1. #281
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    I just wanted to point out that your stat priorities are just one way of doing things. While it's true that your stat priorities are entirely valid and will result in overall less damage taken, it will potentially be very spiky. There's also an active mitigation build stacking mastery that is designed to smooth damage over time (even though it's overall more damage), making things a bit easier on healers and having potentially fewer "oh crap" moments. This build actually prioritizes much differently (and is a little hard for veteran protection paladins to wrap their mind around, i think, it was for me anyway). This stat priority looks something like this:

    Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (7.5%) > Mastery > Dodge = Parry = Haste

    Hit and Expertise are top priorities for this build because you absolutely cannot have a HP generating ability or SoR not connect. Obviously stacking Mastery is there to increase the damage reduction of ShoR.

    I know it's weird seeing Haste in a stat priority anywhere for us, but this build is dependent on maximizing HP generation thus maximizing ShoR uptime. In fact, sims show that the more hit and expertise you have, the more valuable haste is.

  2. #282
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos View Post
    I just wanted to point out that your stat priorities are just one way of doing things. While it's true that your stat priorities are entirely valid and will result in overall less damage taken, it will potentially be very spiky. There's also an active mitigation build stacking mastery that is designed to smooth damage over time (even though it's overall more damage), making things a bit easier on healers and having potentially fewer "oh crap" moments. This build actually prioritizes much differently (and is a little hard for veteran protection paladins to wrap their mind around, i think, it was for me anyway). This stat priority looks something like this:

    Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (7.5%) > Mastery > Dodge = Parry = Haste

    Hit and Expertise are top priorities for this build because you absolutely cannot have a HP generating ability or SoR not connect. Obviously stacking Mastery is there to increase the damage reduction of ShoR.

    I know it's weird seeing Haste in a stat priority anywhere for us, but this build is dependent on maximizing HP generation thus maximizing ShoR uptime. In fact, sims show that the more hit and expertise you have, the more valuable haste is.
    I will be prioritising this come T14 for this reason.

    Edit: That said i will definately be priortising parry ahead of dodge - dont consider those two stats to be equal at all.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2012-09-21 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #283
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos View Post
    -snip-
    This is what I was going to update the guide to now that I'm back from watching Killing Them Softly. Bit off topic but I wouldn't recommend seeing it, it's a bit like a bad Pulp Fiction without the awesome memorable phrases or the times being all switched around.

    What I was going to do exactly, was to split it into an avoidance, mitigation and spell section then combine them into various acceptable hybrids.
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  4. #284
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Parry and Dodge will actually want to be stacked in a specific ratio to each other to minimize the effect of diminishing returns. You can actually use the below macro in game and it will tell you if you need more dodge or parry.

    " /run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Ideal pre-dr parry/dodge ratio: 3.597, yours is %.3f%%, if too high reforge more parry to dodge",(GetParryChance()-3.67)/(GetDodgeChance()-5.01))) "

    I take no credit for this macro, it was created by Theck.

  5. #285
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos View Post
    Parry and Dodge will actually want to be stacked in a specific ratio to each other to minimize the effect of diminishing returns. You can actually use the below macro in game and it will tell you if you need more dodge or parry.

    " /run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Ideal pre-dr parry/dodge ratio: 3.597, yours is %.3f%%, if too high reforge more parry to dodge",(GetParryChance()-3.67)/(GetDodgeChance()-5.01))) "

    I take no credit for this macro, it was created by Theck.
    This is another thing on the previous page or so I said I would add, and am going to today Been busy packing for univ and discovering my parents hate me so I've been out the house almost constantly for the past 2 weeks but I go to university on sunday. I'm all done now and trying to see if I can bear some time with them before I move out, so I'm able to do all the updating I said I would now
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  6. #286
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Well, then now I feel silly for not having read every post in the thread, lol.

  7. #287
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos View Post
    Well, then now I feel silly for not having read every post in the thread, lol.
    Hah no need, the first 6 or 7 pages at least was all discussion over various things and me asking for info from others Would never expect anyone to read it all, the majority of it will be meaningless to someone not present for the conversations from the start Besides, I said I'd do it but never did so if it's a problem it'd be my one.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 05:49 PM ----------

    Ok, heavily edited the stats section as I said I would. Now I can have a cup of tea
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  8. #288
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Excellent job!

    The one thing I haven't seen any guides say, which may be obvious to a lot of us but not necessarily someone needing the information in a basic guide, is that a mitigation build will also improve DPS and threat, particularly early on in the fight. Since completely avoiding an attack gives us no vengeance (it just adds time to the buff), avoiding an attack is essentially bad for DPS and threat. Not that threat is really an issue, but tank DPS can definitely make a difference these days. Mitigating an attack gives us the full amount of vengeance equal to the unmitigated amount of damage. There is also no cap on vengeance anymore. Because of these things, a mitigation build will allow us to stack vengeance earlier and higher than an avoidance build, increasing our threat and DPS.


    I also realized I need a signature. I haven't been active here for quite awhile! That will be forthcoming.
    Last edited by lumenos; 2012-09-21 at 05:41 PM.

  9. #289
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    I think you should get something praising how awesome the internet is because you're talking from Missouri (at least I think that's what MO stands for, St Louis Missouri sounds familiar anyway) to an 18 year old student living just north east of london, about to move halfway up the country on sunday for university, and we can communicate quickly and easily and collaborate about an online game
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  10. #290
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Yes, the interwebz are quite amazing. I am in Missouri, and should probably be working, but it's Friday and i'm feeling unmotivated. Getting ready for MoP and the new tanking mechanics have me all fired up and ready to raid again. It's been far too long. I haven't raided since Firelands, and that was as a resto druid. I haven't raided as a prot pally since ulduar and i'm super excited about it. "Pandas and pikachus" aside, i think this may very well be the best expansion yet. I have high hopes anyway.

