CTC cap and stamina gems.

[soneriko]

well i was on 102.4% CTC cap and gemmed stamina before, and now i got stamina heroic trinket last night and now i need to work on my items again.
but now im just confused about tanking heroic spine, we got no problem till 3rd plate but when there is alot of ozes it gets messy for 2nd tendon.
at the moment without buffs, food, flask, i have 98.14 avoidance. so can someone just show me a way to work on my items for better? should i gem for 25 mastery and 37 stamina again or something else?

armory : please check Antaka prot paladin on neptulon EU , cant post link it says not allowed :/

[Deleted]

This is my first post here, hurray

You'll find that Soulshifter Vortex is quite horrible for a Tankadin (the proc is completely useless unless your under CTC cap, at which point you'll be way over for 20seconds every 2 minutes or so) unless you are aiming for Max Stamina. Alot of people with DS on farm are dropping the CTC cap, maxing Stamina and Hit/Expertise. If you have it, I'd recommend Spiderspilk Spindle HC instead, replacing the Green gem's in the ring & gloves with a Blue and grabbing a Souldrinker.

Would put you at 102.53% with Kings, Food & Shout. 238997HP down from 253053HP, but a bit more overall survivability.

Failing that, then if you want to maintain CTC cap, use some green and/or yellow gems to make up the cap.

[MerinPally]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntaka/advanced

Your armory.

Motorphetamine there are some problems with your post, I'll just post them below as that way this helps 2 people.

Soulshifter Vortex hc + Indomitable Pride hc = our BiS trinkets, for everything except maybe madness heroic where something like Stay of Execution is bloody awesome (check my maths posts on the paladin guide, I put up all the numbers )

As far as I've seen, no tank is dropping CTC cap. They are CTC before the Soulshifter proc and use it for th stamina alone. They may use Spidersilk spindle for madness but prior to that, the extra stamina is preferential as you can get CTC easily thorugh on-gear avoidance alone, so you can maintain more stamina this way, which is great for the spell damage and extra vengeance we can use to kill things faster ^^. They stick with Soulshifter + Indom.

@ the guy whos armory i linked

Use the 2 trinkets you are using and regem mastery tocover the CTC loss, as you will gain more overall stamina that way than using 1 stamina + 1 avoidance trinket. I wote a guide on this the other day, please take a look, and I updated the prot pala guide recently . You must be CTC, at all times. The only tanks who are not CTC are those who will wear their ret gear during a fight so that they get no1 on World of Logs rankings, For anything else they are CTC.

However, Motorphetamine makes a good point - get a souldrinker asap. They are fantastic things. The only reason you would use a Hand of Morchok would be because you haven't got a normal/heroic Souldrinker yet

Edited a second time so I sound more like someone you can ask for help and less like a drunken lout.

[Téuntjûh]

I think your question is answered with Merin's comment OP, +++ for Merin here

[Plwmar]

Same from me.Merin is right.Also I see your gemming is correct.Well a lot are dropping ctc cap to get hit/exp including me (since it IS 25% nerf...and it is going 30% if your healers are good to go then your dps would also help especially on madness).Spindle is good for eg morchok only (and perhaps madness though there if you have I would suggest stay of execution and indomitable pride for the impales or just go vortex and idt).CTC cap is helpful but not that much critical to maintain for the last fight at least but DO NOT drop it way down meaning below 10-15% under the cap.Soulshifter is bis due to the stamina.The mastery proc is entirely useless for our class,it will send you above the ctc cap for 20 secs but we really shouldnt rely on the proc to stay @ctc cap.Also it would help to use souldrinker instead of hand of morchok (I used it too myself it upgrades your dps output but souldrinker helps survivability

[MerinPally]

Hello, I'm awake, sober, and magically not hungover now. Sorry if my post was rather blunt but I'll be honest, I was not in the best of shape - one of my friends had to sit in a car to Devon this morning at 4am so we went out last night and I fed him Jagerbombs like no tomorrow, so I obviously bought them too >.<

I will edit my post now so that it is both legible and makes me sound like less of an asshole, thanks for the backup so that I know I can do some things correct whilst intoxicated. I normally stay away from the forums but when I see something incorrect on my beloved paladin forums I leap into the fray to save the day which doesn't really require any saving.

