I think this might stop the 10 vs 25man feud.

[Dairyking101]

Here is my suggestion. What if we had to separate server firsts? One for 10man and one for 25man? So no one can really argue that 25man is to blah blah or the 25 mans cant be like blah blah about 10mans.
This is coming from a guy that lost Server first to a 10man guild D=

[artem123]

it wouldn't stop anything since people would still say oh thats easier. and so forth

[Vanamman]

That is only part of the problem. The other part is that some fights are easier on 10 man and some on 25 man. The only way to stop this debate is to make them equally difficult which is basically impossible

[Tyriss]

So a 25man could take server 1st 25man achieve and then follow up with server 1st 10man achieve the next week if the competition wasn't that high ?

The only thing that ''solve'' the 10vs25 man problem is 15man.

[Darnassian]

Bring back separate lockouts, just give 25 man raids a lower ilvl than 10s. Why? Because you can't 9 man an unnerfed hardmode 10 but you can 20 man an unnerfed 25 man hardmode, because 10s only have one brez and drop 2 items while 25s have 3 brezzes and drop 4 items, 25 mans are easier to cheese just about every fight with plus you are never short of buffs, even with people dead, 10s in some cases *needed* class stacking just to get by something before outgearing it. 25s have a lot more room for error, and while there are more variable for errors, most things these days don't have heavy individual performance weighing into them. Perhaps if they made fights as individually demanding as Archimonde was, 25s can be considered "harder" again.

Do not Flame bait / troll -Azshira

[Vargur]

The only solution is separate achievements, IDs and better gear for 25 man, since it's generally harder and more morally rewarding from all points of view.

[Dairyking101]

So a 25man could take server 1st 25man achieve and then follow up with server 1st 10man achieve the next week if the competition wasn't that high ?

The only thing that ''solve'' the 10vs25 man problem is 15man.

Maybe if the guild already have a server first (ie 25) they then couldnt get the 10man *not hard to do really*

[Fmp]

Bring back separate lockouts, just give 25 man raids a lower ilvl than 10s. Why? Because you can't 9 man an unnerfed hardmode 10 but you can 20 man an unnerfed 25 man hardmode, because 10s only have one brez and drop 2 items while 25s have 3 brezzes and drop 4 items, 25 mans are easier to cheese just about every fight with plus you are never short of buffs, even with people dead, 10s in some cases *needed* class stacking just to get by something before outgearing it. 25s have a lot more room for error, and while there are more variable for errors, most things these days don't have heavy individual performance weighing into them. Perhaps if they made fights as individually demanding as Archimonde was, 25s can be considered "harder" again.

Haha, thanks for the laugh, this just made my day

[RandomAustralian]

So a 25man could take server 1st 25man achieve and then follow up with server 1st 10man achieve the next week if the competition wasn't that high ?

The only thing that ''solve'' the 10vs25 man problem is 15man.

I'd like a 17.5 player mode. Where goblins or gnomes count as 0.5 people, that should make it interesting, and is also the middle ground between 10/25 :P

[Deleted]

Seperate Realm Firsts and different achievements, would reduce the "heat".

It would not solve the problem though.
The "Rift" is too deep for those that activelly support the one size or the other, with the large majority of the raiding player base in the middle, going for the size/team that will offer the best package, according to their priorities, that little have to do with the size.

[Seriss]

Here is my suggestion. What if we had to separate server firsts? One for 10man and one for 25man? So no one can really argue that 25man is to blah blah or the 25 mans cant be like blah blah about 10mans.
This is coming from a guy that lost Server first to a 10man guild D=

I've been saying this for ages, but Blizzard seems to disagree for reasons that they don't tell us.

[Deleted]

I'd like a 17.5 player mode. Where goblins or gnomes count as 0.5 people, that should make it interesting, and is also the middle ground between 10/25 :P

You 're not funny.
And you know that the guy is right.
When you have a system that offers the "pretence of a choice" for 80%+ of the raiding playerbase, then there is no reason to continue it.

15 people raids, have been suggested several times, and their popularity is indisputable.

[Adimaru]

Seperate Lockout, end of story in my opinion Everything was fine in my opnion before Cata raidcomp wise. Just find a solution to the gear and World 1st Problem. Try balance between 10's and 25's better then now so people can't QQ about stuff being easier or harder

This comming from someone who always raided 25's

[daftone]

I'd like a 17.5 player mode. Where goblins or gnomes count as 0.5 people, that should make it interesting, and is also the middle ground between 10/25 :P

So if we brought all gnomes could we take 35 people in since they only count for .5?

[Adimaru]

So if we brought all gnomes could we take 35 people in since they only count for .5?

Would be fucked up tbh x) Let's bring back 40 mans!

[RandomAustralian]

So if we brought all gnomes could we take 35 people in since they only count for .5?

Yes but everyone knows gnomes only do half the dps! and Archidamos, lighten up son, I was just joking...I do believe that 15 mans are the way to go, I wasn't taking a jab at the guy. Please calm down.

[Deleted]

Yes but everyone knows gnomes only do half the dps! and Archidamos, lighten up son, I was just joking...I do believe that 15 mans are the way to go, I wasn't taking a jab at the guy. Please calm down.

When thousands of people see smt that they liked doing, collapsing, and in a subject that is about this particular issue, someone pulls the 17,5 gnomes & goblins joke, soz but they cant apreciate it.
They would actually expect to see ways to adress the problem, reduce the problem, or ideas about an appealing fresh start to bypass the problem.

I am glad you got serious on your reply, even though your tone when serious is not funny either.

[Chunkyman]

Bring back separate lockouts, just give 25 man raids a lower ilvl than 10s. Why? Because you can't 9 man an unnerfed hardmode 10 but you can 20 man an unnerfed 25 man hardmode, because 10s only have one brez and drop 2 items while 25s have 3 brezzes and drop 4 items, 25 mans are easier to cheese just about every fight with plus you are never short of buffs, even with people dead, 10s in some cases *needed* class stacking just to get by something before outgearing it. 25s have a lot more room for error, and while there are more variable for errors, most things these days don't have heavy individual performance weighing into them. Perhaps if they made fights as individually demanding as Archimonde was, 25s can be considered "harder" again.

25 man is harder, by a huge margin..

I'm sorry but come on give facts, also your second post is garbage also. Constructive post or don't. It offends people. -Azshira

[Deleted]

25 man is harder, by a huge margin..

Depends on the fight.

But there's less room for error in a 10 man raid, it's simple logic really.

[vian]

The other part is that some fights are easier on 10 man and some on 25 man. The only way to stop this debate is to make them equally difficult which is basically impossible

This, and this alone. Once people get this in their tiny shrunken heads, the discussion is over.