Page 24 of 46 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
34
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Going to be honest with that stand your ground law I'm sure hes going to get off these charges
    Well, technically being on someone's property without permission is trespassing. If the guy had signs up saying "No Trespassing" then the salesman was in the wrong for being on the property in the first place. That said, the salesman wasn't in any way threatening the accused killer, so "I was in fear" has no bearing in a court of law when his life was not at all threatened.

  2. #462
    I bet if we could bring the people from the past to now who made / developed guns. They would be sick to there stomache at all the mindless gun use / crimes used with them. If i helped make somthing what was used in this stupid way id be so ashamed... :/ that poor man and his family.. i mean.. if there was 3 signs it still dont excuse the actions the man took. How does he get his post? or how to people deliver things? he signs there paper work with a bullet to there face? -.-

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonX View Post
    So what if he was scared of sales people which is highly unlikely and bordering on slightly ridiculous, how is that anyone justification for killing him?
    Maybe he realized he isnt stable and put up those no trespassing signs to protect and warn people not to step on his property.

    If the salesmen never stepped on his property would he be alive today? Time to start giving some accountability to everyone involved.

  4. #464
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    579
    So many people in this thread sound like they wished nothing had changed since the wild western movies... Like the only way to live is to come out guns blazing, and pity anyone who gets in your way, and then say you where in your right to shoot the little cup scout girl because the cookie-box could have been a bomb sent there by random gangsters to hurt your family that desperately needs your protection all the time from imaginary dangers.

    No really that's actually how some of you sound.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    I'm just wondering how anybody in the US is ever going to receive their mail if the postmen have to fear getting killed when they set foot into your yard...

    I simply find all the craziness about weapons in the US a tad bit strange. But I guess it has to appear weird to a European. I'd call people crazy if they told me "Hey, I have this gun and that rifle at my house." Seriously... That something like that is normal in the US is one of the reasons why I don't particularly feel the need to go on holiday there.
    We have something in Canada call the Mailbox, where everyone on a street can walk to and get their mail with a key issued by the postal service. The funny thing is that there are still parts of my city that don't have mail boxes and the post office delivers them door to door.

  6. #466
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Maybe he realized he isnt stable and put up those no trespassing signs to protect and warn people not to step on his property.

    If the salesmen never stepped on his property would he be alive today? Time to start giving some accountability to everyone involved.
    Yes it's the salesmans fault for not realising that "no trespassing" actually meant "I'm insane and I have 14 guns, and I will kill you for doing your job" though the sign would have to be bigger and you would probably get shot while reading it.

    Your need to justify this mans actions are getting amazingly desperate.
    It's always been Wankershim!
    My Brand!

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Maybe he realized he isnt stable and put up those no trespassing signs to protect and warn people not to step on his property.

    If the salesmen never stepped on his property would he be alive today? Time to start giving some accountability to everyone involved.
    If he realized he wasn't stable he shouldn't carry a gun with him.

    Your situation makes it worse for him, as he had a concealed permit, meaning if he knew he was unstable he could have "snapped" out in public with the gun.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Maybe he realized he isnt stable and put up those no trespassing signs to protect and warn people not to step on his property.

    If the salesmen never stepped on his property would he be alive today? Time to start giving some accountability to everyone involved.
    In which case he should have surrendered his firearms to authorities and seeked medical help, which, in turn, would have stopped him buying firearms legally again until he was cleared for his 'instability'.

  9. #469
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    255
    If a person withdraws from physical contact, stand your ground is void. The salesman also never showed threat of force, which is another requirement. Seeing as there was a witness as well who clearly says the salesman was non-confrontational, he'll get charged with probably second degree murder, although they'll go for first, but I don't know if they'll prove premeditation.

    With regards to no trespassing signs, just having a sign that says "No trespassing" isn't enough. In Florida, its not trespassing if you don't know who the land belongs to. The sign must have the property owner's name (pretty common in a lot of states). Also in Florida, signs must warn of any danger associated with trespassing. So in either case, the old man was in the wrong and had a misguided image of what he believed was in his right to do.

    And before it comes up, if threat of force wasn't a requirement, you could shoot anyone that looked at you wrong for fear that they might shoot you first.

