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  1. #61
    We had Darkmist at 50 second ICD for some reason. Strength is stronger than haste - you are basically gaining 450 strength from the trinket switch - that's around a 1k dps gain.

    Also notice that I did say that Lei Shin is a dps increase over Xuen - you don't need to belittle me.

    Thank you for pointing out the trinket thing for me though. Also note that I found and fixed another bug with Hand of Light benefiting from the spell dmg debuff when it shouldn't.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 06:31 PM ----------

    The reason we were using Xuen before was because we didn't know the Lei Shin ICD was so short.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 06:33 PM ----------

    What does my join date for MMO-C have to do with anything?

    Also I'm consistently wrong about everything? Who was the one who didn't know how Sanctified Wrath works? I'm not the one who is posting five minute dummy tests that aren't even raid buffed as proof of stat weightings either.
    Last edited by Balhale; 2012-09-01 at 01:35 AM.

  2. #62
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Stormlash. Chapter One...

    -- The base damage is 20% of AP or 30% of SP, whichever is higher.
    -- That amount is multiplied by 0.2 for normal pets, and by 0 for guardian pets.
    -- Next, if it’s an autoattack (or spell that we count as an autoattack such as Wind Lash or Shadow Blades or Tiger Strikes), then it’s multiplied by 0.4, and then by WeaponSpeed / 2.6. And if it’s an offhand attack, it’s then multiplied by 0.5.
    -- If it’s periodic damage, it doesn’t Stormlash, unless it’s Mind Flay, Malefic Grasp, or Drain Soul.
    -- For all other spells, it’s then multiplied by BaseCastTime / 1.5 sec, with a floor on the BaseCastTime of 1.5 sec.
    -- And then there are multipliers for certain spells: 2x for Lightning Bolt, 2x for Lava Burst, 2x for Drain Soul, 0.5x for Sinister Strike.
    -- Finally, that’s the average damage it deals. It will actually deal that +/- 15 %.
    -- It also has a 0.1 sec ICD on triggering, and can miss based on spell hit.

    Important update since stormlash is in everyones damage now.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    I'm back! I'll update the OP asap along with useful information from my perspective. Also a shout out Pbad will not be raiding hardcore anymore and I havnt seen butosai in ages. So their presence in this community may be ghostlike in the following tiers. Never fear! You still have myself and Requital for expert opinions and theorycraft / dps backed by our 7+ years of Retribution experience in high end content and parsing top 10 consistently.

    I ask for the community to consolidate all mop information and 5.0 information / questions to this one thread rather then spreading it to 20 something others which quickly become buried in the clutter.
    Im here, Ive just been busy having a life. Il raid in mop, though not hardcore at first, I dont forsee ranking being any problem. Also any semi laid back guilds out there that dont raid monday/tues that want a ret legend to raid for them?

  4. #64
    Very easy to add a line in the SimC profile to delay wings until Lei Shin procs. Might be a ~3-5 sec delay each time, but will probably slightly increase overall dps. The reason you won't see us jump over 120k is the mastery reduction + spell dmg fix.

    Edit: Coincidentally, delaying wings for Lei Shin makes it slightly more likely to line up with Vortex as well, especially with SW. Good for us.
    Last edited by Zephur; 2012-09-01 at 04:37 AM.

  5. #65
    Delaying wings for Lei Shin is a further 1k dps gain - you lose half a cast of wings on average. I'll mess with it and see if I can't get anything better out of it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 11:37 PM ----------

    Average interval between wings casts goes from 1:35 to 1:43.

  6. #66
    Hey Anaxie, reading your BiS list, and you have "good ol' Pvp Gloves", are they still the best to take, since the equip is 10yrds on Judgment instead of 5% crusader Strike damage now.

    Or is having that 10yrds good for movement fights or something im missing. As I thought with lower Ilvl, without the 5% straight damage component that PvP gloves will fall far behind actual Epic gloves?

    Just an inquiry.

  7. #67
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    Im here, Ive just been busy having a life. Il raid in mop, though not hardcore at first, I dont forsee ranking being any problem. Also any semi laid back guilds out there that dont raid monday/tues that want a ret legend to raid for them?
    If you're EU check out my guild in the sub bar.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    Hey Anaxie, reading your BiS list, and you have "good ol' Pvp Gloves", are they still the best to take, since the equip is 10yrds on Judgment instead of 5% crusader Strike damage now.

    Or is having that 10yrds good for movement fights or something im missing. As I thought with lower Ilvl, without the 5% straight damage component that PvP gloves will fall far behind actual Epic gloves?

    Just an inquiry.
    thats the 4 piece bonus not the glove bonus.

