Do you believe in ghosts/spirits? Have you ever encountered one?

[zorkuus]

Ok, now this really is just head banging against a brick wall. I'm not a person in a mental hospital even though you seem to think that.

I didn't even imply so. It's called an analogy, an example. Don't you be trying to make a straw man here.

If you have some odd reason to question everything you see, then it is your problem, not others.

And why do you think questioning things is so bad (a problem as you say) as opposed to not questioning them? Again I ask: weren't you the one who preached about open-mindedness?

[Deleted]

I don't believe specifically in ghosts, but I don't not believe either. I know that I can never be sure of anything in life. my working, day to day belief is that there is no such thing as paranormal activity, but after reading existential philosophy I won't rule anything out entirely. we can never, ever be sure about anything because all we have to go on is our very flawed perception of reality. the only thing I can ever be sure of is: there exists a perception. to those who have seen a ghost, the experience is as real as the science you've seen disproving it and no amount of proof and/or evidence can unexperience it for them.

[Matru]

People used to get shits and giggles for burning and torturing people who explored wacky, unfounded ideas such as bullshit like 'gravity', 'the world is round' and 'the earth orbits the sun not the other way around'.

Why is it so hard for people to at least keep an open mind on things these days? :P

The whole supernatural and ghost or unexplained occurances has been going on for a long time, I'd actually like more scientific exploration into these things to explain things rather than just amatuer speculation, cynicism and general disbelief and an unwillingness to accept anything that is currently unknown.

The fact that these sightings and stories have been around for so long further suggests how ludicrous they are.
Ghost sightings, spirits, after death experiences, they've all been around for thousands of years, and none of these cannot be explained by hallucinations, physics or light tricks. After all these years, wouldn't there at least be some tangible evidence of their existence?

And furthermore, if there were ghosts, why wouldn't they show themselves completely to their mourning loved ones? Assure them they were fine, or otherwise.

Ghosts and spirits is even more ludicrous than alien abductions, at least those can theoretically happen, as there's a big chance there is intelligent life out there. I'm not saying I believe people have been abducted, but at least it's more realistic.

[Deleted]

And why do you think questioning things is so bad (a problem as you say) as opposed to not questioning them? Again I ask: weren't you the one who preached about open-mindedness?

Yes, but open mindedness is a different thing than me not being able to say if i see something that is clear as a day. Again, i am not stupid to not to know that people can hallucinate and see things in a blink of an eye. But i say it again even if i know it's futile: If you stand in front of me ten meters away from me in bright day light, i have no doubt at all that you are there in front of me. I would question a reflection, odd fog swirling around, cranking house, abnormal weather phenomenal and so on, but a something that is a height of a man in bright summer day and me not being medicated, drunk or tired is something that i do not need to question.

[Sinistrorsey]

Lol this is a joke

[Darkfie1d]

Nope, nope, and nope. Moving on...

I did see UFOs a couple of time, but they were objects as far as I know. I do not believe in paranormal stuff, it's another ruse carefully implemented by theists to pander to the fear of unknown. That is of course my opinion, but hey seeing is believing. Brain is a curious thing sometimes it shows you the things you don't normally see.

[Deleted]

Yes, but open mindedness is a different thing than me not being able to say if i see something that is clear as a day. Again, i am not stupid to not to know that people can hallucinate and see things in a blink of an eye.

An hallucination does not rely on your senses, it is all in the brain. Unlike an Illusion, hallucination doesn't need any of your senses do be working.

A dream is the most common hallucination. you experience it every night, although you forget most of it.

So yeah, hallucinations seem very real. when they happen.

[jahasafrat]

I don't believe in ghosts or spirits. There is always an explanation for the strange things that happen. And on top of all the crazy natural phenomena that can happen, the human brain is more than capable of fabricating things that weren't actually there.

[Deleted]

Anyone who believes in spirits/ghosts or whatever bullshit is either wrong, lying, insane, or simply too ignorant to understand the implications.

Stop it.

Do you understand how our consciousness has come about? Brain, electrical signals, firing neurons, all that jazz? You think a ghost has that? What space does a ghost occupy? Are they on another plane of existance that coexists on top of, or throughout ours? How could we detect it? You mean it's not detectable?

I'm thoroughly of the notion that if it's unseeable and immeasurable it doesn't exist. Ghosts do not exist. The human brain can do funny things, and memory's are flaky and silly and inaccurate, especially after long periods of time. That's how all this haunted house shit comes about for the most part.

No ghosts. None. Stop it.

[Deleted]

Anyone who believes in spirits/ghosts or whatever bullshit is either wrong, lying, insane, or simply too ignorant to understand the implications.

Stop it.

Do you understand how our consciousness has come about? Brain, electrical signals, firing neurons, all that jazz? You think a ghost has that? What space does a ghost occupy? Are they on another plane of existance that coexists on top of, or throughout ours? How could we detect it? You mean it's not detectable?

