Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Deleted]

Haste has no DR. At least not in the traditional sense.

as i understand, you need less haste rating to rdeuce gcd from 1.5 to 1.4 as from 1.1 to 1.0 or am i wrong?

[Vanderhuge]

Krekko stealing my stuff! I'm being repressed!

I don't ever recall voting for him! It twas a good choice!

[Deleted]

as i understand, you need less haste rating to rdeuce gcd from 1.5 to 1.4 as from 1.1 to 1.0 or am i wrong?

Yes because it looks like this: 1.5/n, where n is (1+haste[%]).
But the amount of extra gcds/abilities you get, during a given timeframe (T) is linear. T/(1.5/n) = n*(T/1.5), in this aspect it scales completely linearly. You get to preform the same amount of extra actions for the same amount of rating. And DR would meant, that it would take more and more rating to increase your haste (n) by the same percentage. Which isn't true.

[Imperviable]

Yes because it looks like this: 1.5/n, where n is (1+haste[%]).
But the amount of extra gcds/abilities you get, during a given timeframe (T) is linear. T/(1.5/n) = n*(T/1.5), in this aspect it scales completely linearly. You get to preform the same amount of extra actions for the same amount of rating. And DR would meant, that it would take more and more rating to increase your haste (n) by the same percentage. Which isn't true.

As haste increases, it's value compared to other stats decreases. Point for point, you get less value in comparison to other stats as haste increases.

[Krekko]

Krekko stealing my stuff! I'm being repressed!

I don't always steal stuff but when I do!

Next is the thread title

[anaxie]

I don't always steal stuff but when I do!

Next is the thread title

My title with withstand time!

[Deleted]

not a fan of bloating a thread to ask a question that's proabaly already bin answered but 268 pages is a lot to trawl!

got thoks tail tip tonight and looking at it suggests to me tht i shud prio crit over mastery now as they both run pretty close in simc. amirite?

also, since have galak and thoks trink + 4pc is there any validity in a build tht drops all haste for crit/mastery speccing into tier 5 Dp and relying on procs hitting like trucks as i already have abilities off Cd for long periods especially while wrath is up. thoughts?

[Imperviable]

not a fan of bloating a thread to ask a question that's proabaly already bin answered but 268 pages is a lot to trawl!

got thoks tail tip tonight and looking at it suggests to me tht i shud prio crit over mastery now as they both run pretty close in simc. amirite?

also, since have galak and thoks trink + 4pc is there any validity in a build tht drops all haste for crit/mastery speccing into tier 5 Dp and relying on procs hitting like trucks as i already have abilities off Cd for long periods especially while wrath is up. thoughts?

Mastery/Crit>Haste is only viable for sustained aoe damage. Most encounters don't allow this.

[anaxie]

Mastery/Crit>Haste is only viable for sustained aoe damage. Most encounters don't allow this.

Haste=Mastery because with gems everything is interchangable to stay at the 40% value. So essentially a crit/haste and a Crit/mast item should be viewed as the exact same stats.

[Imperviable]

Haste=Mastery because with gems everything is interchangable to stay at the 40% value. So essentially a crit/haste and a Crit/mast item should be viewed as the exact same stats.

He specifically asked about AoE.

[anaxie]

He specifically asked about AoE.

You shouldn't want to have AoE focus unless its spoils heroic.

not a fan of bloating a thread to ask a question that's proabaly already bin answered but 268 pages is a lot to trawl!

got thoks tail tip tonight and looking at it suggests to me tht i shud prio crit over mastery now as they both run pretty close in simc. amirite?

also, since have galak and thoks trink + 4pc is there any validity in a build tht drops all haste for crit/mastery speccing into tier 5 Dp and relying on procs hitting like trucks as i already have abilities off Cd for long periods especially while wrath is up. thoughts?

He didn't ask for AoE anyhow...

[Imperviable]

You shouldn't want to have AoE focus unless its spoils heroic.


He didn't ask for AoE anyhow...

My fault. I forgot what I was posting about since it was a few hours ago. My point was that if he was going to run those stat weights with the intention of just relying on procs, it would only be viable in an AoE situation which is nonexistant in SoO.

[anaxie]

My fault. I forgot what I was posting about since it was a few hours ago. My point was that if he was going to run those stat weights with the intention of just relying on procs, it would only be viable in an AoE situation which is nonexistant in SoO.

Galakras / Speedkill H nazgrim <adds on boss>/ Protectors / Spoils are AoE spam bosses...

[Imperviable]

Galakras / Speedkill H nazgrim <adds on boss>/ Protectors / Spoils are AoE spam bosses...

Galakras: maybe.
Nazgrim Speedkill: You've downed the boss, but I suppose if you really wanted to, you could reforge and regem for a farm fight to inflate meters.
Protectors: You'll get 2 most of the time and rarely three. For the proposed stat weights you'd need 4 for the entire fight.
Spoils: Possible but it's not consistant enough.


