Calling targets in RBGs

[Malgru]

Hey all, been pushing my RBG rating lately and now it's being required that I call targets as a DK. Now, I can do this perfectly fine - but I often wonder if I'm calling the right targets (at 2k-2.2k rating). Usually DKs are my first priority, then shadowpriests with no disperse and mages with no ice block. But sometimes I call targets just based on if they're overextending - is that a good way to do it? Usually I don't bother with overextended pallies/rogues/mages (unless no blink)/warlocks (bubble, cloak/vanish, port, etc), but should I? Should I ever get on healers? If so, when? How long should I wait before calling a new target? Sometimes it feels like the group isn't listening to the targets being called as well. How would I go about fixing this? Thanks a bunch ^_^

[Deleted]

What you're doing sounds about right.
In our rbgs the switches are based on cooldowns up / cooldowns used / position of enemy players.
Or if they are just pushing out too much dmg or running with alot of pve items (these 2 usually go together ofc)

In my opinion its just important not to tunnel someone,
force someone's cds, switch and reswitch again after for the kill.

But probably the single most important thing about targetting in RBG is
WHEN THE TC CALLS A SWITCH, thn DAMNIT DPSERS SWIIITTTCHCHHH

You should practise on timed hardswitches, as in :
"guys, hardswitch on the boom in 5 sec"
"5"
"4"
"3"
"2"
"1"
TROLOLOL insta kill

works every time

[Tyrean]

When I call at the start of the game I identify the priority targets and communicate that to the group. Something like, first target will most likely be Boomkin X with a quick switch to DK Y, etc. Let's them know what I will be thinking about doing. Then when the game starts you have to play it by ear. You have to keep mental track of cooldowns, that DK just burned his AMS? I will call a switch to the most overextended player and say something like "DK AMS, switch rogue and back to DK in 6 secs" What happens there is the team switches off to multidotting, CC, the rogue, whatever. The DK gets healed up and then extends into the group and then since every had 5-6 seconds to prepare for the switch then he gets 6 people targeting him and he drops.

If you are just saying, "switch mage" then no, you are not going to get instant switches. Your rogue is probably on their disc trying to quelch mass dispels, your dot classes are multidotting, your tank is trying to control the people extended into your healers, etc. You will be the only person on your target a lot of the time because you are the only person who is just trying to kill people. That is also why you are most likely the target caller. What works is if you give your team a few seconds notice to finish what they are doing and also tell them why you are switching.

An example there, when you get into higher rating most people now how to PvP and know the cooldowns of all the classes. If I just call to switch on a mage, they will be individually thinking "why go on the mage, he will just block and we waste our time". If I say "gripping mage in 5 seconds for switch, no ice block" that communicates to them that I will be forcing his big defensive cooldown (blink) and he has no backup with block. i.e. they all know we can get a kill and the mage dies.

It is very dependent on you keeping track of cooldowns. That hpal just bubbled? Now he is a good switch target. That warlock has a portal out of position, he is a super good grip kill target. That DK burned his AMS to get a kill? He is a great grip kill target. That boomkin overextended to push in with starfall, forcing him into bearform suppresses all that starfall damage.

Also, don't be afraid to have your team just tunnel the shit out of a player. Often times kills on EFC come when you just tunnel the warrior and make him burn all his cooldowns. I will communicate to the team "shield wall burned keep on him", "stand burned keep on him", "PS burned almost there", etc. I will also call for bombs, if you let your rogue know that you plan on getting an early kill in a bomb to start and push a 10v9 then it works pretty well.

So you can't set a good priority because each class in RBGs now that dot cleaves are all the rage can top meters. If you lock down that fire mage, the boomkin will top. Lock down the boomy, the frost DK can top, etc. What you have to choose is classes that you can either suppress large amounts of damage or control, or get quick kills on because they are loaded up in PvE gear or have little to no defensive cooldowns. Also, be sure to call leaving healers. A living healer with no mana is far superior to a dead healer.

As for tracking cooldowns and such, I would recommend an addon like Atemi which you can customize to put cooldown icons over a player's nameplate so you can see what they have burned and what the cooldown on it is. Very useful if you are not good enough yet to see all the cooldowns being used across the fight.

[junn]

Are you playing dot cleave? I often see teams playing dot cleave, and then calling kill targets really early. The whole point of dot cleave is to do unhealable spread damage via dots, not to burst down people via hard swaps. IMO in a dot cleave you should call "spread damage" not a kill target. When targets start getting low, its a great time to throw a little bit of burst damage out. As the most common strat nowadays is to meet the other team head (flag maps in mid, gilneas at WW, AB at LM, eots at flag) you will usually have most of your team in any altercation.

I think as a DK or a rogue (the only two melee classes you typically see in a dot cleave) your job is to shut down the throughput of the disc priest (keep him from spamming mass dispel) and maybe another healer via DG, interrupt, strang, etc. If you can lock down the dpriest, its pretty much a free win as dots/combust/starfall will wipe out the whole team through any amount of heals if they arent quickly dispelled.

Warlock is also a good lockdown target. If they cant get out UA your side can spam dispels all day long.

[Yvaelle]

If you are a DK on a dot cleave team, then the kill target is whatever you are on (because of Necrotic Stacks) - so you need to call what you have stacks on - but the rest of the time your team needs to multi-dot (like Junn pointed out) - calling swaps too soon or too often can be a problem in this type of comp. If you are not playing a dot cleave comp however, then you need to be calling fast swaps based on cooldowns every ~10 seconds or so (comps using frost mages or rets or rogues). I'm the target caller when I RBG, but the most important thing for calling swaps is to know your target is set up properly before you call it.

