DW vs S&B and more - Monk act III

[Deleted]

Hello.

I'm running a crit/cyclone build, and I'm progressing through act III (just killed Ghom). However, I'm having trouble with most champion packs, and I feel this is largely due to my gear.

My build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...kbg!XZU!acbacY

My gear: http://oi47.tinypic.com/351fwaw.jpg

My stats (Dual Wield)(buffed with Blazing Wrath + Foresight):
http://oi46.tinypic.com/k53qt.jpg

My stats (Sword & Board)(buffed with Blazing Wrath + Foresight):
http://oi48.tinypic.com/2gxmr6d.jpg

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Some questions:

1) What stats should I work on improving? The obvious thing would be to pump my resists up by about 100. But what else?

1.1) What items should I work on upgrading, and with what (what stats etc.)?

2) How is my health? Too high, too low, spot on?

3) How (if at all) should I change my build around?

4. Should I be Dual Wielding or running with 1H + Shield (now and in the future)? If the latter, what changes can I make to my build/stats (MoC -> MoE?) to make Dual Wield a valid option too?

I realise all of these questions are subjective - I know there, for the most part - are multiple asnwers to each of these questions, of which none necessarily are right or wrong. However, I'm interested in hearing what has worked out the best for all of you people with more experience in act III and beyond than I have.

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Thanks in advance
Sarve

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 12:17 AM ----------

Fixed build link.

[WskyDK]

Health is fine, I would change your build a bit, drop deadly reach for the blind + dmg boost, also MoE +Hard target should get you a good chunk of armor, in turn upping your survivabilty.

Also I would drop sweeping wind for crippling wave+ the damage reduction or damage boost rune (i pretty much hate sweeping wind as it's too expensive)

[Deleted]

Health is fine, I would change your build a bit, drop deadly reach for the blind + dmg boost, also MoE +Hard target should get you a good chunk of armor, in turn upping your survivabilty.

Also I would drop sweeping wind for crippling wave+ the damage reduction or damage boost rune (i pretty much hate sweeping wind as it's too expensive)

I'm relying on Deadly Reach for harder champ packs. Also, by entire build is about Sweeping Wind. Wouldn't exactly be wise to replace it.

[Cairhiin]

Health is fine, I would change your build a bit, drop deadly reach for the blind + dmg boost, also MoE +Hard target should get you a good chunk of armor, in turn upping your survivabilty.

Also I would drop sweeping wind for crippling wave+ the damage reduction or damage boost rune (i pretty much hate sweeping wind as it's too expensive)

Sweeping Wind is our best damage ability. Too expensive? It's cheap considering how much damage it does. It also has great synergy with the Resolve passive.

Your HP are fine but your resistances are a tad low. I'm not sure about dual wield builds though as I went sword and board. I basically used two builds. One similar to yours but with Blinding Flash instead of Deadly Reach, and Mantra of Evasion with Hard Target instead of Conviction (I'd advice you to change that as well it will increase your survivability) and one where I use Deadly Reach with Keen Eye, and Sweeping Wind with Fire Storm for kiting. It really depended on how comfortable I felt with the champion packs.

It's hard to give advice because everyone has a different play style. For instance I tried your current build and hated it, in fact I tried about every viable build possible but always came back to the two I mentioned above. It just fit my play style.

[Deleted]

Sweeping Wind is our best damage ability. Too expensive? It's cheap considering how much damage it does. It also has great synergy with the Resolve passive.

Your HP are fine but your resistances are a tad low. I'm not sure about dual wield builds though as I went sword and board. I basically used two builds. One similar to yours but with Blinding Flash instead of Deadly Reach, and Mantra of Evasion with Hard Target instead of Conviction (I'd advice you to change that as well it will increase your survivability) and one where I use Deadly Reach with Keen Eye, and Sweeping Wind with Fire Storm for kiting. It really depended on how comfortable I felt with the champion packs.

It's hard to give advice because everyone has a different play style. For instance I tried your current build and hated it, in fact I tried about every viable build possible but always came back to the two I mentioned above. It just fit my play style.

I feel that Deadly Reach is what keeps me alive against certain packs; Electrifying (I can't even tank those, dafuq), Molten, Fire Chains, Frozen, Arcane Enchanted, etc.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 03:23 PM ----------

I cannot facetank any champion packs as it is now - even Electrifying is enough to eat through my 1.2k LoH. Therefore, I'm Serenity-kiting everything, nuking with Serenity and kiting with Deadly Reach when it's on cool down. If the pack is molten and/or firechains without Electrifying/Frozen/Plagued/Arcane Enchanted I find myself a corner and face tank in there.

