Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Licmyseal]

So theres a good chance my 25man will down atleast 1 heroic boss tonight, but I doubt a 2nd is on the cards this week due to the limited raid hours we do. So should I coin first boss in the hopes i'll get a weapon? Also currently in 2 set t15 and loving it

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Don't know about others but I'll have 4 coins for the first week of Heroic, i plan to coin every boss. Simply because a weapon can happen, if it's thunderforged aswell you're gonna be set for this tier. From a 2/2 hc sha axe it's 1.5k wep dps increase and 6,5k damage increase. Nothing is going to come close to that in terms of upgrades.

[anaxie]

You can charm parry random bracers on Jin Rhok our dk did. When you get 4 heroic bosses killed prolly better idea not to char jin'rhok.

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 05:47 AM ----------

Don't know about others but I'll have 4 coins for the first week of Heroic, i plan to coin every boss. Simply because a weapon can happen, if it's thunderforged aswell you're gonna be set for this tier. From a 2/2 hc sha axe it's 1.5k wep dps increase and 6,5k damage increase. Nothing is going to come close to that in terms of upgrades.

You forgot to mention the 3% haste boost if you charm frozen hells ontop of the top end.

Really wish I had gotten more conqu, 2set would be nice for Horridon.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Had a dream that I coined heroic thunderforged haste + crit sword off Jin'rokh, how ready for progress am I to dream about it. Fucking sad...

[Deleted]

just afew questions.
1) i currently have relic(2/2) and lfr lei shens final orders(2/2). shall i replace one of these with the vp trinket or shall i look to get the jiun, spark or zandalaar trinket.
2) Am i right in thinking that the weapons are shared loot, meaning that i should charm roll every boss in the hope of getting for example the haste sword.
3) is it worth dropping 4 set t14 normal (not upgraded) for 2set t15 (mixture of normal and lfr)

heres my armoury link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Rudeeo/simple

and thanks in advance.

[Prometheous]

jk thunderforged parry wrists.

Exodus had insane wep luck, sword+polearm from jin'rokh and polearm from horridon

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 09:53 AM ----------




I don't see these numbers being realistic. With everything up atm (~54k strength, pot, engineering gloves, flask, food, wings, guardian, ji-kun trinket and lei shen order (You can add the value of spark into lei shens place if you want), I see 260k hammer of wraths and ~250k templar verdicts. This is in a perfect world scenario and will not happen at all apart from the pull (confirmed in last post) and in a really lucky scenario at the 2nd/3rd (Potentially 4th depending on fight) guardian cooldown.

Now, Hammer of Wrath damage isn't going to explode with 2set bonus or heroic mode gear. The highest I saw hammer of wrath on PTR (with the heroic mode testing scaling) was an odd 360k crit. Templars Verdict, however, was going up towards the 600k numbers with 4set and everything up, this being in Iron Qon, hence no damage modifiers.

While i've obviously no numbers to prove this, coupled with the 5% melee buff from sword of light, I still doubt we'll see that high numbers.

With 54k strength last night, Execution Sentence did a grand total of 700k damage, 10 hits 0 crits.


As far as guardian goes, he actively updates according to your stats, though he'll not explode like suggested. The highest damage I saw last night was a 163k hit (I had higher crits, but 163k hit would be the biggest number if it crit) at the final stack of feathers, after that hit, he went back to delaing ~40k per hit until despawning.



All that being said, i've not taken live weapon scaling into consideration (Currently using a 522) but I doubt that'll have a massive impact from PTR --> Live. Haste values will explode though, sitting at 31.59% unbuffed, missing several haste items and several sockets from throne of thunder. I definetly see mastery being king towards the end of this tier (which coupled with strength will make these numbers very possible in T16).



I'll do some tests tonight after raid on the seal swapping though. Always went under the assumption that each tick updated itself, not that refreshing censure through melee attacks updated the buff. If the latter is true, seal tweaking can be a good increase.

How? My gear is terrible and with DMF, dancing steel, and synapse springs I see TVs upwards of 500k.

