I can't believe I may be caving to this hype...

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-07-28, 12:22 AM

The advantage to meleeing is that it does more damage and has different utility.

Melee is 'harder' than ranged, but that's only if you decide to just sit still and push buttons, rather than actively avoid damage. Every enemy has visual tells accompanying their dangerous moves.

**Worgoblin** · 2012-07-28, 12:28 AM

I would not buy GW2 without trying it first. I tried it last beta weekend. To me there is nothing special about it. I found the PvP be sluggish and less responsive than WoW. With gimmicks like dodge (really it's just a 1-2 second immunity, but whatever), and the downed state thing, which I found to be more annoying than innovative.

Don't believe the hype.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-07-28, 12:30 AM

If you thought GW2 pvp was sluggish and unresponsive, you were playing it wrong. Mashing all abilities off CD is not the way it's done, and will result in long periods of having no button to push when you need them. Dodging is definitely more than a "gimmick" at that - it's an essential limited-by-resource survival tool for all professions.

Dodge is going to be that thing that causes GW2 pvp to be based heavily on personal skill, rather than on your class and build like in WoW - both in how you use it, and how well you can anticipate the enemy using it.

**Snow White** · 2012-07-28, 12:41 AM

Someone really thinks wow pvp is good?

You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are dead.

Also:

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

If you thought GW2 pvp was sluggish and unresponsive, you were playing it wrong. Mashing all abilities off CD is not the way it's done, and will result in long periods of having no button to push when you need them. Dodging is definitely more than a "gimmick" at that - it's an essential limited-by-resource survival tool for all professions.

Dodge is going to be that thing that causes GW2 pvp to be based heavily on personal skill, rather than on your class and build like in WoW - both in how you use it, and how well you can anticipate the enemy using it.

I love this video as well, it's REALLY informative.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-07-28, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Snow White

Someone really thinks wow pvp is good?

You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are dead.

"You can't do that while stunned" was the Shaman motto in TBC.

**VibrantViolet** · 2012-07-28, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Zipzo

Okay. First things first, I played WoW from the day it came out in Vanilla until Firelands in Cataclysm released and quit. I went to TERA and bashed the hell out of GW2's hype. I believe (and still believe) that the game will fare similarly numbers wise to every single other modern MMORPG released in the past 8 years or so.

I've seen a handful of videos, and I've skimmed that big "uninitiated" thread. This goes out to everyone who has extensive experience in the beta, I would like skeptics, haters, and lovers alike to share their thoughts...I am absolutely a fresh ear to this. I have no pre-conceived notions or any opinions to go off of. I have no friends that have played beta.

Is this game it? Does its PvP really stand out as much as its puffing its chest up to do so? Is its PvE tacked on and mediocre as a result? What's the skill cap on the characters seeing as everyone literally only gets like 8 moves (something like that?).

Introduce me to why this game may capture and be the best choice I ever made (before I pre-purchase it).

(I am a PvPer, but I do take a liking to well thought out and challenging PvE content)

I played WoW from vanilla until about 3 months ago, with one extended break in between. From one WoW player to another, I do think this game is worth checking out. WoW has become stale to me, and GW2 is a breath of fresh air. I LOVE the PvP. I can't even tell you enough how much better it is then WoW's PvP. You have to try it, but yes, the PvP is *that* good. It's not competely gear-based, like in WoW, you actually have to have skill, which makes it challenging, fun, and rewarding.

I also enjoyed the PvE, from what little I did. I haven't done a dungeon yet, but I did enjoy the different quests, DE's, and the personal story. It's so much different, and better, then the "Find the NPC with a !, and do what they want, then go back" routine. I still have yet to find jumping puzzles, too, but I am looking forward to that as well.

---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 09:00 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Worgoblin

I would not buy GW2 without trying it first. I tried it last beta weekend. To me there is nothing special about it. I found the PvP be sluggish and less responsive than WoW. With gimmicks like dodge (really it's just a 1-2 second immunity, but whatever), and the downed state thing, which I found to be more annoying than innovative.

Don't believe the hype.

It's FAR more responsive then WoW's PvP. I PvPed in WoW for a long, long time. I found the PvP in GW2 to be a lot more fluid, and the dodging works great. It saved my life a few times. PvP in WoW is painful. If you aren't the FoTM class, or a class with a buttload of stuns, you're SOL unless you have at least 4k resilience.

Deleted · 2012-07-28, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Worgoblin

I would not buy GW2 without trying it first. I tried it last beta weekend. To me there is nothing special about it. I found the PvP be sluggish and less responsive than WoW. With gimmicks like dodge (really it's just a 1-2 second immunity, but whatever), and the downed state thing, which I found to be more annoying than innovative.

Don't believe the hype.

I would completely agree not to buy any game without trying it first. Getting various trials and beta keys for several recent mmos have saved me a lot of annoyance by working out I have no interest in the game. Just because something is hyped doesn't necessarily mean it's good or something you'd enjoy. Personally I was pretty much sold on GW 2 within five minutes, loved the combat and all the little flaws were nothing compared to how beautiful and engaging the world is. But again, it just proves that someone elses opinion of what one enjoys holds little sway to someone's own opinion. The game's not for everyone, it has it's bad sides and is by no means infallible.