  10. #470
    Mechagnome NeonX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    668
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Maybe he realized he isnt stable and put up those no trespassing signs to protect and warn people not to step on his property.

    If the salesmen never stepped on his property would he be alive today? Time to start giving some accountability to everyone involved.
    If he had such a realisation and wanted to protect people he would have sought professional help and realised he can't trust himself around guns.

    This is quite the ridiculous suggestion though.

  11. #471
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,773
    Of course that idiot deserves a severe punishment. But to be fair, after so many news reports from Florida I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone living there anymore. You have the option to move from that state, and people still choose to stay. I wouldn't live there for anything. It'd be an everyday gamble, people might eat your face or shoot you any day. :I

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodon View Post
    Yes it's the salesmans fault for not realising that "no trespassing" actually meant "I'm insane and I have 14 guns, and I will kill you for doing your job" though the sign would have to be bigger and you would probably get shot while reading it.

    Your need to justify this mans actions are getting amazingly desperate.
    Who is the salesmen to define what "no trespassing" means on property other than his? No means no, just like in the rape cases. If it says no trespassing you dont go on the property without surrendering your rights.

    And you say im desperate when your not exercising common sense

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Who is the salesmen to define what "no trespassing" means on property other than his?
    He didn't. The law does that already, and it doesn't grant the right to gun someone down.

  14. #474
    florida law regarding guns:

    rule 1: cardio

    rule 2: double tap

    ...

  15. #475
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Who is the salesmen to define what "no trespassing" means on property other than his? No means no, just like in the rape cases. If it says no trespassing you dont go on the property without surrendering your rights.

    And you say im desperate when your not exercising common sense
    I have a feeling that your version of common sense is something I'm incapable of using, thankfully. You're points have been argued down many times in this thread and yet you still use the same justifications, just worded differently. Are you now saying that breaking the law revokes a persons right to live?

    And as Spectral stated, the law defines what "no trespassing" means, not the salesman or the man putting up the signs. It doesn't mean you can kill a person for trespassing if they don't pose a real threat, and nothing about the situation constituted a threat to any sane person.

    And before you pull the Castle Doctrine reasoning again, it can only be used when there is a real threat of physical harm or death. Witnesses have stated that the salesman displayed no threatening behaviour before the first shot and the second one was done when he couldn't even defend himself, let alone attack the gun owner, and therefore the Castle Doctrine doesn't apply here.
    Last edited by Theodon; 2012-07-28 at 08:57 PM.
    It's always been Wankershim!
    My Brand!

  16. #476
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Who is the salesmen to define what "no trespassing" means on property other than his? No means no, just like in the rape cases. If it says no trespassing you dont go on the property without surrendering your rights.

    And you say im desperate when your not exercising common sense
    Well you just said it... How is he to know? if the sign doesn't clearly state what the consequences of trespassing are, how is he suppose to know? And since that couldn't possible be the case here to anyone but the owner, the sign was lacking information.

    I can't have a sign that says - no! - and kill anyone that i see, because to me the meaning of a sign that says - no! - equals that i can kill them if they are close enough to read the sign.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    He didn't. The law does that already, and it doesn't grant the right to gun someone down.
    Some would argue in florida it does. The law says what it does and its now up to the judge to interpret it.

    The shot to the head will be tough to defend but ive seen worse get away.

    "Well you just said it... How is he to know? "

    No means no, its pretty clear. Do you also ignore warning labels on medications and power tools?
    Last edited by chadwix; 2012-07-28 at 08:57 PM.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Some would argue in florida it does.
    Some people are ignorant enough to argue just about anything. That's not actually an argument though.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    We have something in Canada call the Mailbox, where everyone on a street can walk to and get their mail with a key issued by the postal service. The funny thing is that there are still parts of my city that don't have mail boxes and the post office delivers them door to door.
    What you got mailboxes with a lock on them atleast in scandinavia we can trust our neigbours enough to have it standing in the middle of the street WITHOUT being lockt. weird ? maybe ppl in other countrys need to learn the diffrence btw yours and my loot

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Some people are ignorant enough to argue just about anything. That's not actually an argument though.
    The state laws in the book would disagree with you. Im sure living in DC you have brushed up on florida law and arent just talking out of your butt

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •