Is it easier... or what?

[Malthurius]

Then why there are 80 (!) of them?

They only serve as a way to feed content to the player at a pace and provide a certain sense of progression. Basically what they do in every game, so in that sense it is important, but in the long run being level 80 isn't going to be the biggest deal in the world when you go back to a level 40 zone because of scaling.

[terrahero]

I think it took me about 10 minutes to get past the first events (mini tutorial). And thats just what? level 2 or 3. I think it would get me at least another 50mins to go to level 6-7.

The intro quest thingy gets you to lv2. And you'd be rushing if it was 10min i guess, i just did Human area and that took longer then 10min. Even if we ignore that part and start at lv2, in order to get to lv13 in an hour would mean getting a level every 5minutes. Seems highly unlikely.

[DrakeWurrum]

Then why there are 80 (!) of them?

Because Arena Net felt that NOT including levels would've turned off way too many people. A lot of people refused to play GW1, some of my friends included, simply because there were only 20 levels, which you could very rapidly achieve, regardless of being able to still collect skill points afterwards. I got turned off by this even. After a while of being level 20, I found myself thinking "What, this is it?"
Sure, the mechanics and gameplay were fun, the content was pretty interesting, but it felt lacking.

For whatever reason, the average gamer is not ready for an RPG that has no levels. So they added an illusion of leveling to the game, to still give you that old feeling of leveling your character that people have grown to love, while still not really restricting your gameplay.

[Papaj]

Having unknowingly dropped close to 100 hours of the 142 hours total that BWEs and stress tests have allowed us time to play, I'm going to say you were enjoying yourself more. Its a ridiculously fun game and flowing game. Leveling went by really quick because you just naturally accumulate lots of XP by doing things as you endlessly explore. The only real time you backtrack is to turn in a Renown Heart event, much more exciting and lively than "Go to quest hub, pick up quest, kill mobs, return to hub, pick up next quests, rinse lather repeat 5 times, go to next quest hub."

[drkn]

The leveling curve isn't as steep as in your regular MMO. It takes more or less the same amount of time to level up from 10 to 11 as it does to level up from 60 to 61 - and the trend is kept at the highest levels, too; of course if you're participating in content suggested for your level, as the downscaling - while really terrific - won't bring you much xps.
More so, you're being awarded for simply exploring - you don't have to grind mobs to exp up, you can do just about anything, from exploring, to crafting, to participating in dynamic events, to kicking asses in WvWvW. The crafting system isn't as tedious as in most MMOs i've played - especially Aion or L2 - so it serves as a viable way of leveling up, too.

[Lucas Ashrock]

The leveling curve isn't as steep as in your regular MMO. It takes more or less the same amount of time to level up from 10 to 11 as it does to level up from 60 to 61 - and the trend is kept at the highest levels, too; of course if you're participating in content suggested for your level, as the downscaling - while really terrific - won't bring you much xps.
More so, you're being awarded for simply exploring - you don't have to grind mobs to exp up, you can do just about anything, from exploring, to crafting, to participating in dynamic events, to kicking asses in WvWvW. The crafting system isn't as tedious as in most MMOs i've played - especially Aion or L2 - so it serves as a viable way of leveling up, too.

You forgot: and you can just help people, gaining karma for your new armor, so beautiful. Just an other way to keep playing, making friendship, have fun together (not running him, downscale is awesome), and be more cool. What's better..

[Binaris]

Because Arena Net felt that NOT including levels would've turned off way too many people. A lot of people refused to play GW1, some of my friends included, simply because there were only 20 levels, which you could very rapidly achieve, regardless of being able to still collect skill points afterwards. I got turned off by this even. After a while of being level 20, I found myself thinking "What, this is it?"
Sure, the mechanics and gameplay were fun, the content was pretty interesting, but it felt lacking.

For whatever reason, the average gamer is not ready for an RPG that has no levels. So they added an illusion of leveling to the game, to still give you that old feeling of leveling your character that people have grown to love, while still not really restricting your gameplay.

The man speaks the truth. That was one of my turnoffs as well that prevented me in the early days. In fact, i remember debating its merit quite often with my 63 yr old supervisor (wtf). The way I see it, levels provide progression. A feeling of achievement. Then again, as there becomes too much leveling, it loses its flare which was answered by blizzards achievement system. The ability to set smaller goals like clearing zones helped immensely.

Humans are trained to think in goal oriented manner. To achieve a new high score, to get a higher lvl, to finish the zone. To tie things together. To achieve a higher grade, to get the the next grade, to graduate. Due to this I don't believe players will ever respond well to a level-less design as it is harder to relate to.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Kinda funny, but when I got closer to level 30, 1 level took me approx 90 minutes...o.O, kinda weird. Other than that I didn't spend one second minding my level other than when it came to not entering too high level zones. I just did what I wanted and got xp.