[Afarensis]

I thought this was a theorycraft thread, not a random guesswork thread. ES ticks for a million? Where are you getting these numbers?

Let's assume heroic Greatsword of Frozen Hells (535), and, say, 60.000 STR (Just chose a random high number that could vaguely be realistic), and let's set mastery at 35%

Execution Sentence: Total Damage = 12989 base + 593.6% SP

60.000 STR = 60.000 SP

60000*5.936 = 357780

Inq: 357780*1.3 = 465114

Spell damage taken debuff: 465114*1.05 = 488369,7

With AW up that becomes: 488369,7*1.2 = 586043,64


Templar's Verdict: (((AP/14)*Weapon Speed) + Weapon Damage) * 275%) +1727

((((120000/14)*3.6) + 23133,5) * 275%) +1727 =
(((8571,4285714285714285714285714286 * 3.6) + 32133,5) * 275%) +1727 =
((30857,142857142857142857142857143)+32133.5) * 275%) +1727 =
(62990,642857142857142857142857143 * 275%) +1727 =
173224,26785714285714285714285714 + 1727 = 174951,26785714285714285714285714 = 174951

Sword of Light: 174951 * 1.15 = 201193,65
Phys damage taken: 201193,65 * 1.04 = 209241,396
Armor reduction: 209241,963 * 0.68 = 142284,14928 = 142284

Mastery: 142284*0.35 = 49799,4
Inq: 49799,4*1.3 = 64739,22
Spell damage taken debuff: 64739,22 * 1.05 = 67976,181

Total Damage from TV: 67976,181+142284 = 210260,181 = 210260 (420K on a crit)

Add about 4K damage to this for a normal hit if you have 2P T15



Templar's Verdict with 4P T15 (This is where it's going to get crazy!):

The mechanics are entirely the same until we get to the application of passives/buffs/debuffs, so let's start from that point, where we have a value of 174951.

Sword of Light: 174951 * 1.15 = 201193,65
Inq: 201193,65 * 1.3 = 261551,745
Spell damage taken debuff: 261551,745* 1.05 = 274629,33225
2P T15: 274629,33225 * 1.06 = 291107,092185 = 291107
No armor reduction, because it's holy damage.

Now I'm going to assume it still applies the mastery, but I can't confirm this, if anyone has something conclusive on this, please let me know!

Mastery: 291107*0.35 = 101887,45
Inq: 101887,45 * 1.3 = 132453,685
2PT15: 132453,685 * 1.06 = 140400,9061
Spell Damage Taken debuff: 140400,9061 * 1.05 = 147420,951405 = 147421

Total damage from Templar's Verdict: 147421 + 291107 = 438528

or 877056 on a crit.

Looking at these numbers now, it seems a bit OP to me for it to apply mastery, but I'm sure someone will be able to tell me if it does

Hammer of Wrath: (SP * 1.61) + 1747 to 1930 (so let's say 1838,5)

(60000 * 1.61) + 1838.5 = 98435,5

Inq: 98435,5 * 1.3 = 127966,15
Sword of Light: 127966,15 * 1.15 = 147161,0725
Spell Damage Taken debuff: 154519,126125

with AW that becomes: 154519,126125 * 1.2 = 185422,95135 = 185423 (or 370846 on a crit)

with 2PT15: 196548 ( 393096 on a crit)

[Fredzilla]

You can charm parry random bracers on Jin Rhok our dk did. When you get 4 heroic bosses killed prolly better idea not to char jin'rhok.

I also got thunderforged parry bracers from using a rune on jinrokh last week. Pretty frustrating, let me tell ya.

[Afarensis]

Afarensis your numbers are off. You only gain half of your attack power as strength, making the spellpower value 30000.

This is correct, but for these calculations, we have STR set to 60.000, as if all the stars aligned and Ji-Kun, Spark of Zandalar, and GoAK are all perfectly in synch for a short moment of time.

60K STR = 120K AP = 60K SP

[Natureseer]

this is the official word on the trinket hotfix i think, from a blue post:

Summary:
We added a bit of cheating in the player’s favor to avoid long streaks of bad luck. This change is now live.

