Thoughts on Zyra?

[Ariselia]

I don't know about you guys but I find Zyra is way too powerful currently in important aspects of the game. Every game I've lost since she arrived is when my team doesn't have her while the opp team has. She turns team fights upside down. Sure we can go straight for her but she just needs to spam her abilities once during team battles and step back. And unless you can roflstomp her easily, dueling her 1v1 sucks with her passive. With her roots harassing her can be very difficult as well with it passing through mobs.

These are my opinions/experiences with her. How do you guys find her?

[agnow]

Balanced.. She is new and alot of people don't know how to counter her or anything.. her plants is like heimrdingers turrets.. if you ignore them, you'r going to pay for it

[Zeoni]

I don't like how hard the plants hit and how much range they have. Her harass is amazing in lane and that snare is usually a Flash or kill off a gank. It has long enough range that you can possibly engage off it if your team doesn't really have a good initiate. Her ult is really good if it catches 3+ members of your team too. With all that being said, she is super squishy. With only the root and ult to get people off her, she'll die quite fast if you get a decent engage. However, if they get a good engage with a root + ult on your team, it quickly turns the fight so hard in their favour.

edit: Her plants are Hiemer's turrets if they had range and prioritized champions better

[Ariselia]

Yep the plants can hurt if you ignore them but so far I've realised ignoring Zyra is even worse :P

[Kanani]

From what ive seen she has insane burst damage and her ulti is pretty op. Yeah, not necessarily op, but still pretty damn strong and it has HUGE aoe.

[Toxigen]

She's fucking OP and needs to be banned every game.

As shown by a few top players, including Guardsman Bob, she can clear wraith camps without even walking around to the camp itself. Her CS capability is insane.

[Trollspwn]

She's fucking OP and needs to be banned every game.

As shown by a few top players, including Guardsman Bob, she can clear wraith camps without even walking around to the camp itself. Her CS capability is insane.

Almost every mid laner can do that -.-

She is still OP though, but several other aspects make her appear stronger than she actually is.

[Ariselia]

What I've learnt from today's loses is leave any game if your team doesn't have a Zyra if not banned and other team has her.

[StNimrod]

She's very strong true, but quite easy to kill in teamfights. Practically a free kill with right focus.

[Jaffa Saurus]

Too strong imo, if you're a good LoL player no matter what you will always get a kill even if you die in the process, her passive is way too strong - And the worst thing is its true damage. Her other abilities deal a shit ton of damage too but as it stands that passive needs reworking or nerfing.

[Anthoren]

I find that most of her kit likely needs some slight tweaking but her ult is insanely powerful in the right hands. Just as a reference I played a game as vayne where I was very fed so I had my full build with a banshee veil and gaurdian angel, I got hit by that ult with her snare (which broke the veil) and just about 3/4's of my health was gone just like that. Albeit I was cocky and not in perfect position since I was so damn fed but that just seems so much. Also I obviously understand vayne is made of paper but the Zyra did not even have a void staff. So yeah I would say focus that damn plant first than the AD carry just because of how evil she is lol.

[Waterisbest]

Her pushing is Insane. Because of this you can put her in any lane and pretty much win the lane. No one can sustain the damage her plants do, they also require 3 hits to take down. Unlike Heim, she can plant her plants from range. Heim's turret placement mechanic puts him in danger, Zyra doesn't have to go through the same problem. Not sure why a 6 hp plant requires three hit to take down, 2 spells need to take down a plant. It's retarded imo. Because of this she can poke when you are at your turret or the enemy turret turning the tide in her team's favor massively. I believe her plants do much more damage then Heim's and have a built in slow unlike Heim's. Due to her plants + seeds, she provide amazing dragon/Baron control. Don't think any other champion comes even close. Can kill dragon really early on all by herself which is also a major issue. Can 2/3 man Baron very early on as well.

Her q damage is pretty insane early on. The range on the thing is pretty insane aswell. Leveling Q early means you can keep almost any champion at their turret and with the use of plants, you can take down the turret as well and harass the enemy even under their turret pretty effectively.

W is an aoe stun. A battle turning spell. Use it and it's GG for the enemy AP/AD carry. The animation is dodgy too. You can't spot it well during a heavy team fight.

One ulti means your team is dead. Her ulti does the most damage of any AP champion and knocks you up. I honestly don't understand why Riot doesn't really look at the numbers properly. Surely giving the most damage to an instant aoe damage + aoe knock up after 2 sec sounds a bit OP? Nope, it does not to Riot.

She cannot be ganked. Her seeds + W + ulti + plants mean that she can turn a gank into a double kill if Zyra is a little smart. If you get ganked as Zyra, stop playing her. Just like Morgana. But unlike Morgana, she doesn't really have get in the middle of the enemy to use her ulti and it's extremely difficult for players to avoid her ulti aswell. 2 secs is not enough time to run away, even if you do, the position is fucked and your team has lost the fight.

You cannot chase her or run away from her. Chasing her is far worse. She can ulti or W or use plants to kill you in return.

