Enemy Hp

[ddsad2212]

After doing some research i found no way to turn on my targets hp( as in the actual number not a bar), my question is, is there anyway to do this? I dont really mind just having a bar to show it, but personally id like to be able to see the number as well.
ty

[Deleted]

not as far as I am aware, though I may be wrong.

[Azrok-]

Considering how content scales to take into acount how many people are around, I don't think we will ever be able to show exact numbers as it would be really awkward to see mobs hps changing around on the fly like that.

We could have a % showing though.

[iCandy]

Considering how content scales to take into acount how many people are around, I don't think we will ever be able to show exact numbers as it would be really awkward to see mobs hps changing around on the fly like that.

We could have a % showing though.

agreed. Scaling eliminates the reason to have exact text HP. Percentage based HP would be nice for reference though.

[ddsad2212]

Yep forgot about that, showing the percent would be alot better, ty for the answers

[Lucky_]

agreed. Scaling eliminates the reason to have exact text HP. Percentage based HP would be nice for reference though.

In sPvP it would certainly be helpful to know which one of the potential targets has 12k hp and which has 24k. The choice of target becomes far more clear then.

Right now we get paper thin PCs even on competitive teams because of this obfuscation as there are very few ways of figuring who to target in terms of HP.
-incoming "this is skill" posters-

[DrakeWurrum]

In sPvP it would certainly be helpful to know which one of the potential targets has 12k hp and which has 24k. The choice of target becomes far more clear then.

Maybe that's why we can't see it. O_o

It's likely one of those "Play the game, not your UI" kind of things, as far as design perspective.

[rhandric]

In sPvP it would certainly be helpful to know which one of the potential targets has 12k hp and which has 24k. The choice of target becomes far more clear then.

Right now we get paper thin PCs even on competitive teams because of this obfuscation as there are very few ways of figuring who to target in terms of HP.
-incoming "this is skill" posters-

Irony coming from one who claims to have been a huge GW1 PvPer

There's certain information that, unless you're omniscient, you just won't know. Like who the enemy is targeting (not to bring up that argument again), how much health they have, how much armor they have...all you know is what you've seen done to them and by them.

[Lucky_]

Irony coming from one who claims to have been a huge GW1 PvPer

Not really. In GW1, the mechanic of identifying potential low max hp targets was fairly simple, you had either armor ignoring static damage attacks or you used attack and factored class armor in your head. As incoming damage was static and numbers were far more manageable (typically double digit hits and triple digit health), you noticed pretty fast in the fight that someone was on low max HP.

Add to this the fact that early probing of the enemy in average GvG match took between one and five minutes which would likely not die even once identified, it would just force enemy to yield ground due to pressure, whereas if you happen to hit a low hp target in GW2, it's dead in about five seconds (immobilize and burst) the comparison is severely flawed.

In addition to above in GW2 toughness is completely variable, health is completely variable and on top of that you have various buffs and debuffs which adjust incoming damage and healing. Finally the health bar is imprecise due to graphical clutter. And as mentioned above, duration of the actual fight is but a microscopic fraction of those in GW1.

[rezoacken]

In sPvP it would certainly be helpful to know which one of the potential targets has 12k hp and which has 24k. The choice of target becomes far more clear then.

Right now we get paper thin PCs even on competitive teams because of this obfuscation as there are very few ways of figuring who to target in terms of HP.
-incoming "this is skill" posters-

Yes this is skill.

Because it really is lol. Of course having HP shown facilitate the decision, obviously. So having something that is harder TO DO require, by definition, more skill.

Your team is supposed to judge how squishy a target is on the fly, remember it for the next battle and take advantage, not having an UI tell it to them.

That is for the same reason I'm against macros and UI mods (in PvP at least).

[Lucky_]

Yes this is skill.

Because it really is lol. Of course having HP shown facilitate the decision, obviously. So having something that is harder TO DO is, by definition, skill based.

Your team is supposed to judge how squishy a target is on the fly, remember it for the next battle and take advantage, not having an UI tell it to them.

By your extremely strange definition, playing a game that enables full friendly fire with no way to tell allies apart from enemies, while randomly turning your screen off to throw you off "skill based".

Point: it is, but it's also severely bad design because your skill lies not in fighting against the enemy, but in fighting against the game's interface. This is what is called "terrible design".


