Do not change. Dodge and Parry are your two worst stats other than crit. Exp and Mastery are miles ahead.
Hey guys, I doubt any of you peruse the Hellfire-eu realm forums or the Social Rejects website (www.socialrejects.guildlaunch.com) so you wouldn't have seen this (and even after, it's unlikely anyone cares too much )
Either this coming weekend (27th-28th) or the one after (3rd-4th) I will be visiting home to say hello to the parents. During this time, I will be able to play wow again - meaning I can finally level to 90 and experience MOP because my first day of university was the day before MOP was launched.
If anyone is on an EU server (or even better, Hellfire - or even US I don't care/mind but you'd be the one getting up early!) I will be chatting to literally anyone who wants to talk about anything, especially paladins preferably. Be it you wish to whisper, Vent, Mumble, Skype, whatever I don't mind, I will be around to chat even if I don't know you.
During this time as well as spending some time with the parents, I will be leveling my tits off and preparing to jump into as much content as I possibly can. If the guild doesn't have any evil schemes planned for me then I'll be prepared to do stuff with other people as well.
I know this makes me sound pretty bigheaded but I would go as far to say that I'm "good" at my class but at the same time, when the majority of the playerbase doesn't do the content, simply by doing it you are either carried or good and I'm quietly confident that I was not carried. The main reason I'm posting this though is that I played this game (without break) for 6.5 years and I miss the community - sure people can say it doesn't exist but it does and it never ceased, just half of it turned into a cess pool but that's a different discussion.
This will give me an extra insight into the game other than the numbers and second hand sources I've had so far which can only be a benefit to the guide as long as I don't go batshit insane. If anyone (mainly EU please, and above that Hellfire but any EU is cool as long as you communicate in english) wants to chat when I am about (preferably voice programs too, mainly vent/mumble over skype - AND YOU HAVE A SERVER) then PM me and I'll let you know when I'm around as a vocal explanation of things always beats reading a typed summary.
Just a quick question about the gemming/enchanting section of the guide here. If we're advocating the haste build now wouldn't it be better to use gems such as Lightning Wild Jade (160 haste + 160 hit) and Wicked Vermillion Onyx (160 exp + 160 haste). As for enchants wouldn't the Enchant gloves/boots Haste also win out over the mastery counterparts?
We're advocating both the haste and mastery build, it's really dependent on personal preference and what your healers can cope with.
They do equivalent smoothing but then haste provides a bit more healing due to Glyph of Battle Healer and SoI, and more dps, but mastery grants lower total damage taken and less reliance on a 100% perfect rotation.
I missed those gems out by accident and I will add them. I've not seen the enchants as negotiating wowhead is painful with internet this bad but if anyone could could link them, much appreciated as I've not been able to see them (was totally unaware of their existence).
Ok thanks will look later after lectures/when internet works - internet being shitty but if that's the one which procs haste/crit/mastery then that's the correct weapon enchant and the others are inferior and I probably just forgot to update it.
Last edited by MerinPally; 2012-10-22 at 07:24 AM.
Yeah, I'm using Windsong right now, two out of three effects are useful, so that isn't bad (and they each proc individually too, I've had haste and mastery up at the same time, which is kinda neat).
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Former author of the TankSpot.com Protection Paladin guide
1. They may have a spec / gear set optimized for a specific job on a specific fight.
2. Especially tanks and healers, maybe spec oddly because their other tanks/healers are geared / skilled in some way which causes them to gear differently
3. Alot of players are well known to reforge, change gear pieces and even change gems / enchants before logging out to "troll" the other top guilds and tricking them they are gearing in a different way than they actually are.
I was one of those that stacked mastery from the beginning of cata for CTC cap. Everyone asked me "Don't you need stamina bla bla". I just told them no, I did not need a bigger health pool with smart cooldown uses for magic damage. For those that remember Maloriak Heroic, I tanked him quite early on in 25 HC with only 154k+-, everyone used to say you needed atleast 200k hp to survive his black phase breath, and pretty much nobody believed me that I tanked it only with 150k. And I feel like it is the exact same thing now. I am one of those that is stacking haste now because in my opinion it is far superior.
Mastery and haste are very close though, a matter of playstyle as I said earlier. The main point is that you should stack either, do not go 50/50.