Well a lot are dropping ctc cap to get hit/exp including me (since it IS 25% nerf...and it is going 30% if your healers are good to go then your dps would also help especially on madness)

You're one of those people I would count amongst my "going for rankings" then to be honest, you already have your madness kills and loot from it, so you can afford to do that - OP is still 6/8heroic so needs all the help he can get for now at least, not because they are "bad" or anything stupid like that but because they haven't got the practice or the drill correct yet. What you have done is an option but it needs to be stressed that it is and option, and not the thing which has to be done.

On a side note, you have Hc Souldrinker and only 1/2 in Reckoning That second point would make your damage and self healing go WHOOSH.

[Lifire]

Ok there are some serious issues in this thread.

1. Soulshifter Vortex is NOT BiS not will it ever be. It is by far the worst trinket EU. Our BiS trinkets are on most fights:

- Fire of the Deep (VP)
- HC Indomitable Pride

However as variable trinkets come into play:

- Mirror of Broken Images (Yorsh/Warlord)
- Resolve of Undying (Spine)
- Stay of Execution (Hagara/Madness)

Soulshifter Vortex is an uncontrollable Mastery procc which is useless beyond the CTC cap. Even Scales of Life/Spidersilk Spindle is better.

Many people dislike HC Indomitable Pride as well due to it being able to procc of a tiny absorption shield incase you get pushed over 50% with a minuscule hit) and can use Spidersilk/any of the other mentioned trinkets.

Fire of the Deep is a controllable avoidance to avoid stacks/melee attacks which can be perfectly abused on every single fight.

2. Any Stamina stacking paladin without threat stats is (a) playing with very bad DPS (b) a useless tank. If you aren't Hit & Expertise capped then your are gimping yourself for various reasons:

- Prot DPS (Faster fights > less healing > more fun to do (50K burst as prot paladin though you need a specific Prot DPS gearset for that
- Threat aggro but if you play with the <99% quality DPS then you won't really every have a DPS outthreat you. If anyone comes back with "threat is not a issue, 500% buff lololol" then please review playing with actually good players who burst significant parsing amounts.
- Now, post Hit & Expertise cap you should aim for Stamina for survivability.

3. Enchants/Gems

- Why you don't have Landslide is beyond me. Windwalk is always shit. It falls in the same category as Soulshifter Vortex, an uncontrollable movement speed Dodge procc which is wasted whilst Landslide provides more DPS/Threat which is well useful during any procc uptime.
- Stamina on bracers is horrid. Get expertise to ease reforging for expertise.

EDIT: 4. Spec Build

Don't pick up Pursuit of Justice, that is useless. Get Lavawalker on boots instead and free up 2 points to pick up better Threat talents.

- Pursuit of Justice
- Improved Justice
- Guarded by the Light
+ 2/2 Halled Ground
+ 2/2 Eye for an Eye
+ 3/3 Rule of Law
+1 Judgements of the Pure (you can drop Vindication and put 2/2 here for max Prot DPS)

Wasting 3 HP on self-glories is beyond silly. Healers have no right to slack just as much as you need to tank. No fight has ever required me to go super survival mode unless it's hardcore progress or a Healer died etc. Dumping WOG's on peopel on spine for instance is very strong due to it going upwards to 60-85k crits where you can help people since you normally 2 heal.

--

Many wannabee tanks will came back at me talking about how this shit makes no sense, I tell you you need to play with the correct player quality and actually understand the value of DemoLock/Fury/Arms/FireMage/Combat burst especially on fights such as Morchock cleave. Secondly, why would you ever like the feeling of missing CS or SoR on your targets ?!

You can see my paladin parses on wow-heroes http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...lstrom/Lifire/ and if you are more interested in Prot DPS you can see my gear set i'm logged out in feel free to pm me. I obviously have a full Prot gearset for fights where I don't go for parses but some of the pieces are mixed in as I haven't had the luck to get double items for Strength and then Stamina gemming.

WTB CRECHE HC + HC Ret pieces for more #1's unfair!

[Gingerwookie]

I really hate seeing you post this same "advice" to the average player every time a thread like this pops up, Vifire. It just reads as you trying to flex your epeen and gloat about your oh so amazing guild.

