Demonic Circle: Teleport & Stuns

[Cempa]

Why does Teleport not break Stun?

[Jessicka]

Why does Teleport not break Stun?

Because that would make it overpowered. I know you'll argue about Blink, but Warlocks are fine in 3s where it matters, so it's clearly not that big a deal that it doesn't.

Blink also can't move you in the Z axis and can't move you out of LoS as effectively, or even move you as far. They are not the same spell.

[Nicola]

Because that would make it overpowered. I know you'll argue about Blink, but Warlocks are fine in 3s where it matters, so it's clearly not that big a deal that it doesn't.

Blink also can't move you in the Z axis and can't move you out of LoS as effectively, or even move you as far. They are not the same spell.

I wonder why it are always the people with 1k rating that say spells are fine in 3s

3s matter, sure, so does all the rest, Pve and PvP.

Because right now the skill is totally not overpowered, and yeah, just because blink moves ur character and breaks stuns, it's fine to compare teleport with blink /sarcasm

The only reason teleport doesn't break stuns is because teleport already offers to much utility

[Arcontes]

I wonder why it are always the people with 1k rating that say spells are fine in 3s

3s matter, sure, so does all the rest, Pve and PvP.

Because right now the skill is totally not overpowered, and yeah, just because blink moves ur character and breaks stuns, it's fine to compare teleport with blink /sarcasm

The only reason teleport doesn't break stuns is because teleport already offers to much utility

That's actually not true. The reason Demonic Circle does not remove stuns is the long cooldown. If it was to remove stuns, you'd always keep the teleport out of cd to save your ass as you get stunned. This was not the purpose of it in the first place, and if you say otherwise you're being plain blind. Most of the times it would be used to break stuns, and not to trick opponents/escape/disappear, because it would feel like a waste teleporting if you weren't clearing a stun effect.
Of course, lowering the CD is not an option for such a powerful spell, so yeah... It's fine like it is, no qq and more pewpew please.

[Deleted]

That's actually not true. The reason Demonic Circle does not remove stuns is the long cooldown. If it was to remove stuns, you'd always keep the teleport out of cd to save your ass as you get stunned. This was not the purpose of it in the first place, and if you say otherwise you're being plain blind. Most of the times it would be used to break stuns, and not to trick opponents/escape/disappear, because it would feel like a waste teleporting if you weren't clearing a stun effect.
Of course, lowering the CD is not an option for such a powerful spell, so yeah... It's fine like it is, no qq and more pewpew please.

You could say the same for blink... but in practice you use it to escape as well.

[Jessicka]

You could say the same for blink... but in practice you use it to escape as well.

Blink also can't move you in the Z axis and can't move you out of LoS as effectively, or even move you as far. They are not the same spell.

10 characters

[Deleted]

10 characters

This wasn't about the mechanisms of both spells, but the way they are used. The poster I replied to argued that the portal would be saved to escape from stuns. I argued that the same could be said about blink in theory, but in practice you see that it is used to escape/evade as well.

[Holtzmann]

This wasn't about the mechanisms of both spells, but the way they are used. The poster I replied to argued that the portal would be saved to escape from stuns. I argued that the same could be said about blink in theory, but in practice you see that it is used to escape/evade as well.

Yes, because Blink has a cooldown matching a Charge and many other gap closers and it's not that hard to catch the Mage after he's used it. Likewise, it won't take long until the mage can try it again, and he can still use his trinket if he does end up stunned after a mobility Blink.

Demonic Circle can take you far beyond the range of a gap closer and up cliffs and out of LOS if you place it right. In terms of controlling your position, it has the potential to be far more powerful than Blink. I personally lost count of the times I used it as a shortcut through terrain when I needed to get to/out of a fight (or to get back to the Hourglass through a sea of voidzones in Murozond). Making it able to wipe stuns would allow Warlocks to simply plop it down anywhere before the fight so they can hold on to it as a "get out of jail free" card as opposed to a mobility tool. It's much easier to survive until Blink comes off cooldown than it is for Demonic Circle to come off cooldown. And you can't give Circle a shorter cooldown, as that would make it too powerful.