    Also im US

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    thats the 4 piece bonus not the glove bonus.
    Actually that is the hands equip effect, 4 piece is gaining a charge of HP whenever you take dmg (8 sec cd).

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    thats the 4 piece bonus not the glove bonus.

    Also im US
    The Glove bonus is now 10yrd added to Judgment instead of 5% CS.

    So my question is still Valid.


    Equip: Increases your hit rating by 457 (1.34% @ L90).
    Equip: Increases your critical strike rating by 537 (0.90% @ L90).
    Equip: Increases your resilience rating by 322 (1.04% @ L90).
    Equip: Increases the range of your Judgment by 10 yards.

    The new Gloves Secondaries and bonus. I am thinking we Use PvE Gloves now. due to 2 tier higher STR
    Last edited by Pool of the Dead; 2012-09-01 at 12:34 PM.

  11. #71
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    I actually got non tier chest for offset as of this beta build, 2 yellow sockets which gives a crit socket bonus, a ton of crit on the chest also pulls it down. T14 chest http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87099

    I'm thinking this is going to be slightly better - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87048
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I actually got non tier chest for offset as of this beta build, 2 yellow sockets which gives a crit socket bonus, a ton of crit on the chest also pulls it down. T14 chest http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87099

    I'm thinking this is going to be slightly better - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87048
    Since gloves no longer give CS bonus and instead give Judgment a longer range, that looks like a better off-set piece.

  13. #73
    Choice is between off set chest or off set shoulders. Off set chest is haste mastery with red/yellow sockets vs. set chest is haste crit with 2 yellows and crit bonus vs. off set shoulders are crit mastery with red socket str bonus vs. hit haste tier shoulders with a blue socket. This is only an issue because it is nigh impossible to stay at hit cap with the current gear choices. In order to use the higher ilvl elite pieces, you have to take the off set shoulders or go way over hit cap. If you don't have the elite pieces or their regular/heroic versions yet, then sure, go with the off set chest.

    Other thing is that the off set shoulders are half a tier higher than the off set chest, which makes them even better to take.
    Last edited by Balhale; 2012-09-01 at 07:14 PM.

  14. #74
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Choice is between off set chest or off set shoulders. Off set chest is haste mastery with red/yellow sockets vs. set chest is haste crit with 2 yellows and crit bonus vs. off set shoulders are crit mastery with red socket str bonus vs. hit haste tier shoulders with a blue socket. This is only an issue because it is nigh impossible to stay at hit cap with the current gear choices. In order to use the higher ilvl elite pieces, you have to take the off set shoulders or go way over hit cap. If you don't have the elite pieces or their regular/heroic versions yet, then sure, go with the off set chest.

    Other thing is that the off set shoulders are half a tier higher than the off set chest, which makes them even better to take.
    There is no offset chest choice the only 509 offset is shoulders Why did you make a longwinded post when it's not even debateable 502<509.

    Unless you plan on using a 502 chest in your BIS profile.

    Also OP isnt updated I havn't had time to redo everytihing and I would rather change everything in one go.

    Also I'm sure you can use the offset and elite and be perfectly fine on hitcap don't be silly.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 07:27 PM.

  15. #75
    Sigh. That's basically what I said in my post. The people posting right above me were suggesting taking a 502 offset chest.

  16. #76
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    QUestion Balhale.

    Would you say 50 haste is stronger then 50 strength currently at 85 on live? and how would you gem orange and blue sockets?

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 08:47 PM ----------

    Testing Templar and CS on dummies with the spelldamage debuff applied

    I obtained these numbers using 57.02 mastery *.88 <the nerf> 50.18% Mastery
    Without Inquisition

    Crusader 12088
    HoL 6558

    12088 *.5702 = 6893
    6893 * .88 = 6065

    6065 * 1.05 = 6369 Hmm thats not right
    6065 * 1.08 = 6551

    HoL 6558 = 6551

    Templars 33927
    HoL 18407

    33927 * .5702 = 19,345
    19345 * .88 = 17023

    17023 * 1.05 = 17875
    17023 * 1.08 = 18386

    HoL 18407 = 18386
    Not only is hand of light working like it always has with % spell damage taken which i thought was absurd when u claimed to remove it from simc as a bug balhale, it's also still the old 8% spelldamage not 5%. That is a bug that should be changed but may be overlooked.

    What can we learn from this? Well not only are we not doing 111k in your simcraft we are doing even more because Hammer of wrath Should double dip. it is a spell afterall.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 08:51 PM.