I'm thoroughly of the notion that if it's unseeable and immeasurable it doesn't exist. Ghosts do not exist. The human brain can do funny things, and memory's are flaky and silly and inaccurate, especially after long periods of time. That's how all this haunted house shit comes about for the most part.

No ghosts. None. Stop it.

No, you stop it. I am intelligent and sane enough to make observations and logical conclusions if something i witness is true or not. People like you throw out questions of how could it be possible to measure something or access another plane of existence. Well, i have no freaking clue, but it doesn't mean than there couldn't be a very very very very very slight change of it being possible. And if these things are true, how do we know that we wont access them in the future. Or it might also be so that accessing those places simply IS impossible in carbon based physical form.

I have nothing against your opinions, but i just hate when people are bashing others for no good reason.

[Deleted]

No, you stop it. I am intelligent and sane enough to make observations and logical conclusions if something i witness is true or not. People like you throw out questions of how could it be possible to measure something or access another plane of existence. Well, i have no freaking clue, but it doesn't mean than there couldn't be a very very very very very slight change of it being possible. And if these things are true, how do we know that we wont access them in the future. Or it might also be so that accessing those places simply IS impossible in carbon based physical form.

I have nothing against your opinions, but i just hate when people are bashing others for no good reason.

If you're gonna be so insistant on maintaining your opinion in it's current form I highly disagree with this part of your post. While I'm not trying to be an asshole (it comes naturally) I cannot take anyone seriously who believes in the supernatural, the metaphysical. It's not real. It can't be explained in theory, it can't be explained in practice, in life, it's always in the form of anecdotal evidence or a poor camera's lens reflection.

Your senses are weird. Your body is weird. Your brain is weird. You don't even understand them fully (nor do I, merely stating we don't know everything about ourselves, mostly our minds) so before you put weird experiences down to unxplainable and frankly incredibly dull overused ghost stories, maybe consider their might be a more logical and less batshit insane explanation.

[Dezerte]

No, you stop it. I am intelligent and sane enough to make observations and logical conclusions if something i witness is true or not. People like you throw out questions of how could it be possible to measure something or access another plane of existence. Well, i have no freaking clue, but it doesn't mean than there couldn't be a very very very very very slight change of it being possible. And if these things are true, how do we know that we wont access them in the future. Or it might also be so that accessing those places simply IS impossible in carbon based physical form.

I have nothing against your opinions, but i just hate when people are bashing others for no good reason.

We aren't bashing you, we're questioning your opinion. And with good reason.

It's true that there is no "absolute truth", but does this mean you should be gullible to believe everything you hear? I don't know if it has to do with intelligence, but critical thinking is the key ingredient if you want to make logical rationalisations. If you still don't agree with me, fine. But if that's the case I'll say this: I care more about what's true or false, you do not. I think caring about what's true or false is important not only to me but to the well being of society, so therefore I will question people who does not hold this belief. And if you don't want your opinion to be open to critcism, keep it to yourself.

I urge you to look up optical illusions and how they work, they are the perfect example of how our mind plays tricks on us.

[Ashnazg]

Do you understand how our consciousness has come about? Brain, electrical signals, firing neurons, all that jazz? You think a ghost has that? What space does a ghost occupy? Are they on another plane of existance that coexists on top of, or throughout ours? How could we detect it? You mean it's not detectable?

I'm thoroughly of the notion that if it's unseeable and immeasurable it doesn't exist.

Huh, I guess all the subatomic particles are a pretty recent creation then, since they didn't exist before 19th century.

The attitude of "if it can't be seen or measured it doesn't exist" is kind of complete bullshit, since time and time again it was proven wrong by science. Our methods evolve, and so does our understanding of the world around us, which leads to new theories being created all the time, and new things being detected and measured all the time.

That said, I believe that humans experience effects that they refer to as ghost sightings (in other words I don't think everyone who claims to have paranormal effects is a liar), but I also think that most of them can be directly attributed to energy and environment interacting with a delicate machine we call human brain. (Electromagnetic energy and infrasound are the most likely culprits). Other than that, nerves and sensory deprivation are also big factors. So its possible for a place to be "haunted" in a way - to have such a strong EM footprint or infrasound vibration that it unnerves everyone around it and makes them flip out. But for human "souls" to linger in place? Well that would require the soul to exist, which I strongly disbelieve.

[Deleted]

We aren't bashing you, we're questioning your opinion. And with good reason.

It's true that there is no "absolute truth", but does this mean you should be gullible to believe everything you hear? I don't know if it has to do with intelligence, but critical thinking is the key ingredient if you want to make logical rationalisations. If you still don't agree with me, fine. But if that's the case I'll say this: I care more about what's true or false, you do not. I think caring about what's true or false is important not only to me but to the well being of society, so therefore I will question people who does not hold this belief. And if you don't want your opinion to be open to critcism, keep it to yourself.

I urge you to look up optical illusions and how they work, they are the perfect example of how our mind plays tricks on us.