In our case, the "skill" lies in luck. If your first burst hits the guy with low health, you half way won. Essentially it's a "skill" comparable to one needed to win rock paper scissors.

[rhandric]

By your extremely strange definition, playing a game that enables full friendly fire with no way to tell allies apart from enemies, while randomly turning your screen off to throw you off "skill based".

Point: it is, but it's also severely bad design because your skill lies not in fighting against the enemy, but in fighting against the game's interface. This is what is called "terrible design".


In our case, the "skill" lies in luck. If your first burst hits the guy with low health, you half way won. Essentially it's a "skill" comparable to one needed to win rock paper scissors.

Or, it's design, such that burst isn't the way to win everything.

[rezoacken]

By your extremely strange definition, playing a game that enables full friendly fire with no way to tell allies apart from enemies, while randomly turning your screen off to throw you off "skill based".

Point: it is, but it's also severely bad design because your skill lies not in fighting against the enemy, but in fighting against the game's interface. This is what is called "terrible design".

Yes it would be terrible design, and a terrible game.

But GW2 is not like what you just described that so............ yeah whatever man. What you did is a logical fallacy that is very common on the internet (take something to the extreme, prove its wrong and then conclude the initial situation is wrong).

For example using the same logical fallacy, I could have said: If a game had a UI where you push a button and everything is done perfectly for you, then it would be a shitty game that is just playing the UI and dont require any skill.

In our case, the "skill" lies in luck. If your first burst hits the guy with low health, you half way won. Essentially it's a "skill" comparable to one needed to win rock paper scissors

That's a more reasonable way to prove a point and I get what you mean (well the rock/paper/scissors part is an over-exaggeration). Still I don't agree it's as big an "issue" as you described (certainly not "you half way won"). Meanwhile, most of the time, teams still have to have a good communication rather than rely on an UI facilitalte things. They also have to remember how squishy the other team is etc.

[Dodrin]

In sPvP it would certainly be helpful to know which one of the potential targets has 12k hp and which has 24k. The choice of target becomes far more clear then.

Right now we get paper thin PCs even on competitive teams because of this obfuscation as there are very few ways of figuring who to target in terms of HP.
-incoming "this is skill" posters-

I don't think you should know right off the bat who will be your focus target. That should be something you learn through trial and error.

I think they hidden nature of your opponents exact stats forces you to approach everyone in the same tentative manner, instead of know "oh, he has 14k HP, just gonna nuke him".

[DrakeWurrum]

I think they hidden nature of your opponents exact stats forces you to approach everyone in the same tentative manner, instead of know "oh, he has 14k HP, just gonna nuke him".

^essentially this

I think it forces you to be smarter about your choice beyond numbers.

Even if that player does have less HP, btw, it might be that they have enough Toughness, self-healing, and other defensive and controlling moves (e.g. a Guardian) that they would actually be harder to kill.

[Lucky_]

Yes it would be terrible design, and a terrible game.

But GW2 is not like what you just described that so............ yeah whatever man. What you did is a logical fallacy that is very common on the internet (take something to the extreme, prove its wrong and then conclude the initial situation is wrong).

For example using the same logical fallacy, I could have said: If a game had a UI where you push a button and everything is done perfectly for you, then it would be a shitty game that is just playing the UI and dont require any skill.

UI != AI. You're comparing apples and tractors. A proper "perfect UI" comparison would be UI that is completely intuitive and provides you with all necessary information so you can focus on the gameplay without having to think about details or counting in your head, because these are the things visible on the UI.

AI is algorithm(s) playing the game for you. I.e. "press one button to win".

Granted GW1 was known for minimalist UI, so you had to do things like count debuffs in your head while playing the game. That's one of the things what made top end players of certain classes stand above others. It was also stressing as hell, immensely repetitive and massively not fun. Having seen how I can have UI display the timers like in WoW that has my debuffs in different size from other people's debuffs instead of counting seconds in my head while counting enemy hex debuffs in my head to figure out which ones they remove is not fun. It's a vastly annoying, repetitive task that was necessary to be successful. It was also a task that made playing GW1 a chore and one game could have easily done without, and designers admitted to this when they updated the enemy cast bar to display instant skills and have a proper "memory" for both instant and castable enemy skills on UI. People simply didn't like the fact that game became too much like blind chess, where the main skill was repetitive memorization and counting seconds in your head for several skills at once.

