1. #3561
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Would upgrading or LFR/Flex/N/H effect the recovery rate? I assumed that part would stay the same, and it would only be the strength proc on the trinket that would be effected.
    Well supposedly it is only 17% on the normal, which makes a LOT more sense than 40%. 40% with Unbreakable Spirit and 40% off some of healers biggest cooldowns (see tranq/revival) would be undoubtedly game-breaking.

    H TF upgraded (>IF<) would be like 20% I imagine, still a sizeable chunk and first CDR trinket that's been useful.

    These could be Golden Lotus rewards, who knows and only upgradeable to 18-19 maybe.

  2. #3562
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    how retardedly broken is this cd reducing trinket going to be?
    1,5min cd devo.
    1,5m cd bubble.
    15sec cd divine protection?
    1min cd wings/holy avenger. (Imagine 1min cd holy avenger with 4set on aoe fights, just holy shit)
    if it halves the CD on our ES/LH/Prism then that's going to open up a lot of potential as well.

    I'm guessing with theese trinkets we'll most likely want 3 trinkets next tier, this cd reducing one as mandetory and changing the other around depending on the fight.
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  3. #3563
    Doesn't work on HA. :/

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  4. #3564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    how retardedly broken is this cd reducing trinket going to be?
    1,5min cd devo.
    1,5m cd bubble.
    15sec cd divine protection?
    1min cd wings/holy avenger. (Imagine 1min cd holy avenger with 4set on aoe fights, just holy shit)
    if it halves the CD on our ES/LH/Prism then that's going to open up a lot of potential as well.

    I'm guessing with theese trinkets we'll most likely want 3 trinkets next tier, this cd reducing one as mandetory and changing the other around depending on the fight.
    It's BoP which doesn't matter a whole lot unless we need Clemency spam on multiple fights

    Devo, DP, and DS which are pretty good on their own. and then GUARDIAN and WINGS which alone is pretty huge. has anyone checked ptr IS he doing the same damage relative to live?

    But yes 100% positive NOT going for hammer spam would be stupid. It's huge and consistent damage. DP is always going to be a gamble. But the fact we can push for mastery focus or even mastery GEMMING and our entire rotation since it's unlikely we will lsoe the ds bonus. The entire rotation is going to consist of mastery proccaable attacks. Hammer spam, TV's, DS procs, and Crusader strikes. The is no way in hell ANY ability is going to compare since Exo doesn't scale with sword of light. Weapon damage will likely end well into mid 40ks ON the weapon and if we apt for mastery > all nothing else will beable to compare. Currently we will be stopping at 35% haste or 30% depending on where the Flat % rating trinkets end at. We still have weapon procs, cloak to consider since these trinket alone are gamebreaking I can't wait to see what else they have planned. Guess they found a way to make us drop Feather asap afterall. Go figure.

    The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is how large a dps drop 4 set while PUSHING mastery stats is going to be when we simple opt for using CS,TV,and HoW. T15 seems irreplaceable unless we get like haste/ mastery / good retarded op sockets on EVERY single piece of tier.

    We however are losing ALOT of strength stacking during cooldowns with these new trinket mechanics.

    We would need atleast 8 DP procs PER minute if these new trinkets scale the way I assume they will. I don't see that happening consistently.

    Then again the 5% damage 2 set is easier to maintain since it ... just happens. as opposed needing to hit exocism to debuff and forgoing a CS holy TV proc chance during your fillers during AW.

    I don't think we can make any definite deicisons until we see weapons / if a legendary weapon is avail/ what cloaks do/ what the weapon procs do. Everything is just so..... I don't know. Blizzard keeps topping themselves this expansion on trinkets we assume are irraplaceable and I don't think anyone expected anything this gamebreaking to show up.

    Assuming the cloak was correct and it's a % to the 3 stats proc. we are looking at some SERIOUS critical damage mods between the trinket and Cloak. Do you have any idea what a 40% critical mod Crit TV would do converted into holy damage while stacking mastery. I'd say a 2 million combined crit is highly possible.