[Lifire]

I am not gloating epeen. I am commenting on the BETTER build, the BETTER spec, the BETTER approach to improve the QUALITY of tanks for people who read it.

All this with valid reasoning and am open to questions concerned to even give more in depth approach. If you don't want to tank better then don't cry and whinge about constructive criticism. I dislike players who simply need to blindfold themselves and stare up against a wall because they dislike an actual post instead of someone writing irrelevant information which can be found in useless stickies.

Also, I treat him as a player. If I can do something of quality then so can everyone else who plays wow hence I treat him with the same capabilities.You calling him an average player is much more demeaning then my arrogant advice!

[MerinPally]

Oh look someone going for world rankings. Now back to most tanks and what most tanks do...

All your advice is completely and utterly useless to him because he is not 8/8 he is not farming gear and his guild is not a great guild. If you're going to offer advice, at least vary it to be relevent for different areas. Your advice is relevent for someone who has been 8/8 for ages with great gear who has the freedom to do this, however it is the worse advice ever for someone still progressing, which is what this thread is about.

He's not going for world rankings or attempting to kill a boss faster, all he wants is to make things easier for the first 6 on heroic and to get heroic spine down which is a cockblock for his guild.

If he wanted help on the best way to maximize his dps then sure you would have said something useful - unfortunately for you he didn't, making the entirety of your wall of text redundant. Also if you were oh so good you'd realise that to gem the 458 mastery from Fire of the Deep for you to get CTC again by using Soulshifter Vortex instead, costs about 600 stamina if you replace 75 stamina gems and all that jazz, so it's actually a stamina increase to use 2 stamina trinkets and gem the mastery - and the only 2 stamina trinkets good enough for this are soulshifter and indom, the rest result in a loss. You stack the stamina for the inevitable spell damage, you can live without the extra dodge easily.

You're the only paladin I ever see parading this as "the thing to do" everyone else merely suggests it for if you're really well geared and want to kill shit faster and pull huge numbers. The people who do that, aren't the ones who come to forums asking for help.

[Lifire]

Oh look someone going for world rankings. Now back to most tanks and what most tanks do...

All your advice is completely and utterly useless to him because he is not 8/8 he is not farming gear and his guild is not a great guild. If you're going to offer advice, at least vary it to be relevent for different areas. Your advice is relevent for someone who has been 8/8 for ages with great gear who has the freedom to do this, however it is the worse advice ever for someone still progressing, which is what this thread is about.

He's not going for world rankings or attempting to kill a boss faster, all he wants is to make things easier for the first 6 on heroic and to get heroic spine down which is a cockblock for his guild.

If he wanted help on the best way to maximize his dps then sure you would have said something useful - unfortunately for you he didn't, making the entirety of your wall of text redundant. Also if you were oh so good you'd realise that to gem the 458 mastery from Fire of the Deep for you to get CTC again by using Soulshifter Vortex instead, costs about 600 stamina if you replace 75 stamina gems and all that jazz, so it's actually a stamina increase to use 2 stamina trinkets and gem the mastery - and the only 2 stamina trinkets good enough for this are soulshifter and indom, the rest result in a loss. You stack the stamina for the inevitable spell damage, you can live without the extra dodge easily.

You're the only paladin I ever see parading this as "the thing to do" everyone else merely suggests it for if you're really well geared and want to kill shit faster and pull huge numbers. The people who do that, aren't the ones who come to forums asking for help.

You don't realise how good Fire of the Deep is for tanking Spine do you ? Have you ever touched that fight as a bloodadd tank ? Excess Stamina will not help the insane avoidance CD. Fire of the Deep is amongst the best trinkets in the current tier.

[MerinPally]

You don't realise how good Fire of the Deep is for tanking Spine do you ? Have you ever touched that fight as a bloodadd tank ? Excess Stamina will not help the insane avoidance CD. Fire of the Deep is amongst the best trinkets in the current tier.

Actually I have yes. And I'm aware of this. Hopefully he'd see some common sense and do things like that himself, otherwise he doesn't deserve the kill. However your advice to reforge to hit/expertise and regem strength and max out dps is worthless to him and then you go and state that every other tank is wrong.

