Your ideas on prisons?

[Zhinkis]

I’d like people to fear prison so much that they will actually stop and think about what they are doing before they commit a crime. It would probably be ruled as cruel and unusual, but imagine a prison where your cell was not tall enough to stand up in, not long enough to lay down in, and only a inches wider than your shoulders, and the walls were slanted at an angle so you were perpetually standing and couldn't bend down to sit/lay. No windows; just an overhead light that was turned on 24 hours a day, a drain the floor so the cleaning system could wash your waste down the drain the floor, and the room was completely sound proof. People would absolutely fear the possibility of winding up in there.

So... start up auschwitz again but throw in criminals instead of jews?....

[Vargur]

Prisons and the punishment of crime often come up in this forum and are often criticized.
So I'd like to ask all of you what and how you think prisons (and punishment of crime in general) should be?

I'd also like to know which people should get in, and how they should come out. In effect, the purpose of prison.

Trust me, having inmates interact between each other in an enclosed environment is the utmost punishment; so perhaps, a cryogenic state would be ideal. Maybe with (SciFi) neurological reconditioning, if the inmate so chooses.

[Deleted]

Btw, if you want to see how to run an effective prison, look up the Rusian prison called Black dolphin now thats discipline and order inforced... harshly

[Deleted]

Trust me, having inmates interact between each other in an enclosed environment is the utmost punishment; so perhaps, a cryogenic state would be ideal. Maybe with (SciFi) neurological reconditioning, if the inmate so chooses.

Would they learn to knit while they sleep?

[derpkitteh]

for me, there would be no prison. either dead or enslaved, depending on the crime. there would be certain deaths for each death penalty crime, gang members, murderers, rapists and other trash in that group would face torturous deaths, extremely painful and public. they could also be used for human experimentation, since they're of no use for anything else. for very minor things there would be torture for a set amount of days.

[Drakain]

I'm sorry, but your notion is simply wrong. Prison IS NOT a deterrent, for the simple fact that people committing the crimes don't think they will ever be caught.

Prison is a deterrent to some people. Criminally minded people don't always perceive risk the same way non-criminally minded people do. However, criminals who are actually aware of the range of punishment do tailor their behavior to minimize risk sometimes. It's not uncommon for a savvy criminal to use fake guns, or avoid using guns at all, because they're aware of the punishment enhancements that occur when you use a deadly weapon, for instances.

The fact is prison is designed to both punish and reform. The problem arises that it's very difficult to identify what criminals are high recidivist risks and, frankly, some crimes are so heinous that the consequences are just even if reformation is a non-issue.

[smelltheglove]

Also, it’s not just a small, uncomfortable box. Prisons like I suggested have existed before (without the technology, you could just stand in your feces then,) and they were universally feared. I’m not saying they would be effective at rehabilitation or anything of the sort, I’m just saying I’d like to see a prison people feared.

you know that a substantial percentage would be far more dangerous coming out than they went in, right?

[Kalis]

Because the death penalty really isn't a deterrent. You're going to sit on death row for a long time, maybe 20+ years, and then die. For some people, prison is a better life than they had before they went inside. Access to health care, regular food (even if the quality is terrible, it's regular) some creature comforts. Some people (although certainly not the majority) become repeat offenders because they prefer being in prison over having to function in society. I don’t think I agree with studies that show prison isn’t a deterrent, because people aren’t afraid of prison. They are afraid of the people who are inside the prison, which, if you aren’t afraid of them to begin with, why would prison scare you?

Also, it’s not just a small, uncomfortable box. Prisons like I suggested have existed before (without the technology, you could just stand in your feces then,) and they were universally feared. I’m not saying they would be effective at rehabilitation or anything of the sort, I’m just saying I’d like to see a prison people feared.

100 odd years ago, London prison were notorious for their brutality and appaling conditions...didn't stop them being full though.

[Tinykong]

I'm sorry, but your notion is simply wrong. Prison IS NOT a deterrent, for the simple fact that people committing the crimes don't think they will ever be caught.

Why does it have to be a deterrent? I'd just like people to fear prison, rather than be ambiguous about it.

you know that a substantial percentage would be far more dangerous coming out than they went in, right?

I wouldn't suggest putting everyone into that type of prison.

[Beavis]

Because the death penalty really isn't a deterrent. You're going to sit on death row for a long time, maybe 20+ years, and then die. For some people, prison is a better life than they had before they went inside. Access to health care, regular food (even if the quality is terrible, it's regular) some creature comforts. Some people (although certainly not the majority) become repeat offenders because they prefer being in prison over having to function in society. I don’t think I agree with studies that show prison isn’t a deterrent, because people aren’t afraid of prison. They are afraid of the people who are inside the prison, which, if you aren’t afraid of them to begin with, why would prison scare you?

Also, it’s not just a small, uncomfortable box. Prisons like I suggested have existed before (without the technology, you could just stand in your feces then,) and they were universally feared. I’m not saying they would be effective at rehabilitation or anything of the sort, I’m just saying I’d like to see a prison people feared.