Some packs I have to skip/bug. Example: those huge things that shield themselves once in a while. Encountered a Desecrator/AE pack of those, shouldn't be too hard. It was. I was being one-shot, so I had to find a door way they couldn't fit through and DR them through there.

I'd like not to have to kite as much. I'm guessing more a) damage or b) defenses is the way to go. I'm unsure what direction to go, however - full damage, low resists and no LoH - or having everything balanced (decent health, 600-800 Resil, 700-1k LoH, decent armor, 30k DPS).

Something I'm really unsure about is LoH - I really like that stat, and I'd like to keep some of it on my amulet (maybe work on getting Ouroborus or whatever it's called - doesn't it have good stats in addition to a nice chunk of LoH?) even if I'd have to sacrifice it from my weapons.
I've seen some streams of people with 50k DPS, no LoH, 300-400 resists, MoC Overawe - something I don't understand is HOW THEY DON'T DROP DOWN, having the same playstyle as me. Is Dexterity really that huge of a factor when it comes to defense?

[Firecrest]

Is Dexterity really that huge of a factor when it comes to defense?

Low Dex = Low Damage & Low Dodge


Edit for more constructive posting:
I still do not understand how people can be so neglectful of this stat. It just blows my mind. It's your MAIN stat! I have twice the Dex you do. I'm pushing 35k DPS and have about 18% more Dodge (that's without Evasion Mantra). And I probably paid half the amount of gold as you did for your crit build.

This is why I think the crit builds are so worthless. For the amount of gold you spend creating a barely passable crit set, I could create a full on base stat set that would carry you through Act 4 with your eyes closed.

2k Dex. 27k HP. 750 Resist. 1k LoH. 800 DPS. 16% Block. 3700 Block Amount. And that's on the safe side - you can do just fine with much less. 10-15 Mill and you're face rolling Act III. People's refusal to pay attention to their base stats... It truly baffles me.

Additionally, you're struggling with your survivability but have included ZERO survivability skills. Where's Evasion? Where's +Armor Rune on Deadly Reach? Where's the heal attached to your bubble? You're balls out offensive and that's just not going to cut it when you don't overgear the Act.

I really don't get it. You have 1000 Dex and no survivability and you're confused about why you're dying. Every one of these "what am I doing wrong with my monk?" threads are exactly the same. Give love to your base stats and they'll give you love in return. Neglect them and you die.

[Cairhiin]

What Firecrest says is true. Dexterity is amazing; its dodge, DPS and armour (Seize the Initiative) all in one.

[Deleted]

Low Dex = Low Damage & Low Dodge


Edit for more constructive posting:
I still do not understand how people can be so neglectful of this stat. It just blows my mind. It's your MAIN stat! I have twice the Dex you do. I'm pushing 30k DPS and have about 18% more Dodge (that's without Evasion Mantra). And I probably paid half the amount of gold as you did for your crit build.

This is why I think the crit builds are so worthless. For the amount of gold you spend creating a barely passable crit set, I could create a full on base stat set that would carry you through Act 4 with your eyes closed.

2k Dex. 27k HP. 750 Resist. 1k LoH. 800 DPS. 16% Block. 3700 Block Amount. And that's on the safe side - you can do just fine with much less. 10-15 Mill and you're face rolling Act III. People's refusal to pay attention to their base stats... It truly baffles me.

Additionally, you're struggling with your survivability but have included ZERO survivability skills. Where's Evasion? Where's +Armor Rune on Deadly Reach? Where's the heal attached to your bubble? You're balls out offensive and that's just not going to cut it when you don't overgear the Act.

I really don't get it. You have 1000 Dex and no survivability and you're confused about why you're dying. Every one of these "what am I doing wrong with my monk?" threads are exactly the same. Give love to your base stats and they'll give you love in return. Neglect them and you die.

You've got some things wrong. Crit build is THE RIGHT WAY to go - you only need the stat on a couple of pieces of gear and you have twice the effective damage than that of a non-crit build, spending the same. If I were to go a full defensive build, I would need to pay far more gold to make it viable - as it takes a lot to simply be able to tank stuff. Having high DPS and plowing through stuff, kiting once in a while allows me to do the content while spending less gold. Offense > defense.

Yes there's no doubt I'm neglecting Dexterity, and I'm going to fix that - but going full defensive and/or no-crit simply isn't optimal nor does it fit my playstyle.