Killing the bloods more will just make them spawn faster making everything worse. Therefore you don't realise how useless all your advice is. Not only is it 100% useless but you then stand there and tell pretty much every other paladin tank they are wrong - and why have you decided they're wrong? Because in your mind and to your guild, the best tank is the one that does the most dps. This is clearly complete bollocks to a guild that is struggling at 6/8hc with the 25% nerf.

Tailor your information to the thread rather than beating out the same generic response to each one. I was not giving him a complete overhaul list and telling him how to play, I just simply said "stick at CTC" therefore answering his question, and that his trinkets are fine - sure they could be better, but they are fine.

You can pick at me all you want for saying what I did about the trinkets and not specifying that Fire of the Deep is great for spine, but I'm not the one who came in blindly advocating a playstyle that is completely useless and meaningless for the post in question you decided to answer to.

[Lifire]

Actually I have yes. And I'm aware of this. Hopefully he'd see some common sense and do things like that himself, otherwise he doesn't deserve the kill. However your advice to reforge to hit/expertise and regem strength and max out dps is worthless to him and then you go and state that every other tank is wrong.

Killing the bloods more will just make them spawn faster making everything worse. Therefore you don't realise how useless all your advice is. Not only is it 100% useless but you then stand there and tell pretty much every other paladin tank they are wrong - and why have you decided they're wrong? Because in your mind and to your guild, the best tank is the one that does the most dps. This is clearly complete bollocks to a guild that is struggling at 6/8hc with the 25% nerf.

Tailor your information to the thread rather than beating out the same generic response to each one. I was not giving him a complete overhaul list and telling him how to play, I just simply said "stick at CTC" therefore answering his question, and that his trinkets are fine - sure they could be better, but they are fine.

You can pick at me all you want for saying what I did about the trinkets and not specifying that Fire of the Deep is great for spine, but I'm not the one who came in blindly advocating a playstyle that is completely useless and meaningless for the post in question you decided to answer to.

You are blatantly bullshitting.

I never recommended gemming strength for a Prot Gearset. Let me quote that for you you ignorant naïve player:

2. Any Stamina stacking paladin without threat stats is (a) playing with very bad DPS (b) a useless tank. If you aren't Hit & Expertise capped then your are gimping yourself for various reasons:

- Prot DPS (Faster fights > less healing > more fun to do (50K burst as prot paladin though you need a specific Prot DPS gearset for that
- Threat aggro but if you play with the <99% quality DPS then you won't really every have a DPS outthreat you. If anyone comes back with "threat is not a issue, 500% buff lololol" then please review playing with actually good players who burst significant parsing amounts.
- Now, post Hit & Expertise cap you should aim for Stamina for survivability.

Secondly, just because you are afraid to try a more innovative, creative and performanant playstyle is beyond my understanding for you to demean it. I mentioned about Fire in the Deep and that you did not even come across to mention him how to utilise that is utterly insane. Putting Soulshifter ahead Fire is simply playing bad. Now that I mentioned how viable and important as well how BIS that trinket is, you are "agreeing" with it. So you give him false or incomplete advice and then don't tell him what the best options are for spine even though that trinket makes a mind blowing difference.

My strength gearset is clearly built for parsing and is not a necessary set for any tank to have however easy the acquirement of gear is.

In my mind the best tank is not the one that does the most DPS, it's the one that understands how to perfectly threaten up and perform with output vs. survivability vs. mobility. The fact that you can push for more DPS as prot isn't useless but is not necessary because of a simple quote:

"if you can improve on something, why not do it" vs.

"not broken, don't fix it" <- which is the dumbest shit eu. Learn to optimise and learn from experiences.

I am not giving a generic answer to every thread. He asked for CTC advice and someone linked his armory and improving anything within the spec and playstyle will automatically affect his Spine HC performance.

Who are you to decide ? Some useless paladin who will run around telling people "CTC Cap and um Stamina with bad trinket cos pro?" No. How you think his spec is even close to flawless for current DS is beyond my understanding.