[Nicola]

Yes, because Blink has a cooldown matching a Charge and many other gap closers and it's not that hard to catch the Mage after he's used it. Likewise, it won't take long until the mage can try it again, and he can still use his trinket if he does end up stunned after a mobility Blink.

Demonic Circle can take you far beyond the range of a gap closer and up cliffs and out of LOS if you place it right. In terms of controlling your position, it has the potential to be far more powerful than Blink. I personally lost count of the times I used it as a shortcut through terrain when I needed to get to/out of a fight (or to get back to the Hourglass through a sea of voidzones in Murozond). Making it able to wipe stuns would allow Warlocks to simply plop it down anywhere before the fight so they can hold on to it as a "get out of jail free" card as opposed to a mobility tool. It's much easier to survive until Blink comes off cooldown than it is for Demonic Circle to come off cooldown. And you can't give Circle a shorter cooldown, as that would make it too powerful.

It already has a 21 second cooldown and that's already short enough imo...

[painweaver]

Yes, because Blink has a cooldown matching a Charge and many other gap closers and it's not that hard to catch the Mage after he's used it. Likewise, it won't take long until the mage can try it again, and he can still use his trinket if he does end up stunned after a mobility Blink.

Demonic Circle can take you far beyond the range of a gap closer and up cliffs and out of LOS if you place it right. In terms of controlling your position, it has the potential to be far more powerful than Blink. I personally lost count of the times I used it as a shortcut through terrain when I needed to get to/out of a fight (or to get back to the Hourglass through a sea of voidzones in Murozond). Making it able to wipe stuns would allow Warlocks to simply plop it down anywhere before the fight so they can hold on to it as a "get out of jail free" card as opposed to a mobility tool. It's much easier to survive until Blink comes off cooldown than it is for Demonic Circle to come off cooldown. And you can't give Circle a shorter cooldown, as that would make it too powerful.

Teleport giving locks the ability to move vertically and in more than one direction can be powerful, but your opponent can still see where your portal is, which gives them a little more of an edge than you are crediting. A mage can blink and a quickly immobilize an opponent, reducing the damage the mage takes- that's the goal in pvp right? to mitigate damage and not die? When a lock is stunned, they have no option of teleporting up a cliff or around a wall during the stun, or chain of stuns, they just have to eat the damage, unless they trinket---making any potential that teleport had useless.

Also, it should be noted that demonic portal is not a true defensive ability, but pure utility spell, unlike blink because teleport has to be preplanned to even have the possibility of moving your character from point A to B when not stunned.

[Holtzmann]

So wiping snares and gaining potentially 40 yards of distance, height advantage and/or LOS against an enemy is useless if you can't also clear a Stun? Yes, they can see where we're teleporting to, but it's not like a Warrior or Rogue won't just Charge/Shadowstep back to the Mage who is necessarily in LOS and range of their gap-closers, anyway. We are not mages, we have a different toolset to work with, and it will get even more different come Mists. But fine, it's too late to argue over here. I think Demonic Circle is more than appropriate for its function, having it wiping Stuns would be too powerful.

[darthades]

I think is not an issue about DC:T being bad, but about blink being retarded overpowered, 15 seconds cooldown + gap opener + stun/root break on a class like mage, that already have everything they need in PvP and then some more. But it is useless talking about mages being OP in PvP because they never get nerfed, they always receive "compensations" for negative changes that end up worst than in the first place. So complaining about mages in PvP is counterproductive lol.

[Holtzmann]

Hey, if you want to complain about Blink being overpowered, be my guest! I played a Mage all through this expansion and I'll agree with you 100%! But just because Blink is overpowered, doesn't mean Demonic Circle needs to be, too. It's an entirely different matter.