    Can people post their testing findings with how well 4 set T16 and DP interact with eachother? Maybe most of our damage going out being equivalent to TVs will infact make up for losing TV double damage + on the same GCD.

    Keep in mind the tier FORCES us into dropping Holy TVs and from the looks of it. Hammer spam.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 04:50 AM ----------

    Ahem...

    Can someone tell me what THIS string means?

    LEGENDARY_54_CLOAK_VALIDATION - You must be in possession of a Celestial Cloak of Virtue to use this item.
    Either it's the item to MAKE it legendary or it's something you can't USE until you have a legendary cloak.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 04:56 AM ----------

    Flurry of Xuen - Your damaging attacks have a chance to trigger a Flurry of Xuen, causing you to deal 60% weapon damage to all targets in front of you, every 0.5 sec for 3 sec.

    This is apparently the cloak proc. Going to assume this + 2 set means capping to 50% haste with the trinket is going to be mandatory. 5% damage proc, GCD reduction, RPPM, and Flurry.

    Oh my god.... if flurry can proc off each target hit by DS.... that is a free 360% weapon damage cleave over 3 seconds.... /Spurt all over monitor.

    Pretty sure that is a confirmation. Insanely massive add tier and insanely massive add Garrosh encounter incoming.

    More importantly.... are these "flurry procs" going to be like abomb jar hits and proc Seal of Truth? Lets hope so
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 05:01 AM.

  5. #3565
    Grats on listening to what i've been telling you :P

    This tier has no place for sanctified wrath what so ever. it just won't work. blizzard wanted us to break out of the SW mould and try something new, they've accomplished just that, which also means the CD reduction trinket is trash in contrast to the mastery/haste/crit trinket with DP. i don't think its sole intention was to boost dps, but rather add some utility mules to a raid group.

    As you seem to want to know, yes, a DS proc from the four piece is equivalent to a TV mitigated by armor, mastery included. a solid 10 second string of DP/four piece proc is quite common aswell, and serves to dramatically increase mastery's value.

    Although i do hate speculating on these trinkets this early, TF Feather could still be quite useful. thats assuming you cant use both of the aforementioned trinkets, which i don't believe we'll be able too.

    might aswell add that GoaK's damage was/is untouched for the time being.
    Last edited by Solsacra; 2013-06-28 at 05:15 AM.

  6. #3566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Grats on listening to what i've been telling you :P

    This tier has no place for sanctified wrath what so ever. it just won't work. blizzard wanted us to break out of the SW mould and try something new, they've accomplished just that, which also means the CD reduction trinket is trash in contrast to the mastery/haste/crit trinket with DP. i don't think its sole intention was to boost dps, but rather add some utility mules to a raid group.

    As you seem to want to know, yes, a DS proc from the four piece is equivalent to a TV mitigated by armor, mastery included. a solid 10 second string of DP/four piece proc is quite common aswell, and serves to dramatically increase mastery's value.

    Although i do hate speculating on these trinkets this early, TF Feather could still be quite useful. thats assuming you cant use both of the aforementioned trinkets, which i don't believe we'll be able too.

    might aswell add that GoaK's damage was/is untouched for the time being.
    Well the trinket is a pretty big deal if guardian does the same damage since he will be used every 1:30 on average. Wings uptime. The wings uptime was a big deal DP was a pretty cut and dry choice until the reveal that we may be looking at a 1 min wings CD. That changes EVERYTHING

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 05:38 AM ----------

    Heroic Thunderforged Tier is confirmed. So I guess like DS vs holy TV or not 581 HTF 2/2 tier is going to MAKE us go for the new bonus.

    Not sure just how WELL weapons scale since Ilvl can cause larger and larger gains per 1Ilvl the higher it goes but I think 42,000 581 ilvl weapon is a pretty likely scenario. Which with SoL would be a 13-14,000 weapon damage gain. Perhaps DP will push ahead from SW on a pure scaling standpoint because of raw weapon damage jumps.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 05:44 AM.