Plus, he asked for advice and I saw misinformation given out in the thread. I provided my information for the OP so I would gladly like to see him complaining about tips and advice of a player of my calibre vs. someone who didn't back up concrete improvements and forgot to mention fundamental playstyle/gear and spec improvements ? If he thinks my information was wrong, it's up to him not to use it, not you. If you need some help playing a protection paladin I would gladly help since you seem to be convinced you are the best at being a generic meatshield with no threat. Join some decent player group of average/above average and then get carried by Tricks/Misdirects all day long instead of actually creatively pushing for aggro which is much more interesting and actually makes you tank better which in result: less tank issues in Azeroth.

[MerinPally]

Yeah I can't argue with someone who is not prepared to see both sides of the argument.

The guy needs maximum survivability and you are advocating going for hit and expertise still.

I'm not saying and I have never said "don't be creative" but he is at no stage to be creative, he needs all the survivability he can get, which means as much health as he can get once CTC, which means don't go for hit/experitse.

Now that I mentioned how viable and important as well how BIS that trinket is, you are "agreeing" with it. So you give him false or incomplete advice and then don't tell him what the best options are for spine even though that trinket makes a mind blowing difference.

Yeah don't misconstrue what I'm saying, what I clearly said was something that tanks have done since the dawn of time and that is change their trinkets dependent on the fight. For spine, Fire is fantastic, for the rest, Soulshifter and Indom are best in slot.

If I'm so wrong then please inform me why 99% of all other tanks doing this, who aren't in their parsing set, use this?

It's your word versus the world and you expect to be believed as the superior one and then begin getting irate by calling me ignorant and naive. You need to calm down, you're arguing about a trinket and a gearing style you are advocating and telling everyone they are wrong, and all I have done this entire thread is not once said that what you are doing is wrong, but to advocate it and say it is good for this guy, is wrong, because it would be an unwise step for him to take.

If you phrased your arguments in a less offensive manner and stopped making the impression of "no, every other tank in the world is wrong and I'm right and you're all fucking stupid for not listening to me" then maybe people would listen to you some more. I have not said that what you are doing is wrong, I have simply said (at least 3 times now) that suggesting that this guy do it, is wrong. He doesn't need extra threat or extra dps, he needs survivability and what you are suggesting decreases his survivability.

Edit:

Who are you to decide ? Some useless paladin who will run around telling people "CTC Cap and um Stamina with bad trinket cos pro?" No. How you think his spec is even close to flawless for current DS is beyond my understanding.

I've read through all my posts 3 times now and I don't see where I said his spec was correct, once. And I'm a useless paladin? What makes you any more qualified to make a judgement? Are you the worlds best paladin? Play the progress card if you really want I don't care that much, I've just returned from a 5 month break. Sure I didn't clear the content as fast but that does not have any impact on the understanding of the numbers or mechanics.

Say I'm useless if you want, petty insults do nothing, but when it comes to "do what this guy says or do what everyone else and the maths says" then I'll go with the maths. To you, the best tank does huge dps - to others (and in this situation) that does not make the best tank.

[Malthanis]

@Vifire:
I see Merin posting numbers (on a regular basis, throughout this subforum), and I see you posting "do it this way" with no backing numbers or theory. Also, drop the antagonistic tone in your posts. It's not necessary or helpful to the conversation.

Wasting 3 HP on self-glories is beyond silly. Healers have no right to slack just as much as you need to tank. No fight has ever required me to go super survival mode unless it's hardcore progress or a Healer died etc. Dumping WOG's on peopel on spine for instance is very strong due to it going upwards to 60-85k crits where you can help people since you normally 2 heal.

Also, I truly don't understand this. What is so wrong with healing yourself that people advocate dropping one of our best active mitigation talents?

[Deleted]

As I have recently gotten my first kill and tanked/kited bloods on Spine HC I would advice using fire of the deep for the dodge on use plus scales of life for a combined heal with WoG. A warlock stunning the adds greatly helped me I can say plus my holy wrath used on cd, remember to walk backwards while kiting them (as you can still outrun them) plus you will block/dodge/parry their attacks. When I reach plate I always use a survival cd(holy shield is enough most of the time)/wog(+scales of life if out of cd) and when I'm completely at the back I holy wrath the bloods.

You should stick to Ctc as MerinPally said and not listen to Vifire, I have low expertise/hit and threat was never an issue plus his advice is for players who have 8/8 HC on farm and it's just b/s in my opinion because he thinks every other tank is wrong. So listen to what Merin said and not Vifire much, he looks like a guy who wants to show off his dps as prot and his guild. After you reach 8/8 farm and you find tanking all HC bosses easy you can think about maximizing your dps to help speed up the runs.
Other than that good luck!