As a shadowpriest, that means dispelling all their buffs, getting my empowered dots rolling on them, and preferably having a triple orb mind blast built up - when I have all that set up - all I need is 1-2 people to throw burst when I say and someone dies (it helps if I silence enemy hpallies to stop bubbles right before the kill for example). We have used a DK who was also a target caller before as well however, and we had mixed results (because we were both target calling, which took some getting used to). So I guess I'm saying - the onus is on you the target caller to set up the kills, and sometimes no one is going to swap with you - the best way to prevent that from happening is to give good warning, but also to not call too often.

If you are doing it right, position (or lack of good position) is more important than what kind of cooldowns they have to prevent it - with the right setup we've dropped full health flag carriers in the midst of four healers, with no stacks, in a single smoke bomb reliably (albeit that night we were playing the hilariously fun dps comp: shadow/shadow/frost mage/frost mage/sub rogue/sub rogue). But, it's all about setup and enemy position.

Edit: also you're probably aware of this, but as a DK who is often on the line or over-extended, I'd recommend going as resil heavy as possible and intentionally over-extending sometimes to draw attention away from your teammates - if your comfortable TC'ing your probably pretty situationally aware - and when you can goad them into bursting you and then botching their swaps - that's just as if not more important than good TC'ing on your part.

[Malgru]

Thanks for your input thus far, and yes I'm playing DoTcleave. Usually running prot warr, 2x hpal, disc priest, frost dk, 2x boomkin, fire mage, warlock, rogue. Sometimes we swap out one of the boomkins for a shadow priest. I'm running with a heroic gurth at 4735 resil, should I be gemming for more resil do you think? I'm not usually targeted to be honest, I'm usually the last to die in a team fight for whatever reason.

[junn]

That is good advice. Of course my advice is solely based on dot cleave, as my main is a lock. I think SkillOverKill's comment about getting into full resil and blade barrier as a DK is important too, as outside of AMS frost is a free kill.

Actuall, that brings up a good point that I was discussing the other night. On a dot cleave team, UH is perfectly viable. As you are locking down dpriest, nothing does this better than an UH dk. You get pet stun/charge and get more survivability as UH to piss off the disc as UH, and a disc priest with an UH dk beating on them will need a peel ASAP, further helping your team. Furthermore, spreading UH dots via pestilence does a surprising amount of dmg against grouped up teams which adds to your teams cleave dmg.

Just my 2 cents.

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 05:56 PM ----------

Thanks for your input thus far, and yes I'm playing DoTcleave. Usually running prot warr, 2x hpal, disc priest, frost dk, 2x boomkin, fire mage, warlock, rogue. Sometimes we swap out one of the boomkins for a shadow priest. I'm running with a heroic gurth at 4735 resil, should I be gemming for more resil do you think? I'm not usually targeted to be honest, I'm usually the last to die in a team fight for whatever reason.

You are really the last to die @ 4735 resil? You mentioned you were ~2-2.1k rated, which seems odd to me that your not getting hit harder. IMO casters and classes with escapes load up on PVE gear and gem offensively (a lot of boomkins/locks/fmages I see run around 4.0-4.5k resil). DK's, healers, EleSham's, full pvp gear and gem resil. If they're doing it right, your boomkins are top dmg, followed by your fmage then your lock / dk(you).

[Tyrean]

You could go unholy in a true dot cleave, but more often than not I am the person in charge of flag cappers as frost. The real benefit of frost in RBG is aoe flag cap stops, aoe snare, and high splash damage. I think unholy could work with a rogue on healers. You can extend more as unholy and an unholy DK and rogue on a disc will f him up. I may ask my RBG team to let me try that next time we roll. I am not sure who will watch flag cappers though....

[Malgru]

You are really the last to die @ 4735 resil? You mentioned you were ~2-2.1k rated, which seems odd to me that your not getting hit harder. IMO casters and classes with escapes load up on PVE gear and gem offensively (a lot of boomkins/locks/fmages I see run around 4.0-4.5k resil). DK's, healers, EleSham's, full pvp gear and gem resil. If they're doing it right, your boomkins are top dmg, followed by your fmage then your lock / dk(you).

Yep, I rarely ever get targeted first. CR is 1994, have been up to 2092. Usually a boomkin is top damage followed by me and then either a mage or a second boomie. So evidently something different about the damage o.O

[Humanenemy]

Death grip is your best friend, especially on the first fight of a new base or beginning of an FC map. I usually go for their DK first since it's usually the other teams target caller.
Use death grip whenever you notice a player overextending from their team and grip them to your teams side (You can grip people through the giant stumps in WSG btw!) Gripping a target as well over the river in TP and then using Chains of Ice (assuming you have Chillblains) will snare them so they can't get gripped back by a priest. Try gripping behind buildings like in WW or BS away from their healers LoS.

When switching targets make sure you know which cooldowns were used.
An amazing AddOn to see which cooldowns were used by the opposing players is Icicle.
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...48-Icicle.html

I haven't played RBG's much this season since dotcleaves just aren't fun to me, but what I do notice is that players will drop quickly this season compared to the last two due to spread damage, so be sure to always watch healthbars(so you use your howling blast on the lowest target) and be very talkative as a target caller. Also make sure to call the target at least 2-3 times, it does help. I usually pronounce the class or spec and their name (i'm a fast talker).

Never get on healers when they're oom and there's no innervate. I usually go for them when they've used Pain Suppression or Spirit Link. Death and Decay is a great way to keep them in combat if they try running off behind a building to drink.

Hope this helps

Oh and as others said, have your focus on healers and lock them down as much as you can. Since you have a boomy it should be really easy.