  17. #77
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Since this is probably going to be the theory crafting thread for Ret during at least the first tier of MoP there are a few things that really need to be ironed out here. So i'm going to lay it flat out on the table here any proper TC that is done is done for the betterment of the spec for the Ret community that means that a few things have to happen.

    Balhale, You are doing the Simc work that means that you need to realize a few things. There are Ret Paladins in these forums that are more experienced than you at the class and might be better players that you. Based on your Armory and your Heroic Experience maybe you played a different class but your Paladin shows you lack experience. We all have a common goal here so when someone more experienced tells you something is at a miss you need to drop the attitude and take it at face value that you might be wrong.

    Now for myself I can put my ego aside and ignore my direct feelings as how things have been up to this point. I myself can say TC wise I'm very experienced and have been doing it for a very long time. Maybe not in Simc programming but simple fact of the matter is I have the experience to back up what I say and do.

    How do we come to an agreement?

    1. We can't tell you how to program simc we can only tell you when something is at a miss it's up to you to find a way to get that information from us but you need to take our opinion at face value and not dispute it because simc says so. IF you need something from us you need to tell us what you need.

    A. Logs?
    B. Testing?
    C. What do you need you tell us we can't tell you.

    2. Based on what we have seen so far you are inexperienced at Ret and that is fine everyone has to start somewhere no one knows it all immediately I sure didn't it took me a lot of work to get to where I am. Learn from people we can help you with cooldown line ups, gear choices and even stat values you but this requires cooperation bickering isn't going to help anyone out here and whoever has this biggest forum epeen doesn't help someone get the proper information.

    3. Let by gones be by gones don't hold a grudge and I won't let's figure a way to work together to help the community and get the best data out of Ret. No one is getting proper information at this point because no one agrees on anything that isn't solving anything. We have a month to have our cards in line so we can get the best performance out of the spec we all want to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  18. #78
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Well said requital hell i just ironed out that % spelldamage does and always has affected ret and he removed it from simcraft calling it a simc bug.

    ALso figured out its still 8% O_o

    Also simcraft 7.5 minutes test ends at the most horrible time in the game second for second for ret. Directly ends when wings WOULD be off cooldown. Down to the wire....

    take a 8 min or even 10 min smcraft i guarantee we would be 118k after u fix the spelldamage and reapply it to the spec. Also it's sad to see 2500 iterations didn't we always say nothing less then 100k is useful to iron out RNG requital?

    Also most profiles unless its in the neutral race simc use trolls and orcs for classes greatly inflating troll mages with 20% cast time cooldown. However I doubt we have troll mages on the allaince. Nevertheless only goats gain from racials in mop but if everyone is going to do a pissing contest in the simcraft you may aswell change to race from tauren to draenie. my 2cents.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 09:21 PM ----------

    Information around the forum is the plate specilization for paladins 5% strength is not in our spellbook but remains in other classes. This is horrible and needs a word from blue immediatly if anyone cares to spam post about it. We cannot trust strength and ap toolstips after the horseshit with our mastery showing wrong and being different.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Still have the perk checked on live but it isn't in the spellbook. Posted in the beta analysis thread to atleast bring attention that it doesn't appear in the book and may be bugged. Can't trust tooltips afterall, not after the mastery tooltip fiasco so fresh in our minds.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 09:02 PM.

  19. #79
    1. Yes, logs would be nice instead of of screenshots of recount. If a number for the damage of some ability in simc looks off, tell me. If you think the priority list being used is wrong, say so.

    2. You've obviously looked up my armory - do tell, what gear choices and stat balance choices am I making incorrectly? By the way, not being 8/8H doesn't mean I don't know how to play ret - my guild (in it for friends, not progression) has lost half our raid team in the last 2 months including the gm, co gm, and 2 officers.

    Being more experienced does not make you two always correct if you disagree with me - as shown with anaxie's misconception of SancWrath.

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    1. Yes, logs would be nice instead of of screenshots of recount. If a number for the damage of some ability in simc looks off, tell me. If you think the priority list being used is wrong, say so.

    2. You've obviously looked up my armory - do tell, what gear choices and stat balance choices am I making incorrectly? By the way, not being 8/8H doesn't mean I don't know how to play ret - my guild (in it for friends, not progression) has lost half our raid team in the last 2 months including the gm, co gm, and 2 officers.

    Being more experienced does not make you two always correct if you disagree with me - as shown with anaxie's misconception of SancWrath.
    Look in the last post I just said let by gones be by gones what part of that said target me and egg on more arguments over petty shit? Do you really want to tell you what wrong with your Armory or do you just want squash it and drop it? Don't post your snide remarks about recount which has ZERO baring on anything JUST DROP IT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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