I do not believe everything i hear and i know what optical illusions are

And i am open to critisism, it's not that. But you have understand that there is a big difference in a reflection on a window and seeing something clearly in front of you few meters away. That's the main reason i'm still writing in this thread. I do not think that you will believe me and i'm fine with that. I am just clearly stating that i have seen something, and i'm not saying it's a ghost, that wasn't foggy or blurry. What ever i saw 5 times was as clearly in front of me as a normal person would be. Even though you do not believe me, you have to understand that whether or not it was a hallucination, it was pretty convincing to me.

[Deleted]

Huh, I guess all the subatomic particles are a pretty recent creation then, since they didn't exist before 19th century.

The existance of sub-atomic particles was theorised long before they were discovered. The effects of such particles was also measured, or observed, again, long before they were proven to exist. I won't pretend to know much of the history of science but most things that have been 'discovered' in the field lately have been understood to most-likely-exist we've just lacked the tech to prove it.

I'm not so closed-minded to require proof of everything I percieve before I agree it exists, but the rule of 'unobservable and immeasurable = no existy' works quite soundly in relation to crackpot ghost stories.

[Dezerte]

I do not believe everything i hear and i know what optical illusions are

And i am open to critisism, it's not that. But you have understand that there is a big difference in a reflection on a window and seeing something clearly in front of you few meters away. That's the main reason i'm still writing in this thread. I do not think that you will believe me and i'm fine with that. I am just clearly stating that i have seen something, and i'm not saying it's a ghost, that wasn't foggy or blurry. What ever i saw 5 times was as clearly in front of me as a normal person would be. Even though you do not believe me, you have to understand that whether or not it was a hallucination, it was pretty convincing to me.

I understand that there are people who believe in this stuff, I don't think you are lying. However I think you are mistaken, it can be explained but you don't want to come to terms with that for some reason. Why?

If you don't know what it is you saw you look it up on credible sources. You don't leap to conclusions, you try and find out what it was and how it can be explained. If you can understand optical illusions and how they work then I think you're already half-way there, you just need to read about it some more I think.

Here's some reading material:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...ife/ghost3.htm
http://www.cracked.com/article_18828...sightings.html

[Deleted]

I do not believe everything i hear and i know what optical illusions are

You can be as convinced as you like by the event but you also have to understand that you did not see a ghost. If you think you did you are wrong. It's just sad that people are so easily swayed by so little to believe in their little fairy tales simply because they want to believe there's something after death, or their loved ones that have died still exist in some form.

I'm not really arguing against you, I have nothing against you, I just think you're wrong. I just get angry with such opinions because they enable things like crackpot psychics and mediums and whatever other scam artist that makes money off've lies and tricks and pseudo-psychology. People have TV shows that revolve around telling crying parents their dead child is trying to contact them from beyond the grave. It's sick and it's wrong and I'm just a bit let down by humanity that a decent-sized majority buy in to that shit.

I ramble. Rant over.

[Ashnazg]

The existance of sub-atomic particles was theorised long before they were discovered. The effects of such particles was also measured, or observed, again, long before they were proven to exist. I won't pretend to know much of the history of science but most things that have been 'discovered' in the field lately have been understood to most-likely-exist we've just lacked the tech to prove it.

~30 years before, yeah. For the longest time before 19th century everyone was quite happy to accept the Greek model of an Atom being the smallest particle. So not really. The things that were "understood" to most likely exist were very basic, foundational items in science. The more complicated concepts - bacteria / viri in biology, subatomic particles in physics, etc, only came about in the last ~200 years. We simply had not the tools to observe the more sophisticated and complex concepts, to even discover that there was anything to theorize about there.

[Deleted]

~30 years before, yeah. For the longest time before 19th century everyone was quite happy to accept the Greek model of an Atom being the smallest particle. So not really. The things that were "understood" to most likely exist were very basic, foundational items in science. The more complicated concepts - bacteria / viri in biology, subatomic particles in physics, etc, only came about in the last ~200 years. We simply had not the tools to observe the more sophisticated and complex concepts, to even discover that there was anything to theorize about there.

Was there a need to give credence to the existance of a particle smaller than an atom before it was theorised of? Before we began approaching the technology to prove it, to measure it, observe it, or observe it's effects, I'm not sure whether bothering as to it's existance or not changed anything at all. In fact I'm sure it didn't. I have a point in here somewhere but your contradicting me for no particular reason other than to be right is mildly irritating, so find it yourself.

[Ashnazg]

Was there a need to give credence to the existance of a particle smaller than an atom before it was theorised of? Before we began approaching the technology to prove it, to measure it, observe it, or observe it's effects, I'm not sure whether bothering as to it's existance or not changed anything at all. In fact I'm sure it didn't. I have a point in here somewhere but your contradicting me for no particular reason other than to be right is mildly irritating, so find it yourself.

Just saying that dumb sweeping generic statements are dumb, that's all.