The stat scaling posted on EJ's paladin thread. At the same time it was recognized that no fight had a consistant 5 adds that would allow you to utilize these stat priorities.

[anaxie]

Galakras: maybe.
Nazgrim Speedkill: You've downed the boss, but I suppose if you really wanted to, you could reforge and regem for a farm fight to inflate meters.
Protectors: You'll get 2 most of the time and rarely three. For the proposed stat weights you'd need 4 for the entire fight.
Spoils: Possible but it's not consistant enough.


The stat scaling posted on EJ's paladin thread. At the same time it was recognized that no fight had a consistant 5 adds that would allow you to utilize these stat priorities.

You are right. Spoils H isn't an aoe fight.

I'm a little new at this. Just leveled this paladin a week ago actually.

[Imperviable]

You are right. Spoils H isn't an aoe fight.

I'm a little new at this. Just leveled this paladin a week ago actually.

While we're being snarky, I'm surprised you didn't immediately dismiss the stat scaling graph on the basis that whoever posted it wasn't as progressed as you were and thus not as good at math.

Anyhow, unless my memory and reading skills have failed me again, I never stated that Spoils wasn't an AoE fight. However, unless I've been raiding an entirely different Horde city this tier, I didn't realize Spoils had 5 adds up the entire time that you could always cleave. I can't claim to have done heroic spoils but my understand was that the difficulty was killing the huge adds and that the cleave was a trivial part of the fight.

Are we even arguing the same subject? You are actually advocating going Crit/Mastery>Haste (not even haste to 40% just straight crit mast) on Galakras, Spoils, Protectors and situationally Nazgrim?

[anaxie]

Hell no, but you certainly have 5+ targets the entire time on spoils. Sparks are quite... potent... and mantid side if you aren't spamming crates with bosses you're doing it wrong.

Protectors ? No reason to ever split them up.

Galakras? Spin2Win


I'd never regem /reforge though. The amount you would swap haste to crit. It would be such a pitiful meaningless amount you would hardly notice nevermind Procs will dictate your dps further then the fickle randomness of crit.

I prefer static well scaling things, Mastery / Haste so when you do chain 10 + ds+dp procs in a row on adds. You are guaranteed to be wrecking the charts.

Way I look at it for ret right now? stats are all similar. While they are similar only one has the potential to under perform unless it's purposefully being stacked to absurd levels <warriors>. It's no coincidence that contrary to what the "sims" say most players are still opting for the Haste 39-40%>mastery>crit I'm pretty sure we had this happen before. I think it was DS? Maybe earlier? ppl claimed to stack a seperate stat as 2nd priority and nearly everyone with common sense of the actual raid environment did the reverse.

There actually is an element into all all the numbers that dictate what to do / wear/ gem/ spec. It's known as actually being capable of playing the game. This is often why I scoff at people who just can't play the game trying to figure out how to optimize it. Not specifically you but you are still pretty green on how encounters work in SoO too.

[Imperviable]

Hell no, but you certainly have 5+ targets the entire time on spoils. Sparks are quite... potent... and mantid side if you aren't spamming crates with bosses you're doing it wrong.

Since I haven't done that fight, I'll take your word for it though I'm skeptical about whether or not you can reach the sparks, the video I watched showed them spawning a bit away with the healers tidal waving them down.

If you aren't advocating crit/mast > haste then we're on the same page. The post I responded to asked whether or not it was viable to run that stat priority alongside with Divine Purpose in the interest of relying entirely on hard hitting procs. I told him that while it would be optimal for a sustained AoE situation, that wasn't the case in SoO.

I can see why

My point was that if he was going to run those stat weights with the intention of just relying on procs, it would only be viable in an AoE situation which is nonexistant in SoO.

would be misleading though. I meant to say that an AoE situation in which it would be optimal to run Crit/Mast > Haste does not exist. I did not mean to imply that there were no AoE fights.

[anaxie]

If you are doing mogu bosses they should be tanked in the middle of the room and you cleave down spawned sparks / spawned statues.

If you are on Mantid bosses you always have 5-8 things up.


As for the aoe "guy" he needs to understand that if he is avoiding haste HE likely wont get that final storm off or build up to another fast enough before they are all dead. He could crit nothing while stacking it but if h es doing haste he most assuredly will do more aoe attacks to the targets.

And hey if ur in Max BiS levels where i think you have like 2500 ish crit rating total. Thats like what. Roughly 25% raid buffed? Think of any and every crit you do as entirely free. Stack 20k crit rating, you prolly woulda crit that attack with only 5k.

Unless the class has procs / damage / abilities that rely on crit I see absolutely zero reason to stack it. Well unless they would of done a 4th tier and we got 50% haste 90% mastery then ya boom crit. This expansions scaling is retarded as fuck.

Squish please.

[Deleted]

As haste increases, it's value compared to other stats decreases. Point for point, you get less value in comparison to other stats as haste increases.

But that is because of how haste increases the value of other stats. Just as other stats increase the value of haste. It still doesn't has a DR.