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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    So how do you play competitively in pve? I suppose I can see something like the challenge missions in GW where they had leader boards and all but that is about it that I can see.
    Within the context of GW2? I am not sure that is even necessary, though leaderboards would be obvious.

    Seems kind of irrational to expect all games to be alike, however. I understand some players enjoy raiding or playing a tank-- heck, I do. But transposing that to every other game or MMO seems rather... dull. Subjective, natch.

    It's okay for stuff to be different, to have different goals, etc, etc.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Within the context of GW2? I am not sure that is even necessary, though leaderboards would be obvious.

    Seems kind of irrational to expect all games to be alike, however. I understand some players enjoy raiding or playing a tank-- heck, I do. But transposing that to every other game or MMO seems rather... dull. Subjective, natch.

    It's okay for stuff to be different, to have different goals, etc, etc.
    I understand the differences and I agree with you about that. I just don't see or understand competitive pve, in any game.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am certain it would without the WoW reinforcement of those activities. Because ya'know, in the the MMOs before WoW where competitive PVE first took root there were no WORLD/SERVER FIRST banners on the screen, in-game achievement tracking and so on.

    Yet the pre-WoW PVE Competitive scene in games such as DAOC, EQ and so on were highly cutthroat and combative.

    What was awesome was how WoW & Warhammer [believe it or not] tapped into that communal desire to compete in often very challenging content that required a high amount of logistics and time commitment.

    But as a thing? Competitive PVE does not begin or end in World of Warcraft to any degree. Nor was Competitive PVE the result of developers "realized their content wasn't as fun as it should be".

    I understand you have an opinion. And that's awesome, I love to hear it. Though you are claiming some things that are like, factually untrue.
    You're right. It was fun back then because people made it fun and cutthroat. I guess my specifics are off regarding what I address. By adding their achievements, they broadened the spectrum of people looking for/at that, and normalized it. I haven't been around as long as the EQ era. I didn't mean to claim WoW or any current MMO and their "world first" achievement was the premise for everyone's competitive PvE nature. I think what I'm trying to say (I can't even remember anymore) was with this implementation, they make people focus on it more than it should be focused on, and that carries over in a negative way. What it has become seems less interesting than what it was, though I can't claim that.

    Though, I still fail to remember the main point of the competitive PvE thing that started this. Was it something about endgame not being there again? xD

    I didn't know we could define competitive PvE in a sense only relating to World Firsts, Top DPS, etc. I never thought of it that way because I was never into it enough to care. Oh well. I'm lost.

    Anyway, in a game that really pushes working together and helping one another, competing for whatever in the world would be completely out of place. The idea of competitive PvE makes no sense to me. PvP is more fun. Fact. Objective. *cough* The only "competitive PvE" I want to see is who is left alive to complete the dungeons in WvW, hehe.
    Last edited by WorldofWorkcraft; 2012-08-07 at 06:36 PM.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I understand the differences and I agree with you about that. I just don't see or understand competitive pve, in any game.
    Ah, I didn't pick up you were speaking in a more general sense.

    Well, let me ask you. What is the difference in competitive spirit in PVE environments than PVP?

    In PVE, we often form a specific team [let's call them guilds]. We often have a certain goal(s) in mind which are above the capacity of most other players. We also have a set of measurable data for those goals- completion time, damage, disables, threat actual and so on.

    Which rather importantly can be shared and compared to other teams [guilds] attempting the same set of feats.

    In a serious PVP environment the only difference would truly be, AI vs Player.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldofWorkcraft View Post
    You're right. It was fun back then because people made it fun and cutthroat. I guess my specifics are off regarding what I address. By adding their achievements, they broadened the spectrum of people looking for/at that, and normalized it.
    Oh I agree on that fully. In fact, I have quite a few things to say about how that normalization of what is a fringe concept hurt the genre as a whole.

    I don't think it was a good thing to push MMOs in that direction wholly. We got worse games, poor player expectation and what is a true stagnation of the genre.

    If you have been around as long as the EQ era, then I will assume you remember when MMOs came in more than just one rigid structure. Stab toes, stack here, now jump and spin twice.. ZzzzZZZzz

  5. #525
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    i dont rly care about competitive pve,but i must ask why do ppl are so worried about it not being so highlighted in GW2,GW1 was mainly PVP oriented and GW2 will proly lean more but im not saying theres no PVE in them.I played WoW from the beginning and still do,and i never rly had an urge for world firsts or realm firsts etc but hey thats me...but what happened with ppl playing the game for the game it self like back in the days with their friends from fun,and the gaming expirience,when everything wasnt so focused on rankings,these days ppl just rush trough the content and lvling without caring for the game so they can be "competitive" i dont see the fun in that rly and i like that GW2 is paced as it is leting u to play @ ur own desire and not focusing hardly on PVE leting u explore and goof around

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Oh I agree on that fully. In fact, I have quite a few things to say about how that normalization of what is a fringe concept hurt the genre as a whole.

    I don't think it was a good thing to push MMOs in that direction wholly. We got worse games, poor player expectation and what is a true stagnation of the genre.