Did people still end up in those prisons? If they did, they either didn't know they existed, didn't think they would get caught, or weren't bothered by the prospect of going to that prison. So, unless it was an information problem, then the deterrence value of that sort of thing is questionable.

[Ynna]

Trust me, having inmates interact between each other in an enclosed environment is the utmost punishment; so perhaps, a cryogenic state would be ideal. Maybe with (SciFi) neurological reconditioning, if the inmate so chooses.

So, prison only needs to take the offenders out of the society?

for me, there would be no prison. either dead or enslaved, depending on the crime. there would be certain deaths for each death penalty crime, gang members, murderers, rapists and other trash in that group would face torturous deaths, extremely painful and public. they could also be used for human experimentation, since they're of no use for anything else. for very minor things there would be torture for a set amount of days.

So as soon as someone breaks the social contract, they lose their human rights? Not to mention that things that are currently a criminal offense might not be in the future. And how will you fix judicial errors?

100 odd years ago, London prison were notorious for their brutality and appalling conditions...didn't stop them being full though.

Prisons tend to be always full, no matter how much room they have. It's this weird thing.

[Kalis]

Did people still end up in those prisons? If they did, they either didn't know they existed, didn't think they would get caught, or weren't bothered by the prospect of going to that prison. So, unless it was an information problem, then the deterrence value of that sort of thing is questionable.

Indeed, we even used to go so far as to send our undesirables to Australia and even that horrific threat failed to deter them.

[Tinykong]

Did people still end up in those prisons? If they did, they either didn't know they existed, didn't think they would get caught, or weren't bothered by the prospect of going to that prison. So, unless it was an information problem, then the deterrence value of that sort of thing is questionable.

Everyone knows prisons exist, some people just simply aren't scared by the prospect of prison and commit crimes anyway because the reward outweighs the risk, in thier minds. Not everyone who commits crimes thinks they are going to get away with it, at least some percentage knows the risk and chooses to ignore it.

[muto]

A lot of crimes that carry lengthy sentences (mostly "life crimes") are often spur of the moment-things. There's a difference between a man killing his wife in a moment of fury and someone who kills someone with careful planning for personal gain.



Forced labor is forbidden by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

No there's not, and that makes me sick just hearing that.

[Purlina]

Would they learn to knit while they sleep?

Half of them would learn how to knit, the other half would learn how to become more effective killers / criminals!

[galaxiah]

Bring back public hangings? Idk?
I think its stupid the amount of money we spend on worthless people. Those being the murderers, rapists, child molesting people who consciously made the decision to hurt or kill another living being. Hell animal abusers get off too easily, but thats a whole other discussion.

Throw them all into a barren wasteland for all I care. Or better yet lets create some type of hunger games.

[Beavis]

Everyone knows prisons exist, some people just simply aren't scared by the prospect of prison and commit crimes anyway because the reward outweighs the risk, in thier minds. Not everyone who commits crimes thinks they are going to get away with it, at least some percentage knows the risk and chooses to ignore it.

If we agree that horrific prisons don't deter crime, then what is the point of having them? Punishment? If we're going to go that route, why not just chop off people's hands in the town square and be done with it?

[caractacus]

I’d like people to fear prison so much that they will actually stop and think about what they are doing before they commit a crime. It would probably be ruled as cruel and unusual, but imagine a prison where your cell was not tall enough to stand up in, not long enough to lay down in, and only a inches wider than your shoulders, and the walls were slanted at an angle so you were perpetually standing and couldn't bend down to sit/lay. No windows; just an overhead light that was turned on 24 hours a day, a drain the floor so the cleaning system could wash your waste down the drain the floor, and the room was completely sound proof. People would absolutely fear the possibility of winding up in there.

Firstly this is deeply wrong because you cannot account for how many wrongly accused people it would impact on, dare say you could be one yourself.

Secondly if you do this to people the majority are going to either go insane or fill up with so much hatred that when they come out they will commit even worse crimes than they originally committed and they will do anything to avoid going back which would make them very dangerous indeed.

[Tinykong]

If we agree that horrific prisons don't deter crime, then what is the point of having them? Punishment? If we're going to go that route, why not just chop off people's hands in the town square and be done with it?

They aren't going to be a deterrent to some people, but they might be to others. There are no truly scary prisons in operationg in the United States, so saying that the current ones don't deter crime doesn't translate to what my hypothetical prison might do.

Chopping off someone's hands is immediate, spending the rest of their life in a torturous cell is a lot worse. Say what you want about my character and morals, but I wouldn't be opposed to that type of punishment for certain offenders.

[Purlina]

They aren't going to be a deterrent to some people, but they might be to others. There are no truly scary prisons in operationg in the United States, so saying that the current ones don't deter crime doesn't translate to what my hypothetical prison might do.

Chopping off someone's hands is immediate, spending the rest of their life in a torturous cell is a lot worse. Say what you want about my character and morals, but I wouldn't be opposed to that type of punishment for certain offenders.

And how do we compensate people who are later found innocent that already had their hands chopped off?