Her lane phase can be controlled. You can counter push her if you play a little smart. But in team fights she is simply the most effective AP champion atm just looking at her ulti, leave the other spells out of this. The area of effect on the ulti is extremely large and pretty much entire team can get caught in it.

She will be nerfed. I see her ulti (damage + area + knockup time + the time it takes to knock up), plant damage, plant planting range and the number of plants you can have all getting nerfed.

It's pretty obvious that she is OP when you own her in lane and she can make a retarded strong comeback, much worse then pre nerf Darius. The biggest problem right now with her is... well... I can't decide on one, there are many. She will be gradually nerfed. First thing she needs a nerf on is her ulti damage, then the time it takes for the ulti to knock you up. Her ulti should be position disrupting spell. Right it does pretty much everything, meaning winning the team fight for your team.

Even if you managed to kill the bitch, she will kill you as well.

Her kit is a dream kit. People keep saying she is squishy, aren't almost all AP champions squishy? If an AP champion player is slightly smart, they will stand behind their tanks. And as Zyra you don't even have to go in the middle of the fight to do anything like Ahri or Morgana, or even get close like Cass. You can just stay back and enjoy.

[Thelxi]

I was looking forward to the nature mage more than any other datamined champ, but she is just too much effort for me. I'm pretty sure nerfs are on their way too. I'll stick with ahri for now.

[Trollspwn]

@Waterisbest

First of all your post is kinda confusing. Her W is her seed plant and passive CDR, not an AOE stun. Her teamfight pressence is godlike but she is infact squishy as fuck. I really can´t think off a single top tier mage who is as squishy as her without any escape to make up for it.

She can be ganked no problem at all, just don´t be an idiot about it. You wouldn´t just walk up to her and try to kill her same way as you wouldn´t jump onto a karthus or mordekaiser without making sure you don´t die. Every AP mid in the game is capable off getting a cross kill or even double kill from a reversed gank. You can simply dodge her spells or CC her until she dies. I agree she needs to be nerfed but you are exaggerating. People don´t even seem to try to play against her properly.

I really don´t understand the whine about the passive, It´s definitly the worst part of her kit and maybe even one of the worst passives in the game.

Some changes could be to reduce the plant damage, make them easier to kill. Make her ulti do the same damage but over time. Her E could have either shorter range or maybe reduced snare time for every target hit.

[Caine]

<snip>

You're exaggerating, a lot. She's very strong, but some of your accusations make no sense. Why plants with 6 hp take 3 shots to take down? Because wards with 3 take 3. Her plants are ridiculously squishy and prioritize minions over champions - she has to walk over to you and autoattack you to switch the plant's target. Also, turret takes the plant down in one hit, not 3 - and the turrets give first priority to her plants, even over minions. As for built-in slow, only the melee ones have it, not the ranged ones.
Q damage is high, but it's impossible to get hit by it unless you got hit by E as well or are afk, and her E(not W.) is not an aoe stun, it's an aoe root. Still powerful ,but a completely different dimension.

I really don´t understand the whine about the passive, It´s definitly the worst part of her kit and maybe even one of the worst passives in the game.

...What? Nearly 550 aoe true damage in a fast and easy to hit skillshot 'weak'? Oo Her passive is incredibly powerful.

[Waterisbest]

@Waterisbest

First of all your post is kinda confusing. Her W is her seed plant and passive CDR, not an AOE stun. Her teamfight pressence is godlike but she is infact squishy as fuck. I really can´t think off a single top tier mage who is as squishy as her without any escape to make up for it.

She can be ganked no problem at all, just don´t be an idiot about it. You wouldn´t just walk up to her and try to kill her same way as you wouldn´t jump onto a karthus or mordekaiser without making sure you don´t die. Every AP mid in the game is capable off getting a cross kill or even double kill from a reversed gank. You can simply dodge her spells or CC her until she dies. I agree she needs to be nerfed but you are exaggerating. People don´t even seem to try to play against her properly.

I really don´t understand the whine about the passive, It´s definitly the worst part of her kit and maybe even one of the worst passives in the game.

Some changes could be to reduce the plant damage, make them easier to kill. Make her ulti do the same damage but over time. Her E could have either shorter range or maybe reduced snare time for every target hit.

I might have mistaken what her spells are on keyboard but the point still stands. It is an AOE stun/snare. Heim, Brand and I believe Malzahar are as squishy as her if not more. Maybe even Cass.

You can gank anyone. But if the Zyra is a little smart, you won't be able to. She is one of the most anti-gank champions atm. Unless you have hard CC and she is over-extending, it's very difficult to gank her. Every AP champ is able to get a double kill, but Zyra is far more capable after she hits level 6. She can ulti and burst down atleast one target extremely fast while running away from the gank.

Her passive is strong because unlike Kog's, it is ranged, does more damage and can hit many targets inline.

[Ignominious]

That ulti is crazy, enough said. However, isn't this always the case with new champions? Make them just a tad OP so that people have some extra incentive to try them? Correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't been playing through many patches, but that seems to be the theme alright.