[Firecrest]

You've got some things wrong. Crit build is THE RIGHT WAY to go

I respectfully disagree. Further, I have point out that you're the one who's currently struggling. My Basic Build blows through Act III with no deaths, no skips and no problems. I do admit, however, that my current gearing is a good deal better than the basic stats I'm suggesting are needed. Those guidelines, however, got me through my first Inferno clear with minimal deaths and few skipped packs.

you only need the stat on a couple of pieces of gear and you have twice the effective damage than that of a non-crit build, spending the same

This is patently false in three areas. First, even the writers of Crit Build guides will tell you that the build is an all or nothing proposition. Half-assing it is doomed to failure.

Second, Crit is figured into the DPS number on your character sheet. Not that I’m saying the DPS number is 100% accurate – it’s not. But the only thing you can be referring to when you say “effective damage” is cyclones. I wish we had combat logs so that I could prove to people that they’re not making up the 10k DPS their Crit Build is losing them from their randomly spawning and randomly directed cyclones. This seems ridiculously obvious to me, but some hard numbers would be greatly welcomed.

Lastly, coin for coin, a good Dex line will be valued much much lower than a good +Crit or +Crit damage line on a piece of gear. Dex is intentionally plentiful. Crit is not. Blizzard understands what so many people seem to have not figured out. Dex is good. You’re supposed to have tons of it. They made it this way on purpose. And that’s why Dex is everywhere and Crit stats are hard to find.

If I were to go a full defensive build, I would need to pay far more gold to make it viable - as it takes a lot to simply be able to tank stuff.

I must have been very unclear in my previous explanation. I do not advocate a Defensive Build. I advocate covering your basics. That means Dex/Vit/Resist. That means turning on a defensive ability or two if you’re getting pounded into the dirt by pretty much everything. If the difference between these two things is unclear, let me know and I’ll try to explain further. I’m not really sure how, but I’ll try.

Maybe an example? By taking Ascension (1 extra second of Bubble) over Peacefull Repose (7k heal), you’re saying that you think you are taking more than 7k damage per second. I sincerely hope that is not the case.

The gearset I propose is not expensive. Like I said, 10-15 million gold is sufficient enough to hit the benchmarks I posted earlier to comfortably clear Act III. To get a Crit build up and running is easily 5-10 times that.

Having high DPS and plowing through stuff, kiting once in a while allows me to do the content while spending less gold. Offense > defense.

This is true to a degree. But, again, I have to point out that you’re the one having the problems. The game is about balance and you’ve completely eschewed two key parts: Your main stat is crucially important, and you’re going to have to sacrifice some DPS for survivability when you undergear an Act.

Yes there's no doubt I'm neglecting Dexterity, and I'm going to fix that - but going full defensive and/or no-crit simply isn't optimal nor does it fit my playstyle.

Again, I do not advocate Defensive Builds. That said, if your goal is to comfortably clear Act III, a Basic Build is the cheaper, easier, simpler, more optimal way to do it.

The great part about a Basic Build is that it’s not really a build. It’s a base set of stats that you’re trying to get. This means that it can fit any playstyle. You can use any of the Spirit Generators and (besides Mantra X, Heal and Bubble that are in EVERY build) any other skills you want. I run with Crippling Wave, Life Ele and Sweeping Wind. My guildie uses Blind and two Spirit Generators. Both work fine.

Specific builds, like the Crit Build, are actually DEFINED by how they force you into a certain playstyle. That’s why it’s called the “Crit Build” and not the “Do Whatever You Want Build”.

[Deleted]

Cyclone definitely doubles (even more depending on the situation) effective damage. The gap between having SW up and not having it up is huge. Ask anyone running with Cyclones.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:33 PM ----------

I know Dex is important. I realise this now, and I'm going to work on bumping it up. But I will be going for both stats (dex, crit) as that seems and feels like the most optimal way to go.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:35 PM ----------

By taking Ascension over Peaceful Repose, I'm saying I heal for more than the PR heal does in that 1 extra second through LoH.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:36 PM ----------

Crit build isn't 5-10 times more expensive to get to the same level. Then nobody would be running it.

[Deleted]

By taking Ascension over Peaceful Repose, I'm saying I heal for more than the PR heal does in that 1 extra second through LoH.

Serenity almost never uses its full duration unless using it to avoid getting frozen.
If you use it to avoid bigger damage spikes - like you normally do - it almost always breaks instantly in act 3/4. Well, at least it does on me with my 35k HP.

If Serenity did not have a cap, I'd take ascension. With the cap, it is a wasted rune-slot imo.

[Firecrest]

Cyclone definitely doubles (even more depending on the situation) effective damage. The gap between having SW up and not having it up is huge. Ask anyone running with Cyclones.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:33 PM ----------

I know Dex is important. I realise this now, and I'm going to work on bumping it up. But I will be going for both stats (dex, crit) as that seems and feels like the most optimal way to go.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:35 PM ----------

By taking Ascension over Peaceful Repose, I'm saying I heal for more than the PR heal does in that 1 extra second through LoH.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:36 PM ----------

Crit build isn't 5-10 times more expensive to get to the same level. Then nobody would be running it.

