girls in the long run.

Some shrinks theorize that males suffer from varying degrees of PTSD due to the willingness of parents to shower girls with gifts and encouragement of independence in boys from ages as early as 3. It's this they attribute men's dulled emotional responses to many stimuli.

[Daelak]

Some shrinks theorize that males suffer from varying degrees of PTSD due to the willingness of parents to shower girls with gifts and encouragement of independence in boys from ages as early as 3. It's this they attribute men's dulled emotional responses to many stimuli.

Sounds like a plausible scenario. Just imagine the PTSD if we could remember getting circumcised.

[Stir]

Sounds like a plausible scenario. Just imagine the PTSD if we could remember getting circumcised.

And that's why European men are sexier.
A foreskin. :P

[Laize]

Sounds like a plausible scenario. Just imagine the PTSD if we could remember getting circumcised.

I should actually qualify what I said. One study showed parents were more willing to allow boy babies and toddlers to cry it out than girls. Another showed allowing children to cry it out causes emotional distress and shares symptoms with severe emotional trauma.

---------- Post added 2012-07-02 at 04:09 PM ----------

And that's why European men are sexier.
A foreskin. :P

Yes well... It's not like we were given much of a choice in the matter.

[Melodi]

I've found it to be quite the opposite in my situation. I'm currently pregnant with my first child and we found out it was a girl. We're both super excited as we both wanted a little girl (but if it had been a boy we would have been just as happy).

Every time people ask me what I'm having and I answer "a girl" I always get people who say "Oh, boys are SO MUCH EASIER than girls. Well, I guess next time you can try for a boy..." My response to them on that is "Well, we like a challenge since we're having a girl first." They just look at me dumbfounded and I walk away with a smile since they weren't expecting that answer.

We haven't even had our first child yet and people are already going "so when are you going to have the next one?" and "You can't leave her to be an only child!" Like being an only child is some god awful occurrence.

People are just strange/stupid when it comes to babies and weddings I find and like to try to incite drama at every turn. Even if they don't mean anything by it, it can still be quite offensive. People just need to back off of other people's business and let them plan their own families the way they want to. As long as they are happy it shouldn't matter to anyone else if they have all boys, all girls, a mix, only one child, or multiple children.

So no, I don't think boys are second class citizens as the situation happens for whatever gender "lacks" in the family it seems if you have overly zealous family members. I have not had this come up on either side of my family, nor were my parents or aunt/uncle pressured to have a boy after my Dad had twins girls (me and my sister). We ended up with only 3 girls on my dad's side of the family and my grandparents were excited regardless. I don't think my grandpa even cared about "someone passing on the family name." They did all the "boy stuff" with us like fishing and teaching us how to throw even though we were girls and they enjoyed it.

[Symphonic]

And that's why European men are sexier.
A foreskin. :P

How is that sexier? In any case, debating whether or not getting my baby boy circumcised when he's born in 2 months. Leaning against doing it even though I was, my father was, pretty much everyone in the states is. The ONLY reason I would do it is because I don't want him to ever feel that he's weird or anything like that when other kids who might be could see and laugh? I dunno, I just don't know how I feel making a choice like that for someone else.

[brirrspliff]

may i ask which country you live in?

we have a saying here that goes like: "the gender of the baby does not matter as long as the boy is healthy!" ;-)

---------- Post added 2012-07-02 at 05:50 PM ----------

How is that sexier? In any case, debating whether or not getting my baby boy circumcised when he's born in 2 months. Leaning against doing it even though I was, my father was, pretty much everyone in the states is. The ONLY reason I would do it is because I don't want him to ever feel that he's weird or anything like that when other kids who might be could see and laugh? I dunno, I just don't know how I feel making a choice like that for someone else.

don't know what he means with "sexier", but it sure is more fun to fuck with one, because the tip of your phallus will be more sensitive. imagine kissing with callus on your lips...

[Duridi]

How is that sexier? In any case, debating whether or not getting my baby boy circumcised when he's born in 2 months. Leaning against doing it even though I was, my father was, pretty much everyone in the states is. The ONLY reason I would do it is because I don't want him to ever feel that he's weird or anything like that when other kids who might be could see and laugh? I dunno, I just don't know how I feel making a choice like that for someone else.

That's actually normal in the states? Wow, that's surprising. I really had no idea. Here in Norway, that's frowned upon and refered to as child abuse.

[Symphonic]

That's actually normal in the states? Wow, that's surprising. I really had no idea. Here in Norway, that's frowned upon and refered to as child abuse.

Yeah, I think the statistic when I was born was about 85% would be circumsized. The decade before I was born it was in the 90% range. However, from what I understand it's around 50% now. So... I don't know what to do when my son is born.

[Jordaen]

How is that sexier? In any case, debating whether or not getting my baby boy circumcised when he's born in 2 months. Leaning against doing it even though I was, my father was, pretty much everyone in the states is. The ONLY reason I would do it is because I don't want him to ever feel that he's weird or anything like that when other kids who might be could see and laugh? I dunno, I just don't know how I feel making a choice like that for someone else.