Mastery and Haste are good on different fights. Some fights favors mastery ( like Emperor ), whilst most fights in my opinion favors haste. The main thing to remember is that Haste requires you to perform your rotation almost flawlessly, and actually knowing your class. You do not just need to know which buttons to push, you need to know WHY. You need to know when to hit SotR at 3 HoPo and when to pool up 5 HoPo.
I think that if you are running 10 man especially, haste is alot superior than mastery. For a few simple reasons.
1. Tanks are a bigger part of the total DPS in a 10 man group, the haste contributes a great deal to meet the enrage timer, and lets be honest, this is something you cannot ignore, if the enrage is the issue on a fight, and by reforging and regemming you can add a decent 5-15k dps as a tank without dying, that is a huge deal, especially in 10 man but also in 25 man.
2. If you are running with another plate tank, it is better for gearing ( again more important in 10 man ). On my paladin I am running 10 man with another warrior tank. We got no plate melees, so basicallly he takes all the "tank" gear, and I take almost all the "DPS" gear, causing us to gear up our tanks in twice the rate we would otherwise. We only share shields.
3. As in my case, when running with a warrior tank, but also transfers a bit to the other tank classes, haste niches us as a tank, it makes us unique. On some fights it makes us far superior to all other tanks. If there is a fight were haste is bad for some reason, let the other tank tank it.
4. Also my tanking gear works very well for DPS, since haste is the best stat for Retri aswell, and I am going for hit+exp cap. So it makes switching to retri a matter of switching weapon. The only thing that is subpar is ofc the enchants and meta gem. Which you could change to get optimal results. Though, it makes us valuable as a off-dps, since we do not need to collect a second gear set, only weapon and helm primarly. Also extremely valuable this early in the expansion when most off specs is full blues.
I have been trying to see benefits with mastery over haste, but I have very hard time finding that the benefits of mastery outweights those of haste. I am not dying, and I am even taking less damage taken then our other tank. I provide alot more raid dps and raid healing compared to a tank mastery built. I feel like the reason most tanks is going mastery is because they think haste is controversial, it feels wrong for them. Some others maybe stay mastery because it is what they are used to, mastery was the best in Cata, so they stay mastery. ( similar to stamina tanks in the beginning of Cata ). Others becauajse their guilds tell them to. A vast mority probably just stays it because other people use mastery, guessing the above poster is one of those, similar to your argument "Can't see any paladins that goes for haste". Follow the flow instead of taking a moment to think about it oneself.
Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-10-23 at 11:51 AM.
Haste is where it is at right now. Until such time as Mastery and other Avoidance stats can Catch up, I'll enjoy being a more Solid all round tank using Haste.
As I have stated again and again and Theck has even stated, Haste is not necessarily "the" king, it is part of a ruling duo if anything.
Both haste and mastery SMOOTH THE DAMAGE YOU TAKE - if you wanted to reduce total damage taken most then you'd get Avoidance but you don't because you want smoothing.
The upside of the haste build is more dps and more healing, however if you cannot get a perfect rotation out with regards to Holy Power builders then you are pretty fucked. The mastery build is not as reliant on a perfect rotation as haste so should you not be able to get a perfect rotation then it is superior - the added extra is that mastery makes you take slightly less damage than haste, as a build, but it's not a huge amount.
The key thing is that the smoothing is the same, mastery is forgiving on the rotation but haste isn't but then if you can get it perfect haste will do more dps and healing but still take slightly more damage (albeit not a lot).
If you look at pretty much all the hardmode raiding paladin tanks right now, especially the ones who did it first, they all went for mastery. Because that extra bit of dps and healing isn't required but the smaller damage taken and wiggle room on the rotation is required.
Take it as you will but it is NOT the case that you can proclaim either haste or mastery to be the king, they are 2 different builds, they are equal on DAMAGE SMOOTHING WHICH IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT BIT and then they each have their own smaller perks.
Great thread. I am shifting from Holy to Prot to get our raid team going. Still need some gear but this really helped to get on tanking on the right foot.
So basically we gonna take the "dps" gear for prot? Like the boots from Sha of Anger quest item, (i cant link atm need more posts) but the angerforged stompers with Haste and mastery, instead for the tank boots: mindfire sollerets, with parry and dodge?