[rhandric]

Kinda funny, but when I got closer to level 30, 1 level took me approx 90 minutes...o.O, kinda weird. Other than that I didn't spend one second minding my level other than when it came to not entering too high level zones. I just did what I wanted and got xp.

Which is pretty much the rate they want after 30, possibly even earlier

[draykorinee]

Kinda funny, but when I got closer to level 30, 1 level took me approx 90 minutes...o.O, kinda weird. Other than that I didn't spend one second minding my level other than when it camee to not entering too high level zones. I just did what I wanted and got xp.

seems like a reasonable amount of time per level. i like the Sig too spot on.

[DrakeWurrum]

This is true, but at the same time the justification that people give for the lack of "traditional endgame/progression" is that you don't need that, just play for fun, this isn't WoW, etc.

Basically, if levels are needed because people have a hard time accepting a lack of goals/progression/building/etc....then how will people respond to an "endgame" that lacks those things?

Because there are other goals to have fun with. :O!

[Binaris]

The thing is, we don't know what other goals will be included to keep things fresh for lvl 80s. Sure you can go back and dynamically quest areas you have already been, but personally I think that won't cut it. That is not to say that the game will fail.

On the contrary, (Pure speculation), I would not be shocked to discover that massive events like the Shatterer event that deal with these champions become common place. Like perhaps weekly, one or 2 major world events could happen chosen at random. The simple fact is. we don't KNOW everything.

There will be goals. They are simply trying to avoid those goals being boiled down to a few stat points on a new piece of gear forcing everyone into this forced line of progression as opposed to letting people choose.

[DrakeWurrum]

The thing is, we don't know what other goals will be included to keep things fresh for lvl 80s.

Technically, we do. Collection of gear sets. Collection of all skills. Collection of legendary weapons which require skill points to purchase/create. Exploring the entire world. Completing EDE events. Completing every dungeon. Collecting all the dyes. Completing the Personal Story. Collect vanity items that are not necessarily gear. Collect town clothes. Encountering DEs that you've never done before, and doing as many as you can. Daily/weekly/monthly achievements (yes, these existed).

We probably don't know every goal, as we really have to experience it for ourselves to be able to list them all, but we do know exactly what the game has for us at 80 - it's all the same shit that we had at 30. In the end, most of those goals are very simply "just for fun" goals.
Not that goals in, say, WoW are NOT fun, but a lot of the time there's only ONE goal: get more powerful.

[Binaris]

I stand corrected (or more accurately sit my fat ass). We know a lot of the goals. Though most cater towards completionists which is ok. I still think a large pool of random world boss events would do wonders to hook certain demographics. Especially if you know the approx times in the week. Even if it is just for cosmetic upgrades, people would defiantely be all over these events.

[DrakeWurrum]

Don't get me wrong. I've been a hardcore raider, and I value killing "big bads" much more than those completionist goals (though, as the kind of player who has to "complete" to be satisfied, those goals are attractive), and I certainly hope that the "big bads" we can encounter prove to be challenging.

I also find myself hoping for entirely random major events. Like what happened at the end of BWE2 in Plains of Ashford. Maybe not exactly that, but events like that happening every month or so would be... just plain awesome.
I still find myself thinking that the most epic event they could possibly implement would be to have an elder dragon periodically attack a major city for 24-hour periods, every few weeks. Completely shut down that one city, forcing players of all levels to react to it and defend it. So long as that one city is not Lion's Arch, since if LA is shut down, the different races become much less connected.

[carnifex2005]

Here's a good video about leveling up in GW2...

[draykorinee]

Not that goals in, say, WoW are NOT fun, but a lot of the time there's only ONE goal: get more powerful.

Achievement whoring entails a huge amount of alternatives than to get powerful and thats just one facet, I think thats quite a narrow view of what wow has to offer. However not to denegrate in to yet another wow topic I agree that we do have quite a good view of whats on offer at end game, the big question is, as binaris says, its all a little bit to aimed to wards the completionist. Dont get me wrong its going to be fun none the less but as always its going to be personal whether its enough to remove that treadmill weve all been running on :P

[Binaris]

I still find myself thinking that the most epic event they could possibly implement would be to have an elder dragon periodically attack a major city for 24-hour periods, every few weeks. Completely shut down that one city, forcing players of all levels to react to it and defend it. So long as that one city is not Lion's Arch, since if LA is shut down, the different races become much less connected.

That would definitely be awesome and actually realistic due to the way the game works. In other games, things like this would be less likely to work due to pvp and leveling implications. GW2 has a single faction so no worries there. And due to level downscaling, they could tune the attacks to the level of the area being attacked. Players cannot complain it interrupts the leveling process as if they are leveling in the zone, then they are level appropriate for the event. Give incentives like a currency for special cosmetic upgrades or boosts and people would be hooked.

Btw drake. Almost 10k posts in under 18 months. wtf dude. wtf.

[Loaf Lord]

Drake is never offline.

[draykorinee]

Drake is never offline.

And, I mean this in a nice way, hes always got a lot to say :P