[Lifire]

"All other tanks?" You mean all tanks that don't know how bad Soulshifter is ? I have talked and played with many Paladins and everyone understands how shit that trinket is for tanking.

I advocated a threat approach and it's better on spine for him. He said bloods are going out of control in terms of him not holding aggro on all the spawning bloods. Hit and Expertise play a role and can help him pick them up more efficiently versus DPS and healers outthreatening him when they DPS/Heal.

How can you give Spine advice and not talk about Fire? Soulshifter is not BIS. Currently all tanks who know how to play are using IndomPride+Deep with 4-5 backup trinkets: Tolbarad, Stay, Resolve and many strength trinkets for DPS contribution

My playstyle would make him a better and challenged tank instead of a worse meatshield to only die 6 seconds after then he is currently. My theory is simple: Either become a better meatshield (your theory) and die only a fraction of seconds later and eat more mana getting topped or become a better threat machine and 1. Jump around to pick up all bloods + 2. Consistently kill them over the course of the fight to aid in all residue soaking which leads to better blood management and closer to a kill.

It's up to the OP to go for becoming some boring ass shit tank who will be troublesome for everyone around him, won't be holding threat and will be needing Tricks/MD on cd or to be a quality tank who understands the value of survivability vs. mobility vs. threat output. Plus again, more dps on tendons => shorter fights => more residue die from tank dps => better consistent sustainable damage and residue soaking => more threat => no loss to aggro on ranged and healers => shorter fights & smoother => spine kill.

You have again, no valid point to denounce my actual performance approach to tanking whereas the OP would ultimately play better


OP just digest the important information and utilise it to help yourself. GOOD LUCK

---------- Post added 2012-07-13 at 03:20 PM ----------

As I have recently gotten my first kill and tanked/kited bloods on Spine HC I would advice using fire of the deep for the dodge on use plus scales of life for a combined heal with WoG. A warlock stunning the adds greatly helped me I can say plus my holy wrath used on cd, remember to walk backwards while kiting them (as you can still outrun them) plus you will block/dodge/parry their attacks. When I reach plate I always use a survival cd(holy shield is enough most of the time)/wog(+scales of life if out of cd) and when I'm completely at the back I holy wrath the bloods.

You should stick to Ctc as MerinPally said and not listen to Vifire, I have low expertise/hit and threat was never an issue plus his advice is for players who have 8/8 HC on farm and it's just b/s in my opinion because he thinks every other tank is wrong. So listen to what Merin said and not Vifire much, he looks like a guy who wants to show off his dps as prot and his guild. After you reach 8/8 farm and you find tanking all HC bosses easy you can think about maximizing your dps to help speed up the runs.
Other than that good luck!

Please I don't need to showoff my DPS and guild. I just propose a theory for OP'ers to digest if wanted or to slip by if not.

I don't say do this or that without reasoning nor have I ever had the necessity to say: I am right because I have top 5 ranks. I provide valid reasons the simplest being play with top10 DPS or even people who like to DPS hard which is required for DS and then start losing threat to those to then tell me how it feels not seing 6 misses in a row when you could have performed better.

I'm going to stick with a) tanks who get carried by bad DPS and Misdirects/Tricks and then b) tanks who try hard, play hard, perform well

[Deleted]

"All other tanks?" You mean all tanks that don't know how bad Soulshifter is ? I have talked and played with many Paladins and everyone understands how shit that trinket is for tanking.

I advocated a threat approach and it's better on spine for him. He said bloods are going out of control in terms of him not holding aggro on all the spawning bloods. Hit and Expertise play a role and can help him pick them up more efficiently versus DPS and healers outthreatening him when they DPS/Heal.

How can you give Spine advice and not talk about Fire? Soulshifter is not BIS. Currently all tanks who know how to play are using IndomPride+Deep with 4-5 backup trinkets: Tolbarad, Stay, Resolve and many strength trinkets for DPS contribution

My playstyle would make him a better and challenged tank instead of a worse meatshield to only die 6 seconds after then he is currently. My theory is simple: Either become a better meatshield (your theory) and die only a fraction of seconds later and eat more mana getting topped or become a better threat machine and 1. Jump around to pick up all bloods + 2. Consistently kill them over the course of the fight to aid in all residue soaking which leads to better blood management and closer to a kill.