[Waterisbest]

You're exaggerating, a lot. She's very strong, but some of your accusations make no sense. Why plants with 6 hp take 3 shots to take down? Because wards with 3 take 3. Her plants are ridiculously squishy and prioritize minions over champions - she has to walk over to you and autoattack you to switch the plant's target. Also, turret takes the plant down in one hit, not 3 - and the turrets give first priority to her plants, even over minions. As for built-in slow, only the melee ones have it, not the ranged ones.
Q damage is high, but it's impossible to get hit by it unless you got hit by E as well or are afk, and her E(not W.) is not an aoe stun, it's an aoe root. Still powerful ,but a completely different dimension.


...What? Nearly 550 aoe true damage in a fast and easy to hit skillshot 'weak'? Oo Her passive is incredibly powerful.

Wards don't do insane damage to you in return and don't slow you down. Her plants are squishy later on in the game, try to AA her plant as an AP carry early game and see if does more damage to you or you do more damage to it. I didn't talk about turret damage to plants at all, I was talking about ability damage to them. Requiring a plants to hit twice with an ability is stupid. One use should get rid of them. And turrets don't target plants over minions. They never seem to do it in my games, maybe it's a bug and not intended (the entire EUW has been a total fuck up for the last 2-3 days with dcs and abilities not working sometimes, so maybe it's an effect of that).

Overall, in lane phase, you can control her, even win (I have won lanes against her as Ryze, Morg and LB), but in team fights she is a pure menace. It's her team fight presence that needs to toned down, and limiting her ulti and W a bit more is key to that. Her W might be a snare, it still is an AOE one and very difficult to spot during team fights due to it's animation.

Reduce damage on her ulti and the time it takes to knock up aloge with the radius reduced a bit. Make her W more visible. Make her plants die in one spell hit and two AA's, maybe even 1 one AA. She doesn't need to move in like Heim to place her plants. So she can "poke" you extremely effectively.

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 09:07 PM ----------

That ulti is crazy, enough said. However, isn't this always the case with new champions? Make them just a tad OP so that people have some extra incentive to try them? Correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't been playing through many patches, but that seems to be the theme alright.

Not really. Some champions have been released UP and are still UP.

What you are saying makes sense. But I doubt it's the reason behind champions being OP. Riot isn't very good at balancing their champions.

Also, she has insane control over dragon/Baron, which is another reason why she is so OP.

[Caine]

Wards don't do insane damage to you in return and don't slow you down. Her plants are squishy later on in the game, try to AA her plant as an AP carry early game and see if does more damage to you or you do more damage to it. I didn't talk about turret damage to plants at all, I was talking about ability damage to them. Requiring a plants to hit twice with an ability is stupid. One use should get rid of them. And turrets don't target plants over minions. They never seem to do it in my games, maybe it's a bug and not intended (the entire EUW has been a total fuck up for the last 2-3 days with dcs and abilities not working sometimes, so maybe it's an effect of that).

Overall, in lane phase, you can control her, even win (I have won lanes against her as Ryze, Morg and LB), but in team fights she is a pure menace. It's her team fight presence that needs to toned down, and limiting her ulti and W a bit more is key to that. Her W might be a snare, it still is an AOE one and very difficult to spot during team fights due to it's animation.

Reduce damage on her ulti and the time it takes to knock up aloge with the radius reduced a bit. Make her W more visible. Make her plants die in one spell hit and two AA's, maybe even 1 one AA. She doesn't need to move in like Heim to place her plants. So she can "poke" you extremely effectively.

You are so wrong. You are ignoring everything you can use to take care of her in favour of crying for nerfs. She is very strong, but most of your complaints regarding lane phase are based on false and/or exaggerated assumptions.

Her plants do NOT prioritize champions. If there is a minion nearby it will hit the minion instead, in order to make the plant target the champion Zyra has to go in and autoattack them. You can EASILY take the plants down while they are shooting at minions and it only takes a couple seconds. They won't deal more damage to you than you to them because they won't deal any damage to you. And YES, turrets do target plants over minions and kill them in one hit. You were talking about getting poked at the tower by plants which is bullshit, because any plants under tower will die very fast (only way for them to last a bit is to put them down when a cannon minion or player tank is getting attacked) AND in order for those plants to attack you under the tower Zyra'd have to go into tower range herself and autoattack you, drawing turret aggro. Also, I'll repeat what you ignored. Only the melee plants have a built-in slow. As the word "melee" suggests, they only attack in extremely close range, hence don't even need minions nearby for you to blow them up in a couple seconds.

Make plants die in one autoattack? In one spell? What else? Maybe they should die when you get near them? They are very easy to take care of in laning phase due to their targeting procedure and they already fall over nearly instantly in teamfights thanks to collateral damage flying all over the place.

I won't argue about strong teamfight presence, but how about this: instead of crying for overnerfing her, try to look for weaknesses? I've played her quite a bit over past week (gotta have fun before nerfbat hits) and there's a ton of ways to deal with her and use her weaknesses.

[FoShizzleMyGrizzle]

OP, ungankable and unkillable solo.