1. #1621
    @Monolith. The error in your thought process is that you presume that tanks or healers care about TDR. Damage reduction with no predictability and low occurance, high effect (a.k.a. dodge or parry) are most often completely wasted into overhealing, and provide no real benefit. The only exception to this rule in this tier is Tortos bats, which is the only valid fight for dodge or parry as defensive stats.

    Same goes for Colossus. It is so small, and given the amount of time that tanks spend at 100% health, over 90% (That is a generous number, probably closer to 95) of the colossus procs are completely wasted into overhealing and have no real effect.

    So really, both of those enchants are completely useless for tanking purposes. This leaves two choices. Dancing Steel and Windsong.

    DS purely for the attack power from it. I used to prefer DS in T14, due to having lower vengeance numbers, aswell as so many bosses that stopped melee attacking you. In this tier however, there are so many solo tank fights, atleast in normal, and so many fights where it is duo tank (as in both tanks active, not 1 tank on boss and 1 tank jerking off in a corner).

    This has caused me to now favor Windsong over DS as it is on MOST fights, a much larger dps increase than DS.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #1622
    Oh god the double posting horror. I'm so bad at forums.

    @Firefly::
    Yeah, I agree, TDR isn't the way to approach tanking with our shiny new active mitigation style. There's really no way to compare the wep enchants without TDR, though. They're all random procs. They're all TDR. So, like you said, instead of thinking of wep enchants as a way to increase survivability, let's think of them as a way to rank on World o-... I mean, meet tight dps checks.

    @MerinPally::
    Yay math.

    @Promdate::
    I agree.

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    @Firefly::
    Yeah, I agree, TDR isn't the way to approach tanking with our shiny new active mitigation style. There's really no way to compare the wep enchants without TDR, though. They're all random procs. They're all TDR. So, like you said, instead of thinking of wep enchants as a way to increase survivability, let's think of them as a way to rank on World o-... I mean, meet tight dps checks.
    I do not understand what is so bad about tanks caring about dps.
    This "Tanks are only punchingbags made of meat"-mentality lives on.
    What is the difference if a dps can push out 60k more dps or a tank can push out 60k more dps?
    Other than that it is probably easier for a tank to increase his dps with 60k than a dps.
    Does it matter in your raid who does the extra dps? If you can deal extra dps as a tank, why not? Even if you can kill a boss, it is easier if you have more dps.
    If an enrage timer requiers 500k raid dps to kill the boss, and you have 600k raid dps, the boss would not exactly be harder if you had 700k instead of 600k, only faster and easier.

    Which brings back to the weapon enchants, none of them is attractive from a "tank" PoV So naturally that leads to checking them at a DPS PoV.
    Come to think of it, the only tank enchant that actually speaks to me the most for tanking, is the mastery proc on windsong. It is not great, but at least better than the other tank enchants. And then windsong also have the benefit of the highest dps increase of all the enchants through crit and haste.

    I think it is safe to say that Windsong is the best enchant for us. Atleast in 10 man. And that I say only because I have no first hand tank experience from 25 man this tier. So do not want to make statements about 25 man without anything to back it up with.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-25 at 05:44 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #1624
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I do not understand what is so bad about tanks caring about dps.
    This "Tanks are only punchingbags made of meat"-mentality lives on.
    Sorry if my reply seemed sarcastic, I was honestly agreeing. I enjoy WoL ranks as much as the next guy.

  5. #1625
    While WoL ranks are nice epeen boosts, in the end, its just about killing the bosses.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #1626
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Guys, sorry to break the line of conversation but I come again asking for your wisdom.

    We killed Durumu and Primordius last night (Primordius was joke, downed on the 2nd attempt, only failed first 'cuz nobody remembered what the Pathogen mutation was) and we gave Dark Animus a couple tries and we, basically, had our tanks get destroyed by the two adds.

    I think it's the standard tactic, but in case it's different I'll expain what was going on: We had every player take a small add (making sure they don't buff each other) and both tanks take 2 adds each and, like I said, those 2 adds were shredding us.