  7. #3567
    Not necessarily, what makes that combo so strong now is that we are currently able to line up massive strength procs rather predictably with SW. of course we can't do this next tier, these massive AP boosting trinkets just arn't there. HoW's damage as a whole won't change. However, we will gain close to ~10k weapon damage quite quickly, obviously HoW gains no coefficient from weapon damage so, again, no gain.

    Naturally this leads me to the conclusion that a weapon damage oriented setup is the way to go. mechanically with how the current iteration of the four piece functions with DP it really doesn't suffer from RNG, literally every other cast benefits from the stat trinket, whereas the benefits from the CD reduction trinket are not immediatly apparent, sure you gain increased access to CD's but that doesnt mean shit if you have no sustained dps.

  8. #3568
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Not necessarily, what makes that combo so strong now is that we are currently able to line up massive strength procs rather predictably with SW. of course we can't do this next tier, these massive AP boosting trinkets just arn't there. HoW's damage as a whole won't change. However, we will gain close to ~10k weapon damage quite quickly, obviously HoW gains no coefficient from weapon damage so, again, no gain.

    Naturally this leads me to the conclusion that a weapon damage oriented setup is the way to go. mechanically with how the current iteration of the four piece functions with DP it really doesn't suffer from RNG, literally every other cast benefits from the stat trinket, whereas the benefits from the CD reduction trinket are not immediatly apparent, sure you gain increased access to CD's but that doesnt mean shit if you have no sustained dps.
    Guardian and access to wings is essential because they are predictable and large gains. I'm not sure how important devotion aura and outgoing damage in general for these raids will be but seems like alot since they buffed tranqu and stuff last tier ONTOP ofthese trinkets reducing shit like Smoke bomb/ Rally / Devo.

    And yeah with the TIER strength gains. Raw 30 ilvl str gains across the board, and the weapon I'd say we will finish the tier assuming HTF wpn and full heroic NON tf gear. idk... +18,000 weapon damage? roughly 75,000-77,000 raid buffed? Should be 150k un-modded damage per divine storm or 300k per hit if mastery goes beyond 60%.

    We really at this point have to wait type of gear we are looking at and the trinket proc values to be finalized. I think suggesting Holy TV's single target power would be a good suggestion so we can potentially push towards a slightly more powerful set bonus. I'd settle on 70% increased damage on DS.

    Guardian damage especially with 50% haste is pretty substantial and the potential to use him every 2 minutes or less is a pretty big dps upgrade on it's own. Nevermind the fact you can consider his 12% strength to be a lengthy trinket proc in additon to 20% damage uptime which is also nothing to scoff at. + the trinket itself can proc strength. No the CD reduction trinket is too good.

    It kinda sucks because we have NO IDEA what the actual trinket procs are until we see them on live. Fuck I'm pretty sure feathers trinket tooltip is still wrong compared to the benefit it provides. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    The CLEAVE trinket in comparison to others eems weak. If it's infact A FUCKTON higher then first mining shows. and If MULTIPLE DS hits can translate to the primary target. THAT may be the BIS trinket on more then a few encounters with our tier synergy. If you are hitting adds EVEN adds that heal on transitions if DS translates to the PRIMARY target. That is like having a DIRECT Holy templars verdict appear out of thin air.

    The Cleave trinket should NOT be ignored currently especially considering the Xuen cloak proc is a aoe flurry that may end up proccing it aswell. Maybe even guardian swings would be affected?

    So far the only trinket I'm fairly sure will be completely useless is the passive str / haste proc trinket unless that thing has like 80% uptime which I'm skeptical of.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 06:30 AM ----------

    Have no fucking Idea which is the true spell I'd but the tooltip for the trinket on the spell ID lists the passive ratings trinkets as 6% crit mod, mast, haste. Which is roughly 4260 rating + whatever 6% critical damage is worth. That too me seems FAR more likely to be what the TRUE passive values are. We should consider the the CD reduction trinket likely won't go beyond the 17-20% and may Fully cap out at 580 ilvl at the 25% range.