    If you have been around as long as the EQ era, then I will assume you remember when MMOs came in more than just one rigid structure. Stab toes, stack here, now jump and spin twice.. ZzzzZZZzz
    Hey when did you become a Mod? Congrats xD

    My friend, when we talk about MMOs on the rare occasion, always brings up UO. He says it was so ridiculous and fun that when you died, you lost all your stuff, and how anyone could loot anything when it was killed regardless of who it was killed by. Granted, it was the only one he played, but you just won't find stuff like that anymore; at least...not mainstream. I played a 2D side-scroller called Odyssey Online [Classic] a long time ago. That was probably my first brush with online gaming...good times.

    WoW is fun, and was fun, and will still be fun for what it is. I'm hoping GW2 gives a new sense of fun and achievement and accomplishment that reinvigorates that feeling of a new game (which it should, as it is new).

  7. #527
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I still think the PvE in this game can be plenty competitive, just in different ways, and it won't be nearly as cutthroat or serious.

    The problem with competitive PvE is that it can quite quickly create a divide in the PvE side of the playerbase. You see it happen in WoW and other similar games, with hardcore vs casual, all the time. Between people who want to be at the cutting edge of skill, and those who simply are just enjoying the content and don't want to push themselves to the point where it feels like work.
    At least PvP comes with competition built-in, and if they want to make it into e-sport material, it's going to require that competitive nature.

    The way I see it, "competitive" is another word for pitting yourself against other players/people. Which then makes sense as to why ANet wants to keep that kind of play in the PvP side of the game.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-07 at 07:13 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #528
    Stood in the Fire yoomi's Avatar
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    Only competitive thing I can see.. is a battle about who looks the most awesome :3 Or who gets that legendary first..
    Not so much about dungeons and such because of their random nature. IMO. "Competitive" can be anything the player feels the need to compete in, might not be a race or anything for everyone but some might have their own competition going on, while you have your own, that's the way I see it

  9. #529
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    I'll definitely play GW2 and enjoy it, but there's really no substitute for raiding in WoW (imo).

  10. #530
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoomi View Post
    Only competitive thing I can see.. is a battle about who looks the most awesome :3 Or who gets that legendary first..
    Not so much about dungeons and such because of their random nature. IMO. "Competitive" can be anything the player feels the need to compete in, might not be a race or anything for everyone but some might have their own competition going on, while you have your own, that's the way I see it
    Pretty sure people could get competitive about running the dungeons or completing EDEs faster than everybody else.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
    I'll definitely play GW2 and enjoy it, but there's really no substitute for raiding in WoW (imo).
    And why is that, do you think?

    I genuinely curious about this. I've raided in WoW since BC, and the biggest enjoyment I get out of raiding is the sense of accomplishment. Having said that, the sense of accomplishment I felt was far greater in some of the BC heroics than in any of the Cataclysm raids. Difficulty of content is not inherently dictated by the size of the group required to take it on, that's a deliberate design decision.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
    I'll definitely play GW2 and enjoy it, but there's really no substitute for raiding in WoW (imo).
    This is exactly why I'm looking forward to GW2.

    Having a feeling of completion without the stress of raiding in a high end guild anymore is exactly what I'm looking forward to.

    I can't raid 5 days a week or even 2 days a week on farm content anymore. I've already got a job, I don't need a second one that doesn't even pay me. And that's essentially what raiding is. You pay a company to be somewhere with 24 other people at the same time, on the same days and if you call in sick you get replaced.

    Screw that.

  13. #533
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Who said GW2 is even trying to create a substitute for raiding?
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Who said GW2 is even trying to create a substitute for raiding?
    They aren't but for someone reason that answer is not acceptable to some people.

  15. #535
    Well, also consider sometimes folks are simply saying; "Hey, I like raiding/healing/mounts/dailies/whatever."

    They may not necessarily be saying GW2 must have those things. Only that they enjoy them and might look elsewhere. Yea, sometimes folks do come here to say, "no raidz? fail!!!!lol"

    Ignore that tripe.

  16. #536
    Stood in the Fire yoomi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Pretty sure people could get competitive about running the dungeons or completing EDEs faster than everybody else.
    Then those players will find that as a competition among those who find that thing competitive :P Which was my point. Who knows it can be good for community, to find something they are interested in, enjoy and have a strong passion for. Think about all the themed guilds or communities that can evolve out of it, of something a group of like minded people find interesting or fun. It might just not appeal to everyone. But at least the the possibilities are there, which I very much appreciate

  17. #537
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I just think that competition really is best left to WvW and sPvP.

    WvWvW especially fosters what I consider to be healthy, friendly competition.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  18. #538
    Stood in the Fire yoomi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I just think that competition really is best left to WvW and sPvP.

    WvWvW especially fosters what I consider to be healthy, friendly competition.
    Mm yeah I can agree on that, even tho I wish those "dungeon and EDE's race" competitive communities that may or may not form would not grow to be some kind of elitist jerks... it might very well happen. It might not :P But we never know until we have seen it happen. Its hard playing a fortune teller
    But yeah the possibilities for PvE competition is there in game, but maybe just not in the form people are used to. But I guess its up for those who want competition to find it on their own. And who knows maybe they find it most satisfying in WvW and/or PvP.

  19. #539
    All they have to do is create a REALLY hard encounter somewhere and the competitive PvE community will form. They're probably the easiest bunch of people to please, just give them something tuned to impossible and watch them chew on it for months.

  20. #540
    Stood in the Fire yoomi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    All they have to do is create a REALLY hard encounter somewhere and the competitive PvE community will form. They're probably the easiest bunch of people to please, just give them something tuned to impossible and watch them chew on it for months.
    über mode dungeon.

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