    What'd you do for this? Is the only solution placing them so you stand between'em, thus avoiding the buff? I saw Fatboss suggest that but they said it wasn't *necessary* or something. We'd never had tanking problems up until now. Even in Primordius we both got up to 8 stacks once (each) so the other could get mutated for LOLDPS and had no issues.

    Thanks!


  7. #1627
    They way I dealt with tanking 2 anima golem's was using judgment to start the fight (1hopo) then getting a CS/judge onto the golems before they activate and immediately using SoTR, when that's about to go down I chained GoAK. Usually at least 1 of my adds was dead by this time, but if not I'd use HoPur and that'd cover the last few seconds. If you need to use a lot of your cooldowns on these 2 adds to survive, the rest of the fight isn't particularly dangerous unless you hit something bad, in which case you'd most likely be dead anyway.

  8. #1628
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Hah, so I suppose I really SHOULD pop cooldowns here? It was just a few late-night tries so I wasn't really thinking it all through and was apprehensive to blow cooldowns that early in the engagement. Thanks.


  9. #1629
    If they get linked, they hit like a truck, I did as dreads and opened with a sotr then followed it with a GoAK and add was dead and you're safe and sound again.

  10. #1630
    pull, shotr, goak, 1 add dies, aggro on massive golen, HA, taunt another small one, move to middle, taunt one by one of the small golems.
    You could even use DP and noob defender as CDs. I see no point later in the fight, where u need those CDs again.

  11. #1631
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    Ofc you should use cooldowns there. Its the only hard time in this fight everything else is just nuking the boss till hes dead and some switching for the tanks, atleast in the way we did it. Furthermore you will have GoAK ready again at the end of the fight.

  12. #1632
    I was actually considerin respeccing to HA for Dark Animus, lol first, but then I realised they die so fast so it was not worth it. Just popped GoAK early on and 1 add was dead shortly after. Don't be afraid to blow CDs on them.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #1633
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the tips, guys! Gonna try it later tonight and see how it goes.


  14. #1634
    One vote for HA on this. I start the fight, then pop Wings/HA and go HAM on my 2 adds. Nuked to dead super fast and no "traditional" tank CDs used.

    That said, we dump the 4 tank adds into inactive golems, then just burn the boss before he gets to full energy. We CBA to learn how to actually do the fight until heroic.
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  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    We CBA to learn how to actually do the fight until heroic.
    You should change that philosophy. Half-assing your way through normals, only to have to learn heroic mechanics and normal mechanics can be very rough. It's best to know how to mitigate/avoid the normal mode mechanics and use them to your benefit, THEN adapt to the heroic mechanics before you have to relearn everything. We had that issue on a few of the T14 heroic fights because people just derped their way thorugh the normal mode mechanics.



  16. #1636
    I'm very bothered by expertise/hit on trinkets. I just got ji-kuns rising winds in LFR today. If I wanna use it I'll need to drop exp from gear, but then if I want to swap trinks I'll be under cap

  17. #1637
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    I'm very bothered by expertise/hit on trinkets. I just got ji-kuns rising winds in LFR today. If I wanna use it I'll need to drop exp from gear, but then if I want to swap trinks I'll be under cap
    Being under expertise cap is not a big deal. Still. Ghost iron dragonling is better than Ji-Kuns. No reason at all to use Ji-Kuns.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #1638
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Being under expertise cap is not a big deal. Still. Ghost iron dragonling is better than Ji-Kuns. No reason at all to use Ji-Kuns.
    Not wearing a trinket at all is probably about the same as equipping Ji-Kun's...
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  19. #1639
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Not wearing a trinket at all is probably about the same as equipping Ji-Kun's...
    Like this one?

    Elegon Trinket
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #1640
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Being under expertise cap is not a big deal.
    Being under exp cap kinda defeats the purpose of a control / haste build. The healing from ji-kuns is a bit underwhelming though, you're right. I don't fall that low very often unless we're wiping. I guess I'll just keep it in my bank until there's some situation that calls for it... maybe some new chimaeron boss or something.

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