Welp... Best of luck. When you get sick of dying, feel free to revisit.

[Deleted]

Welp... Best of luck. When you get sick of dying, feel free to revisit.

As an aside, your cyclone comment made me choke on my dinner irl. I know people say that all the time, but I'm not even jk. I had to get up and go get a glass of water before I could read the rest. That's what I get for slurping pasta and reading MMOC at the same time. -.-


Edit because I can't help it:
The time gained by healing for 7k when I bubble will keep me alive much longer than 1 second under any reasonable circumstance. This means more time attacking and more LoH. I know you found this defense of the extra second out there on the internet, but it really falls apart when you just think about it for a moment. When you push your bubble, you get one extra second. I get 7k life. The only question to ask is "will 7k life keep me alive for more than one second?"

If the answer to this is yes, then your "I use the LoH the second buys me" rebuttal is completely irrelevant - because 7k health buys me even MORE time to get LoH. Even if we overlook that faulty logic, there's no way your LoH is healing you for 7k per second. I mean, seriously, Just think about what you're typing there. Imagine the game if you were getting 7k+ life per second. Your survivability would be through the roof. There's a spreadsheet out there somewhere detailing the LoH coefficients per ability. You should see if you can find it and give it a read. I think you might be under the mistaken impression that you're actually getting your full LoH for each creature hit by your abilities. Such is not the case.

LoH definitely heals for a lot more than you think. I attack 2.8ish times per second with FoT: TC (has a ~50% atk speed bonus), and a ~250% modifier (as I understand it), AoE not included (!) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...HhkTjB5b0hZTkE). That's around 7k, no? (Might have miscalculated, but these numbers seem/feel about right - talking from experience). Again, this is excluding AoE - which increases it loads.

There's other factors than LoH as well - Life Steal, Health Orbs that may drop, Transcendence, etc.

I see where you're going though, and that the "I get healed > 7k in the 1 second anyway"-logic is somewhat faulty. I will definitely try out Peaceful Repose - however, I don't think I'll stick to it. I usually use Serenity to stand in Desecrator/AE/Molten/Plagued - 7k isn't going to keep me alive for a second, but Ascension will, giving me more uptime before I have to kite/reposition.

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It also seems you're suggesting that, because I opt to go with a crit build, I'm going to have a harder time than I would ignoring crit. Really? I know crit builds don't work when "half-assed" as you put it, but I don't think mine is. 35.5% (43% running with a shield) crit is quite respectable, seems to be about average ("source": various streams of people farming Act III).

I don't lose any other stats - some Dexterity (~100 at most), but that's all. What's costing me a lot of Dexterity is the fact that I'm going for dual resists on almost all pieces, and LoH on jewelry - which makes me wonder if I should just give that up and go Phys Res only and no LoH - that's, I guess, the only real question I have left.

[Vook]

I cleared Act 3 comfortably with a non-crit build, 1400 dex, 35k life, 900 LoH and 650 resist all. Shield is really mandatory unless you outgear the content.

[Deleted]

I cleared Act 3 comfortably with a non-crit build, 1400 dex, 35k life, 900 LoH and 650 resist all. Shield is really mandatory unless you outgear the content.

Armor, APS, DPS?

---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 02:20 AM ----------

Also, as an aside - where should I farm?
I usually do Watch Tower in Northern Highlands -> Festering -> that Graveyard thing, can't remember name -> Leoric's Manor -> Cursed Hold, and all 3 floors of Halls of Agony, then butcher.

That works, yeah? Or is getting 5 stacks only, then killing Butcher better? Or getting 5 stacks, killing The Warden, clearing floor 3 of Halls of Agony, then killing Butcher?

[Vook]

Armor, APS, DPS?

~70% armor with buffs up, 1.4 Attack speed, ~17k DPS. Elites took a while to kill, but were doable. Normal mobs were comfortably easy. Ghom was a bitch (but he's really insane for any melee unless you ridiculously outgear it), Cydea-whatever-her-name was easy, Azmodan was a pushover.

Oh, I also have a 16% string of ears, so that could be making up for a lot of defensive stats.

Really, all my problems were solved by an 850 dps socket fist with 300 LoH gem (star), and a 550 LoH amulet.

Looking at the stats in your picture...fuck, man. You should tear the shit out of Act 3 with those stats. 44% crit?? Jesus man! You should be facerolling elites with damage like that. Go with S&B and faceroll, 21k dps is more than enough.