    Considering those things. I think we may need to take a look at the Cleave trinkets and see how it interacts with our spec. Oh and if the Cooldown reduction trinkets don't go beyond 20% let alone 25% DP all the way fuck SW.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 06:58 AM ----------

    The % cooldown trinkets are pretty skewed. For instance you would be retarded to give the agi version to a enh shaman or hunter VS a rogue who gets a reduction on Smoke bomb AND their dps abilities.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 07:06 AM ----------

    Rogues are speculating for trhe trinkets to be working similar to SoB. Essentially what this means is 50% reduction <if it is provided> WOULD NOT be -1 minute It would infact be translated the way SoB is which means it would be roughly 1:30 seconds.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 06:35 AM.

  9. #3569
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Well the trinket is a pretty big deal if guardian does the same damage since he will be used every 1:30 on average. Wings uptime. The wings uptime was a big deal DP was a pretty cut and dry choice until the reveal that we may be looking at a 1 min wings CD. That changes EVERYTHING
    Well, kind-of. Hammer of Wrath is not an AOE ability. It won't be better than DP on a fight with consistent 3+ targets in melee range, on average, or it'll just basically break even on 3 target fights depending on your RNG. It still makes it viable for those 1-2 mob fights (along with having to re-equip T15 4-set, yaay /sarcasm) but I don't think it beats DP outside of that. Holy Avenger is just terrible at this point, though. I doubt it'll get any adjustment.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Heroic Thunderforged Tier is confirmed. So I guess like DS vs holy TV or not 581 HTF 2/2 tier is going to MAKE us go for the new bonus.
    The problem is that it will take a lot of ilvls to actually only break even on 1-2 target fights. That's more of a problem than you think. That's something that Blizzard should be changing, either by nerfing the 4-set and/or buffing the 2-set, or just giving us a flat buff somewhere else. We need to bring this to Blizzard's attention. This is something they'll fix if people bring the issue up, if they don't know about it already.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Not sure just how WELL weapons scale since Ilvl can cause larger and larger gains per 1Ilvl the higher it goes but I think 42,000 581 ilvl weapon is a pretty likely scenario. Which with SoL would be a 13-14,000 weapon damage gain. Perhaps DP will push ahead from SW on a pure scaling standpoint because of raw weapon damage jumps.
    just times it by 1.08 until you get to 581. like so: 581-549=32, so you'd do it four times. 31,629 top end damage times 1.08 four times = 43030.9.

  10. #3570
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Basically you're all wrong and SW shits on everything with CD reductions + haste>crit>mastery inc mark my words.
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  11. #3571
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    But if you do that Nelda then we essentially have no set bonus I'm pretty sure the -10% dps drop from T15 4 set needs made up in ways other then ilvl stats gains everyone else gets. The only way to game the proc is through artifically adding things that CAN proc the 4 set and things the 4 set can proc.

    SW shits right now because of trinket mechanics but as weapon damage scales upwards Hammer slowly falls behind in damage. It's average crit damage is certainly nothing to be amazed at rather then looking at your best cd stacked crit and pointing fingers.

    Which leads me to my next point. If we DO opt for SW that means 4 set is essnetially POOF gone. The question then becomes are the dps gains from potentailly LOTS of extra mastery and LOTS of extra weapon damage gains to come and the potential to have a shorter cd wings with a simplistic Hammer,CS,Hammer,TV repeat rotation optimal in situations without considerable adds where the New T16 would have an edge.

    Personally I think at this point they need to buff TV to 315% weapon damage as compensation. Increase the damage of DS to 125% baseline. And simpley just remove the T15 bonus entirely from the equation and give it flat +5% generic passive dps.

    TLDR The new 4 set cannot function properly without DP
    Hammer generally looks better because the MAJORITY of it comes under cooldowns / +20% modded damage. TV's average which majority fall outside cooldowns / procs is pretty much the average damage HoW produces WITHOUT the consistent benefit HoW has. Add another massive 30 ilvl weapon jump and we are looking out weapons outscaling hoW. And 4 set + DP produce a loop of consistent sustained damage.