I am not pregnant, nor do I have any children, but I will never circumcise my boys. My boyfriend is uncircumcised, and most of his friends/family aren't either (how do I know? well, don't ask). I've seen horror stories about young babies having mental disorders due to the pain that it causes them. And, to be honest, isn't it his choice? If the other boys make fun of him, that's pathetic on their part. I know it will probably happen, and I'll probably tell my son to tell the mean boys that at least he's a whole man and not forced to change for some stupid idea of sexiness. If it gets to be a problem and he really REALLY wants it done, then so be it, but I won't do it when he's young...

Anyway, on topic, as others have said, many other countries are aborting, killing, and abandoning the baby girls. I think the western world is trying to counter balance that with preferring girls. It could also be, like others have also said, that baby girls can be dressed up and made all cute and whatever. Personally? When I'm pregnant if someone tells me "Don't you want a girl?" I'll tell them something along the lines of "I didn't know my children had to be one sex or another in order for me to love them. I don't care what sex it is, as long as it's healthy" and hope that surprises them enough to take a deep look into their own life and realize that it's not all about their ignorant opinions.

[WarpKnight]

I don't think at all that the Western world prefers girls.

Seems fairly equal to me.

As it should be.

[Duridi]

Yeah, I think the statistic when I was born was about 85% would be circumsized. The decade before I was born it was in the 90% range. However, from what I understand it's around 50% now. So... I don't know what to do when my son is born.

Just by looking at the trend should tell you not to do it. It's probably going to disappear over a few more decades, atleast for those without religious background.

It's not even suppose to be removed, so I would let it be. Don't worry about your child being bullied over it(actually, why bully someone over what they have between their legs? That could heavily backfire).

---------- Post added 2012-07-02 at 06:15 PM ----------

may i ask which country you live in?

we have a saying here that goes like: "the gender of the baby does not matter as long as the boy is healthy!" ;-)[COLOR="red"]

I'm norwegian. We have the saying here too, but seems to be irrelevant to certain special cases.

[Deleted]

A friend posted a link on Facebook yesterday, called "10 things you don't say to a mother of boys", with the comment "Having just 1 boy, I already see the tendency" attached. The reason she posted this, is that her family seems disappointed her firstborn was a boy. Her brother also have boys. Two of them, and no girls. They have both been tossed comments like "You're gonna keep trying until you get the girl I hope?", and "Aww, what shame the second one is a boy too. Better luck next time" from their own family.

This is just her family. Most people in my family would prefer a boy. You can't make an observation from your personal situation and then automatically apply it to everyone else.

I am also a mother of a boy, with a second boy on the way. I haven't had that many comments directed at me, but I am well aware that what my friend is experiencing is rather common, and it pretty much always concern boys, unless we're talking about families who have 3-4 girls and no boys. What I have experienced though, is that one person first said "Oh how exciting. Maybe it's a girl this time? Or maybe you don't care that much about gender?" when I mentioned that one of my pregnancy symptoms was opposite of when I had my firstborn boy. Then proceeded later to ask "So, how do you feel about that?" with a little pity in her voice(atleast that's how I took it, but I could just have been a bit defensive due to expecting such a reaction, I don't know) when I told her the ultrasound showed another boy.

It is simple...you already have a boy, so people assume that you would want to balance it out and have a girl next. It's normal, it's a natural assumption to make. If someone had a girl first, it would be assumed that they'd want a boy next.

I have also recently read another forum discussion where a mother of three girls said she felt sorry for those who only had boys, and was gratefull she was so lucky she only had girls(obviously, it could just be a defence mechanism since she only had girls herself and possibly wanted both genders, I don't know), The point though, is that she is also helping with spreading the attitude that you're some kind of failure if all you get are boys.

The person you're talking about just has a preference to girls. The next person might have a preference to boys. I don't see how you can take the opinion of one person and try to apply it to everyone.

To be quite honest, I really hate the idea that it's going to be automaticly assumed, and added to the statistics, that if I decide to have a third child, it will be because my two first ones are both boys. Especially concidering the fact that a possible third child have been under evaluation long before my first one was even born.

Nothing will be assumed by anyone. Your third child will be added to the statistics. But the statistics just show overall trends, which you are a part of. It says nothing specifically about you or your situation.

I really don't understand where this attitude is coming from, and if it's even real.

It's not real, you're imagining it.

To me it just looks like some stupid idea some people have printed into their mind and started spreading to harm people for something they have no control of. I mean, that's possibly the easiest thing you can try harm someone for, simply because they have no control of it.

No one is being harmed by anything? If you want a third baby, have one. Why are you obsessing over something that someone could possibly think? They could also possibly think that youre having another baby because you just want another boy. Someone could possibly think you're having another baby because you love the number 3 and so want that many children. They could possibly think that you want a third child so you can have a better game of monopoloy when they're more grown up. How does any of that affect you?


Even if it is true that the majority of people prefer girls, so what?

[Lymph]

I think it is more people assume that you want both genders like you said when people have several girls they say aww no boy.

I think a lot of people also assume boys are more trouble (getting into trouble) and take more energy to raise. People always tell me 3 boys? Your poor mother.