Longer explanation:
Traditionally, trinkets and similar proc effects in the game had high proc chances with an internal cooldown (ICD). This made the procs random in theory, but really pretty predictable. You would know that a trinket would proc on the pull and then reliably every 45 sec (or whatever the ICD was).

For 5.2, we made a change to trinkets to make them less predictable and less boring with the RPPM system. Sometimes you can get lucky and get several back to back procs. This feels cool. Sometimes you can also be unlucky, and get long streaks when the trinket just refuses to proc. A trinket that is intended to proc every 1 minute could in theory go 8 minutes or more without activating.

Last night we hotfixed in a change for trinkets that use the RPPM system. Every time your trinket fails to proc, it increases the chance it will proc. Unlucky streaks will be more rare and extremely unlucky streaks should never happen. In addition, we increased the chance for these trinkets to proc on the pull. To top it off, we increased the proc rates of the Agility and Strength trinkets in Throne of Thunder by 10% and the Intellect and Spirit trinkets by 5%.

Painfully detailed explanation for theorycrafting:
As usual, you absolutely do not need to know or understand the following in order to use or best take advantage of these procs. This info is just for theorycrafters who want to understand the exact details of the system, so that they can model and simulate it better.

Calculate the proc frequency as normal. Based on that, you can figure out the expected average proc interval. We also now keep track of time since the last successful proc (this is different from the time since last chance to proc), capped at 1000 sec. Multiply the proc chance by MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3). For example, if a proc has an average proc interval of 45 sec, and it’s been 72 sec since your last successful proc, you’ll get a 1.3x multiplier to your proc chance. If you’ve been out of combat for a few min, and it’s been 5 min since your last successful proc, you’ll get a whopping 16.5x multiplier to your proc chance.

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 10%:
• Renataki’s Soul Charm
• Talisman of Bloodlust
• Bad Juju
• Rune of Re-Origination
• Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
• Primordius’ Talisman of Rage
• Spark of Zandalar
• Gaze of the Twins

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 5%:
• Wushoolay’s Final Choice
• Breath of the Hydra
• Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen
• Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance
• Horridon's Last Gasp
• Inscribed Bag of Hydra-Spawn
• Stolen Relic of Zuldazar
• Lightning-Imbued Chalice

Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen now has 65% of the normal proc rate for Balance Druids, up from 50%.

[Placidlol]

Hey guys,

Was hoping to get a little bit of help here. I have a few trinkets and I can't figure out what to use, I'm using simc generated stat weights in combination with Mr. Robot, it's telling me Relic of Xuen and Lei Shen's (N) over Darkmist (N) which sounds odd to me. The other thing it's recommending is dropping Shoulders of Mishapen Life (N) for my LFR tier 14 shoulders, is the 2 piece worth it? Last question, using SW, which is apparently the way to go, the rotation should be HoW > Filler > HoW > Filler right?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...87herry/simple is my armory link

Thanks in advance.

[Revvo]

The 2-piece is a fairly significant upgrade, even if its LFR.
For your trinket problem I would refer you to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-the-Mists-WIP
Relic will be better than DMV if neither are upgraded. It and LSFO line up very well with procs.
As for SW rotation, yes, you generally get HoW every other GCD.

[Placidlol]

The 2-piece is a fairly significant upgrade, even if its LFR.
For your trinket problem I would refer you to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-the-Mists-WIP
Relic will be better than DMV if neither are upgraded. It and LSFO line up very well with procs.
As for SW rotation, yes, you generally get HoW every other GCD.

Thanks for the fast reply! So I should definitely be waiting for hammer to come of CD instead of using another filler?

[anaxie]

Was having a wet dream about ES numbers obvious exaggeration. Numbers are still gonna be huge. And if you can get it it's prolly gonna be the best bet overall.

However I think you failed some numbers 60k str is not exaggerating it's actually low and so is 35% mastery.