    Ontop of all this lies a major mechanic soon to come. Flurry of Xuen which is basically a 360% weapon damage Cleave. and on it's own very strong single target damage. If this cloak proc has a chance to proc PER aoe target hit. Well, that alone could catapult DP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 08:19 AM ----------

    Believe me I would LOVE to keep hammer spam. It's my favorite time when I'm dpsing anything in the game currently. However we are being pushed away from the talent which I don't view as a great design choice but thats where we are.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 08:16 AM.

  12. #3572
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    Doesn't matter what the 4set is and its very minor in the first place (looking at entire picture). No way it can compete with SW at all even w-o CD reduction trinkets. Crit will become even stronger with that cloak proc + if RPPM mentality stays haste will still be king. Mastery is just a shit stat people here too thick to understand why. And ye not to even talk about CRIT DMG increasing trinkets. Wep dmg EVEN with the loss of AP (500str) gems got shit on this tier compared to last (crit alot higher than it used to be vs mastery), so ye don't get me wrong but it won't change for the next either, considering how everything thats NEW only benefits crit and not mastery (aside the new 4set, which IS weaker than current when it comes to mastery value).
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-06-28 at 08:31 AM.
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  13. #3573
    The more and more this patch is revealed, the more and more I get all Giddy with excitement. it's like Christmas all summer.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  14. #3574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Doesn't matter what the 4set is and its very minor in the first place (looking at entire picture). No way it can compete with SW at all even w-o CD reduction trinkets. Crit will become even stronger with that cloak proc + if RPPM mentality stays haste will still be king. Mastery is just a shit stat people here too thick to understand why. And ye not to even talk about CRIT DMG increasing trinkets. Wep dmg EVEN with the loss of AP (500str) gems got shit on this tier compared to last (crit alot higher than it used to be vs mastery), so ye don't get me wrong but it won't change for the next either, considering how everything thats NEW only benefits crit and not mastery (aside the new 4set, which IS weaker than current when it comes to mastery value).
    And then we have a huge add tier where our tier tells us to divine storm. What happens to mastery then?

    HoW didn't fall behind? No fucking kidding when we have 26k strength procs from feather alone during guardian cycles and spark / primo. Both of which are going bye bye for 10 second 11k procs and reduced guardian strength output.

    Meanwhile next tier adds more mastery generated attacks into the roation. and Weapon damage scaling doesn't slow down it actually gets more excessive because the higher the ilvl becomes the more weapon damage / stats you are given PER 1 ilvl. Just look at starshatter 2/2 vs HTF wpn going 2/2 it's nearly a 500 weapon damage difference on those 8 ilvls alone.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 08:45 AM.

  15. #3575
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    And then we have a huge add tier where our tier tells us to divine storm. What happens to mastery then?
    Then you just reforge/adjust for the fight if thats really the case And it never was about HoW really; it was about wings lasting 10seconds longer thus having much higher uptime (so its pretty obvious with CD reduction stuff).
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-06-28 at 08:46 AM.
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  16. #3576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Then you just reforge/adjust for the fight if thats really the case And it never was about HoW really; it was about wings lasting 10seconds longer thus having much higher uptime (so its pretty obvious with CD reduction stuff).
    We can't even make a decision atm. The proc values are likely wrong and only 17%. I bet the cleave trinket values are wrong. We have no idea what the weapon procs we were promised are yet. There are still too many game changers floating around. I hardly expected trinkets to be this huge a factor and thought feather unbeatable. They showed me D:

    The sad truth is it's extremely likely T15 / T16 / and 3+ trinkets and DP + SW are going to be a factor for the entirety of T16 and different sets outperform one another one seperate encounters unless we just get perfect T16 itemization / more sockets. If we do end up sticking with SW or it becomes to go to talent choice for an encounter. T15 seems unbeatable. It's easily +10% dps give or take several % on varying mastery levels.

    This would likely increase as Haste hits the 50% marker allowing the perfect rotation during SW wings. Hammer,CS,Hammer,TV not even a .1sec wasted. and beleive me I have done entire Wings bursts with non stop holy tvs.