To be blunt, some people will want their raids and instances in order to get better gear, if they enjoy it they shouldn't be made to feel as being wrong for wanting to play a game their way. Some people will find the weapon and skills selection limited, and that's fine. I've known people who don't have the sharpest reflexes who honestly don't want to constantly be dodging as they don't find it enjoyable. I'm not one of them, but I count myself as a (slightly level headed) fan of GW2 who plans to play it for a very long time.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-07-28, 01:22 AM

Many of GW2's greatest strengths are also it's greatest flaws. I can think of one gamer, at least, that this game is definitely not for:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/01/12/gu...ildmate-steer/

**AtomicWonder** · 2012-07-28, 01:48 AM

I've been waiting for a successor to Asheron's Call and its skill based game. While not quite there, I do believe that this game is about as close as it gets without stepping into the FPS genre. But I think most of the skill will come from "mastering the keyboard/mouse/gamepad" and being clued into conditions and boons and knowing when to dodge, juke, and jive.

**Zem** · 2012-07-28, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Snow White

Someone really thinks wow pvp is good?

You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are dead.

You mean like this @ 0:32

**Osprey39** · 2012-07-28, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Zem

You mean like this @ 0:32

The best part was the last one lol

edit: I will also add that the video sums up in just under 3 minutes why I no longer play WoW anymore. I had a friend back in the day that used to say "the problem with stereotypes is....they fit". Totally true in this case.

**ThisWillNotStand** · 2012-07-28, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Zipzo

Okay. First things first, I played WoW from the day it came out in Vanilla until Firelands in Cataclysm released and quit. I went to TERA and bashed the hell out of GW2's hype. I believe (and still believe) that the game will fare similarly numbers wise to every single other modern MMORPG released in the past 8 years or so.

I've seen a handful of videos, and I've skimmed that big "uninitiated" thread. This goes out to everyone who has extensive experience in the beta, I would like skeptics, haters, and lovers alike to share their thoughts...I am absolutely a fresh ear to this. I have no pre-conceived notions or any opinions to go off of. I have no friends that have played beta.

Is this game it? Does its PvP really stand out as much as its puffing its chest up to do so? Is its PvE tacked on and mediocre as a result? What's the skill cap on the characters seeing as everyone literally only gets like 8 moves (something like that?).

Introduce me to why this game may capture and be the best choice I ever made (before I pre-purchase it).

(I am a PvPer, but I do take a liking to well thought out and challenging PvE content)

You bashed the game's hype for no reason and now you're asking us to convince you to play it? Go to hell, how's that, go enjoy pandarens and fanning bobby kotick's naked butt on his pleasure barge.

Big sense of entitlement you have there kiddo.

That was unnecessary -- Kel

Deleted · 2012-07-28, 04:06 PM

Speaking from a PvE player's standpoint:
I agree that some of GW2's biggest strengths will also be it's biggest flaws for some people.

The fact that gear doesn't have as much of an impact on character power, coupled with the not hugely tangible power increase from levelling, can really hurt the sense of character progression which is for MANY people one of the main reasons they play MMORPGs at all. This is going to be a big issue for some people. Sure some don't care, but I expect that alot of people do infact care - feeling like you are growing in power as you get gear is one of the perks of raiding. Getting that upgrade, that awesome trinket, that amazing weapon, that brilliant set bonus - it feels good. GW2 doesn't really have that.

People who love MMOs for their endgame PvE may also find it disappointing. I know ALOT of people in my current wow guild and amongst my gaming friends who play MMORPGs solely for endgame pvE and raiding in particular. They derive immense enjoyment and satisfaction from gathering a group of people together and coordinating to take down a hard, technical boss encounter. I'm talking about stuff like Kael Thas, Lady Vashj, Heroic Lich King, Yogg 1 / 0 lights, Heroic Ragnaros etc. People who love MMOs for that type of content will probably find GW2 grossly lacking.

BUT

There are many things it does very well. The Dynamic Event system is brilliant, and is a superb evolution on what RIFT has already done with its Rifts and Instant Adventure system. DEs draw you in, and are a generally great fun way of levelling. HOWEVER I am not convinced that they will continue to provide enjoyment at max level. RIFT has stuff like that with IA and its Rifts, but it also has a very well made 5 man dungeon and raid system as well - there's TONNES to do at max level. For people who adore PvE, I am not sure GW2 will be able to compete with WoW and Rift.

If you love PvP though, and have a system that can handle WvWvW at decent frame rates (last beta weekend was unplayable in WvWvW for me) then I suspect you will find ALOT of enjoyment from GW2 though, as it's class and combat system is superb. The action is fast, fluid and just feels great. Engineer was some of the most fun I've had on a class in an MMORPG in AGES. This is what saddens me really, if I thought GW2 also had raids, and a solid sounding endgame PvE system beyond just "go do more of what you've been doing for 80 levels, i.e running around in the world looking for NPCs to help out" then I would almost definitely make it my MMO of choice.

However until I can get some kind of guarantee that it will be able to provide the kind of endgame PvE that I enjoy in WoW and Rift, I won't be spending my £50 on it. (Which is also an UTTERLY RIDICULOUS price for a PC game these days, sort it out NCsoft.)

**Pancha** · 2012-07-28, 04:13 PM

I did unfortunately not like what GW2 had to offer. I've been in all the beta weekends and even had some "exclusive" looks during a convention in Singapore, but it did not feel like it stood out enough. It might just be me getting tired of MMO's in general. So my answer would be: Test it out yourself. The money put into an MMO for a month is well worth it compared to what you would get with a regular game for the same price tag.

**Fencers** · 2012-07-28, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Snow White

Someone really thinks wow pvp is good?

You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are stunned.
You are dead.

perfect summation of my frustration with mmo pvp since... shadowbane.

**Snow White** · 2012-07-28, 05:28 PM