In a perfect situation, UI should compliment the world to tell me exactly what's happening, so I can focus on the fun aspect of the game: gameplay. GW2 fails miserably in this regard, and while it's a design choice I strongly feel that they are stepping on the same rake they admitted to stepping in (and later partially fixed) in GW1. And it will hurt at least as much.


As for drake's statement above this, have you actually played sPvP? Because it doesn't matter whatsoever if 12k elementalist has any of the things you mentioned. You just wait his (possible) invulnerability out, immobilize him to make dodging impossible and blow him up. If you don't, you're a terrible player(s) because such glass cannons have massive burst of their own and need to be focused so that you do not die.

[Purple]

I'm pretty sure you don't want exact numbers on the bars to further reinforce their goal of keeping the player's eyes on the game.. not the UI. Let's add to that I've played a few MMOs that took this route, where they decided to keep specific numbers off the main interface for battle, keeping those exact numbers for back menus and character sheets.

In fact the less information on screen, the more unknowns, the better. I don't want people knowing a person's/target's exact Health with a click. I don't want them predicting builds ahead of time. I want them reacting to what the person is doing, not pushing the pre-decided battle tactics you see from most MMOs that put too much information up front - based on a bunch of number and silhouette clues presented just be seeing a person/target.

If you don't, you're a terrible player(s)

I really don't think this a helpful addition to the discussion.

[DrakeWurrum]

In a perfect situation, UI should compliment the world to tell me exactly what's happening, so I can focus on the fun aspect of the game: gameplay. GW2 fails miserably in this regard

Fully disagree with the bolded, as it's exactly what GW2 already does. It tells you exactly what's happening in the world and allows you to focus on the "fun" aspect of the game. What you're complaining about is that it doesn't give you perfectly flawless numerical representations of the world around you so that you can look at it from a perspective of omnipotence.

Numerical representations of the health of your enemy are not necessary to focusing on gameplay.

---------- Post added 2012-08-03 at 09:00 PM ----------

As for drake's statement above this, have you actually played sPvP? Because it doesn't matter whatsoever if 12k elementalist has any of the things you mentioned. You just wait his (possible) invulnerability out, immobilize him to make dodging impossible and blow him up. If you don't, you're a terrible player(s) because such glass cannons have massive burst of their own and need to be focused so that you do not die.

The reason I pointed that out is related to your (extremely unusual) complaint that damage is not flat. That there's things like Toughness and Protection and Regeneration and Aegis and all of that nonsense you brought up before. My point being that you can be hard to kill without being an HP sponge.

[Larynx]

Maybe that's why we can't see it. O_o

It's likely one of those "Play the game, not your UI" kind of things, as far as design perspective.

I agree with Drake. You should realize that X Player should be a focused target because X Player hurts like a bitch and thus is probably really squishy. It should be from actual in-game experiences instead of the UI.

[DrunkenBeard]

In a perfect situation, UI should compliment the world to tell me exactly what's happening.

Exactly, you just said it yourself : the UI should tell you what's happening. It should not tell you things you have no other way to know. When you buff yourself/others, or you/your enemy receives a debuff, you know it. The UI is merely showing what you already know for convenience. Someone's HP in the other hand is only known to him. If you want to call a priority target you need to go through what you would actually go through if you were a character inside that fantasy world :

1) You would have to determine the profession of the enemy and deduce the armor weight.
2) You would have to exchange some hits with your enemy to determine both what are some of his main abilities, some of the boons/conditions he applies and preferably what are his weapon combos.
2*) You would also have to conceal your own main abilities for a moment and try to throw you enemy off-track
3) You would have to compare the new information you got by messing around with the enemy with other popular builds for that profession and deduce what build he is most likely using (the more knowledgeable you are about that profession, the better)
4) You would have to react accordingly and hope that your predictions were right

At 3) you will have an estimation of your opponent's health, so most skilled player WILL have an idea on who's squishy and who needs to go down ASAP. If you're not able to go as far as 3) then you won't and you will have to take a guess. That's what's commonly known as a high skill cap. Now compare this to : "Gladius shows Balance Druid. Nuke him !". Playing the UI vs Actually fighting.