It's up to the OP to go for becoming some boring ass shit tank who will be troublesome for everyone around him, won't be holding threat and will be needing Tricks/MD on cd or to be a quality tank who understands the value of survivability vs. mobility vs. threat output. Plus again, more dps on tendons => shorter fights => more residue die from tank dps => better consistent sustainable damage and residue soaking => more threat => no loss to aggro on ranged and healers => shorter fights & smoother => spine kill.

You have again, no valid point to denounce my actual performance approach to tanking whereas the OP would ultimately play better


OP just digest the important information and utilise it to help yourself. GOOD LUCK

---------- Post added 2012-07-13 at 03:20 PM ----------



Please I don't need to showoff my DPS and guild. I just propose a theory for OP'ers to digest if wanted or to slip by if not.

I don't say do this or that without reasoning nor have I ever had the necessity to say: I am right because I have top 5 ranks. I provide valid reasons the simplest being play with top10 DPS or even people who like to DPS hard which is required for DS and then start losing threat to those to then tell me how it feels not seing 6 misses in a row when you could have performed better.

I'm going to stick with a) tanks who get carried by bad DPS and Misdirects/Tricks and then b) tanks who try hard, play hard, perform well

I try hard, play hard and perform well in my opinion, I just checked your tank's armory and if you seriously think that a tank with your ctc could go on a progress run spine hc even with 25% nerf and perform well then you are wrong, I can't understand how you even did 8/8 hc pre-nerf (if your sig is right) when you can't understand that the bloods will make short work of you without blocking most of their attacks or dodging them(on a progress run that is). I never miss 6 times in a row or anything and even when I happen to lose aggro (only to other tank because of vengeance) I can quickly hit righteous defense and problem is solved, if you want big threat at start you just have to hit DP + AW + SotR at start and you got the aggro for sure. My healers don't have a problem healing me and until now I never had tanking problems the way I build my specc/gear. And btw, Lazeil had 394 ilvl gear at the time paragon got world 5th and almost no hit/exp. Here is his armory if you don't believe http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...azeil/advanced so are you saying he is wrong? Do you think he held back his guild because he didn't pursue threat stats or that he is carried? Got to be the best joke I ever heard, and he is not the only one of the tanks that killed 8/8 hc with so weak gear because of the race, he was just the first that came in my mind. That show us that in progress you can't pursue threat generation. If there is low dps then it's your guild's DPSERS FAULT, not yours as a tank, they should learn how to do more dps, your job is to tank everything and survive.

Your way to maximize dps may be good and grats for being able to to tank HC in such an awful gear stressing your healers much more than you should but don't tell me you tanked HC progress with such gear. That will be the second best joke ever (only seconded from the above one).

Anyway I'm not here to fight about what is right and what is wrong, every players prefers his own way of play, I can accept it, but when it's obviously bad advice for a raider that he is still progressing then I highlight it. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents and support Meripally.

[Lifire]

Did you not read? I don't tank in my armory gearset. That is only for parsing fights so all t11/t12 and Morchock/Ultraxion. I use a proper ctc/threat cap+ stamina gearset for tanking spine etc lol

It's obvious the gear set in my armory is so o0. I tanked it prenerf in horrid gear as well, it required pure performance which I delivered. I was running semi threat set for tank dps on spine tendons

[Malthanis]

a) tanks who get carried by bad DPS and Misdirects/Tricks

How is it possible to be carried by bad DPS in any situation? Normally, the 'bad' players are the ones getting carried. Also, what's wrong with Misdirect and Tricks of the Trade? They're tools that exist to be used, not disdained. Also, considering your theory, I would think that you would like Tricks for the damage buff it gives.

b) tanks who try hard, play hard, perform well

And what if their 'try hard, play hard, perform well' is in the form of reducing their overall damage taken? Or what if it's in making their healer's jobs easier? You could also argue that those two things are more important than your goal of DPS, since the job of a tank is to take the brunt of the attacks.

You're oversimplifying all of this to your own personal scope of the game.