And yeah... Blink isn't going to get changed. At least we can take solace on the fact the Mage is still slowed after Blinking. We aren't. :P

[Deleted]

slowed after blink vs teleport not breaking stuns ? anytime.

i get your point though, but the game is also about balancing skills (abilities, not player skills)

[Deleted]

Locks in various comps, are melting the arena ladders atm. If pvp is balanced around 3v3, then buffs is the last thing they need atm, when things like dks or hunters are at the bottom.

[Frinkles]

Locks in various comps, are melting the arena ladders atm. If pvp is balanced around 3v3, then buffs is the last thing they need atm, when things like dks or hunters are at the bottom.

While I do agree to some extent to this. The lack of defensive abilities+ the easiness we are locked down+ our lack of "real dmg" can really take a toll on many many players Rather than a buff, a re-tweaking of the class was/is needed a re-tweaking that I think is taking place with MoP.

We don't get the free-stun breaker (unless you talent for it) But we do get unique defensive cds, looking at you Unending resolve.

What I am saying is balancing is more than just looking at one particular ability (atleast I think so?) when a rogue can essentially drop you from full hp to 0% in a single kidney with full cata gear on you and demon armor, it might seem incredibly OP, yet if you consider that that rogue won't be able to cc not even half as well as you nor, will he be able to kill 3 ppl at the same time...

[Holtzmann]

slowed after blink vs teleport not breaking stuns ? anytime.

i get your point though, but the game is also about balancing skills (abilities, not player skills)

It's also about balancing skill sets. Demonic Circle does not need to break stuns because our toolbox is less based around straight-up evasion and more about control and positioning, and we are already balanced with what we have (and we'll have more come Mists). Yes, that means we will eat more stuns than a Mage does. It's a fact of life. Hell, you could make the argument that Disengage needs a stun-breaker much more easily than one for Demonic Circle.

[Cempa]

To use a portal you have to first put it down, assuming arena that is not an issue because the physical space is so small, but go out of arena and into RBG and it all changes since it is objective based PvP!

In objective based PvP you go after objectives which would mean constant long distance movement, so unless you want to waste valuable time used to fear and pressure running around to high and out of the way areas to place your portal, the portal will go down at or near the point your sub team engages the next PvP objective.

Stable ---> Lumber Mill ----> Black Smith ----> Gold Mine---->

Unlike arena which most players pretty much have a favorite portal location or two, RBG sometimes you have BS and sometimes you have Farm and yes you can take a few seconds to go indoors and hide a portal or behind a building to hide a portal but most times you are needed to instantly fear and pressure.

Why on Earth would you portal out of line of site of your healer!

It is clear Portal was balanced at a time Blizzard ignored anything that is not arena.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 10:32 AM ----------

x axis argument seems to not be valid.

I place my Portal above a hill, requiring two jump to get to it and go down, a warrior jumps me, I portal he can charge me even though LoS is broken.

Warrior can charge around corners of buildings to reach my portal.

Rogues can shadow steps and DK can pull me right back down.

[painweaver]

[/COLOR]

To use a portal you have to first put it down, assuming arena that is not an issue because the physical space is so small, but go out of arena and into RBG and it all changes since it is objective based PvP!

In objective based PvP you go after objectives which would mean constant long distance movement, so unless you want to waste valuable time used to fear and pressure running around to high and out of the way areas to place your portal, the portal will go down at or near the point your sub team engages the next PvP objective.

Stable ---> Lumber Mill ----> Black Smith ----> Gold Mine---->

Unlike arena which most players pretty much have a favorite portal location or two, RBG sometimes you have BS and sometimes you have Farm and yes you can take a few seconds to go indoors and hide a portal or behind a building to hide a portal but most times you are needed to instantly fear and pressure.

Why on Earth would you portal out of line of site of your healer!

It is clear Portal was balanced at a time Blizzard ignored anything that is not arena.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 10:32 AM ----------

x axis argument seems to not be valid.

I place my Portal above a hill, requiring two jump to get to it and go down, a warrior jumps me, I portal he can charge me even though LoS is broken.

Warrior can charge around corners of buildings to reach my portal.

Rogues can shadow steps and DK can pull me right back down.

Finally, someone that gets it! Except they still ignore anything that is not arena...