    The thing that I always go back to when comparing the set bonus that makes me upset is SINGLE target it's TWO GCDs for LESS damage then a Holy TV with Significantly lower and fewer proc chances. DP helps cushion this RNG but again. It's 2 GCD's for the damage that used to come from ONE GCD. Extra GCD allows for something like... idk a Crusader strike which could potentially proc ANOTHER massive SINGLE gcd attack.

    T16 is driving me fucking crazy
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 09:02 AM.

  17. #3577
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    Well ye of course it's way too early to tell right now for sure what will happen. But it's just speculation based on information we're currently fed + knowledge of spec + history that proves itself really. I mean who knows they may brainfart and make dmg range on weapons retarded high. But ye that cloak proc will prolly be pretty crazy on ret seeing how its prolly affected by SoL+AW+we are 2handed melee+if its RPPM shit.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-06-28 at 09:01 AM.
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  18. #3578
    I just feel like these trinkets are too good to be true. At a reduced percentage maybe, but with normal non-TF at 39%? ehh.

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  19. #3579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Well ye of course it's way too early to tell right now for sure what will happen. But it's just speculation based on information we're currently fed + knowledge of spec + history that proves itself really. I mean who knows they may brainfart and make dmg range on weapons retarded high. But ye that cloak proc will prolly be pretty crazy on ret seeing how its prolly affected by SoL+AW+we are 2handed melee+if its RPPM shit.
    You are right if it's melee mechanics based the cloak should be affected by SoL good catch. Actually since it's weapon damage which by default is affected then thats a 100% confirm. Durp

    When looking at SW <as we should> we need to think of the bigger picture OUTSIDE HoW, Divineshit, and Templars. Flurry of Xuen, Lightning strike, and Censure are CONSIDERABLE damage contributers that are fairly passive that would periodically gain the = 20% damage for an extra 10 seconds. Far more frequent depending on the trinket formula.

    Assuming the trinket formula is SoB based and not a DIRECT reduction say 50% reduction only gives us a 1:30 CD. This would #1 make DP have to consistently OUTPERFORM the gained HoW more frequent HoW usage AND it has to outperform the more frequent 20% damage uptime. It's very likely the 2 set will be multiplicative with wings and not additive. Perhaps someone could check? Not that it matters too much would make wings be a 21% damage benefit while the proc is active.

    I mean at this point in the game you could think of the Wings being a 90 second with the trinket for +20% damage for 10 seconds. Sadly it's not that easy because thats also 10 seconds of powerhouse attacks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:28 AM ----------

    I don't even know what I'm saying anymore I'm too stuck on dropping T15 and trying to game T16 as best as possible.

    Immerseus, Golden lotus, <maybe sha?>, Dark Shamans, Nazgrim, Garrosh, Paragons <even tho the cleave is useless dps unless it procs Xuen damage per target> are what I would ASSUME to be fights where the tier would excel and DP would be pretty fairly mandatory.

    Do others fights have significant adds?
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 09:18 AM.

  20. #3580
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post

    [/COLOR]I don't even know what I'm saying anymore I'm too stuck on dropping T15 and trying to game T16 as best as possible.

    Immerseus, Golden lotus, <maybe sha?>, Dark Shamans, Nazgrim, Garrosh, Paragons <even tho the cleave is useless dps unless it procs Xuen damage per target> are what I would ASSUME to be fights where the tier would excel and DP would be pretty fairly mandatory.

    Do others fights have significant adds?
    Regardless of the fights I wouldn't scrap the current tier 4set (I might even go grab gloves in case there's some mentally retarded strong shoulders offset next tier) There's bound to be fights where our aoe range (8yards) isn't going to be efficient compared to our single target (and locks, boomies, spriests is going to be strong for the spread out aoe anyways).

    The only thing I'm curious about is how much stronger mastery is going to get when we have 50% uptime on AV, you can't do HoW more than every other GCD regardless of haste (unless you have a trinket proc with 10k+ haste and hero, or primordius with 5 haste stacks) so mastery is going to be really strong. Can't help thinking that strength might be stronger than haste as well next tier looking at some of the trinkets and special effects...
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