Ji-Kun Heroic NON TF <I doubt we have competition on it> with armor perk/ full raid buffs/ guardian is 26006 Strength. Thunderforged that and your gonna be alot higher.

26006+
8200 <H:spark , 3000 pot, 19000? base gear strength, 1650 DS

should be about oh 70596 strength unless i'm wrong?
Then mastery in BiS is gonna be 41% not 35% and HoL is SUPPOSED to double dip from 2 set. Well see how that looks on live. Still I'm making rough predications here. If you are gonna call it into question atleast try to use our BiS stats.

HoWs look to be about 291k non crit counting mastery but not the seal <prolly should?> should have about 30% crit in full BiS + raid buffs. Not terrible for sw wings eh?

Your math suggested this.
196548 ( 393096 on a crit) ~ Afarensis
Sadly those numbers undershoot reality by 100k.

Think i forgot base HoW damage too but it doesn't matter made my point.

Looks like if we hit our 42% haste mark and able to atleast do wings guardin with a Ji-kun up. I think were are gonna be pushing 400k+ dps during that time frame. We should have these gear levels atleast around the time MOST of us start progressing on Heroic Lei Shien. Looks pretty good for our burst.

Starting burst on pull we will certainly be undisputed kings. because of How RPPMS force the proc on pull. we are looking at SW wings hammer a full 70k+ strength rolling + Skull banners + Hero so 72% haste + Guardian is prolly going to be doing upwards of 2.6-3 million damage on the pull assuming he doesn't snapshot for his duration. We gonna have some sick burst. Most of you do about 350k spikes were pretty common on pull in T14. 500k will prolly be the new number. Maybe boomkin burst will still beat us on the pull. Depending on their trinket preference.

Lastly, was considering Lights hammer for Lei Shien heroic. Specifically for lightning balls for 60% of the fight. Pretty good aoe and the healing could help melee alot with the patches. Leaned more towards heroic and I guess depending on Ball HP.

[tawney]

Hello, quick question. Is Ret lfr 502 2pc and 4pc worth getting over the 522 rep items? I'm no expert but I'm thinking 522 makes the lfr tier gear meaningless, is this the case?

[Revvo]

Thanks for the fast reply! So I should definitely be waiting for hammer to come of CD instead of using another filler?

Optimally you won't have to wait more than about .5 seconds for HoW to come off CD. I'm not sure how long it would be with your haste rating, but at higher haste, the wait time becomes almost none, it's pretty seamless.

[anaxie]

Optimally you won't have to wait more than about .5 seconds for HoW to come off CD. I'm not sure how long it would be with your haste rating, but at higher haste, the wait time becomes almost none, it's pretty seamless.

under wings at T14 BIS it is 2.4 seconds. If he can atleast get his hands on full BiS LFR ToT. He should have atleast 35% haste. should be about 2.2 sec HoW

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 09:28 PM ----------

Hello, quick question. Is Ret lfr 502 2pc and 4pc worth getting over the 522 rep items? I'm no expert but I'm thinking 522 makes the lfr tier gear meaningless, is this the case?

Are you asking if 522 ilvl gear is better then having a tier bonus? It's not.

[Revvo]

under wings at T14 BIS it is 2.4 seconds. If he can atleast get his hands on full BiS LFR ToT. He should have atleast 35% haste. should be about 2.2 sec HoW

Exactly. So after the filler, you won't have to wait long, if at all.

[anaxie]

Exactly. So after the filler, you won't have to wait long, if at all.

He won't because wings HoW is usually th e same amount of time as your GCD 1.25 seconds 2.4 hammer

[tawney]

under wings at T14 BIS it is 2.4 seconds. If he can atleast get his hands on full BiS LFR ToT. He should have atleast 35% haste. should be about 2.2 sec HoW

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 09:28 PM ----------



Are you asking if 522 ilvl gear is better then having a tier bonus? It's not.

Well that's kinda what I was asking, if t15 lfr tier bonus was good enough to make up for 20ilevels on the rep gear. Obviously im not refering to the regular t15, but the lfr t15. If that's what you're refering to then that's very surprising.