  11. #291
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    My first day of Freshers Week is MOP launch day so yeah, doubt I'll be playing for a few weeks And on top of that, I discovered today that the university blocks certain things that render some online mmo games impossible to play, so I may turn into a player who only plays during holidays and then the occasional weekend I'm at home... which would be fine by me but annoying for the purposes of updating this as I'll have to go by other reports rather than my own which is just sad
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I think you should get something praising how awesome the internet is because you're talking from Missouri (at least I think that's what MO stands for, St Louis Missouri sounds familiar anyway) to an 18 year old student living just north east of london, about to move halfway up the country on sunday for university, and we can communicate quickly and easily and collaborate about an online game
    Sounds like a prelude to a Nokia commercial. :O

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  13. #293
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corylyn View Post
    Sounds like a prelude to a Nokia commercial. :O
    Over here, we call that an "Advert" D:
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  14. #294
    Mechagnome ayashi's Avatar
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    Theck's post on how to quantify damage smothing of mastery build(s) compared to avoidance.

    Short version: mastery build is up to 3 times less likely to get hit by the most dangerous spikes while tanking compared to the avoidance build.

    Happy pex'ing~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    the average wow player is only a step above eating glue and a step below doing basic addition. Right about being able to operate scissors fairly properly is the sweet spot.

  15. #295
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    And on that note, the mastery build is now the superior one due to the rate of damage smoothing. At least for this tier.

    As some of you may notice looking at my armory page, I am still level 85 and haven't logged on. This is because I am at University now and I had hoped to be able to play for maybe an hour or so in the middle of the night after clubbing or when the hallmates are otherwise busy.

    Sadly, due to how their systems work and what is allowed and not, various mmo games do not work and having tried it last night after a Caveman clubbing night, it appears that World of Warcraft is one of them. Having also read the little piece of cardboard detailing how to sort out internet connections, it also says that the IT department will not be able to do anything like make exceptions or ports or proxys or whatever it's called. Not that I'd be going to ask anyway, talk about social suicide much.

    Due to this, I will not be able to log on with any regularity whatsoever. I may go home for a weekend in a couple of weeks in which case I may be able to play for the weekend. Apart from that, I am off university (and therefore at home) from December 14th (day after my 19th birthday!) until the 14th January. This looks like the first time I'll be able to play with any consistency.

    This is somewhat a mixed blessing because whilst it means I will not be able to get first hand information or test things and whatnot, it does mean that when I need a timesink and I'm not doing typical studenty things like going out for a coffee or hitting the bar at 10am (because it's midday somewhere in the world) that I will invariably spend it surfing the web and mainly this forum. This means that any little tidbits of information I can gather although they are a secondary source, can be amalgamated and incorporated into this so it's not like I'm going to abandon this guide, especially considering the work that myself and others put into it.

    Hopefully this means that there will be a slight increase in the rate that this guide gets updated because lets not sugar coat it, the rate of updates recently has been absolutely abysmal on my part for which I can only apologize. I was distracted considering this is the first time I'm living alone and it's rather a long way from home However, now that I'm almost fully settled in and life will be regular stating Monday 1st October as I'll have lectures and not be clubbing every night like this week, I should be on here a lot more.

    Thought I should let you know the situation - I'm not going to ask you to lay out all the information on a silver platter for me but should something change or not have been updated correctly then please point it out and I'll jump right on it. Played my Protection Paladin for 6 years (that's 33% of my life, just thought I'd add that to make some of you feel old! ) and I've enjoyed helping others out and working with others all that time and despite not being able to play regularly, I don't plan to stop that.

    Sorry for the wall of text but it's kind of relevent and potentially important should people think "Oh God, don't tell me this will fall into disrepair"
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  16. #296
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Ok I've done the necessary updates, message me if there is anything else you want to see done/amended or just generally for a chat about protadin thingies. I've also become a bit of an expert on the city of Amman in Jordan thanks to a lovely young lady so I suppose I can do some kind of outreach thingy now.

    Did you know that they don't really have a lot of camels in Jordan? And that you can't insult the king over there as it's an arrestable offense but you can insult the queen, and because she used to do lots of visits and stuff she was questioned by people so now she can't do anything, so expect her to be quiet for a few years
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  17. #297
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    Need changelog list! hehe.

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  18. #298
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Defnitely, will add that after I'm back tonight unless I end up otherwise occupied again

    If I am then I'll add it in the morning after the walk of shame.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  19. #299
    I actualy play with

    Hit (7,5%) -> Mastery -> Haste -> Exp -> Doge = Pary / Strengh

    Like it says on Elitistjerks, this Build is very useful,you make awesome DPS and also have a good Migration with Schield.

    Maybe you add this to your Mainpost =)

  20. #300
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    Hey Merin.
    At the moment I'm playing with Hit > Mastery > Parry > Dodge > Expertise at the moment because of how hard I find it to hit both the Hit and Exp cap with the level of gear I have at the moment. Though, I was wondering if you could have a look at my armory and let me know what you thnk of my doings so far.
    Also, Brawlers Statue vs. Ghost Iron Dragonling (Mastery, Parry, Hit)? Thanks!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced

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