MoP RBG tanks

[Asatru]

As it currently is, if Warriors have to wait until they have 60 rage in order to even Shield Block...they will be sitting ducks for any melee. I've played quite a bit on the PTR (which has the new rage/tank mechanics) and it totally sucks in PVP.

[meathead]

As it currently is, if Warriors have to wait until they have 60 rage in order to even Shield Block...they will be sitting ducks for any melee. I've played quite a bit on the PTR (which has the new rage/tank mechanics) and it totally sucks in PVP.

i have been saying this the hole thread-ty for your info.i dislike how blizz changed rage again.they changed it headed into cata,ok fine.but this no rage from damage taken crap is lame.its energy not rage anymore.i think its just another way blizz is "nerfing" warriors.

[Raugnaut]

thats because its no longer rage,but rather energy.and really why do you hate anbraxis so much?i no nothing about him,by the sound of it you do.

Wait, Rage is energy? wut?

[Korgoth]

#1 Wish for Pandaland: Arms is a tier 1 pvp spec again, #2 Wish for Pandaland: Prot is completely useless in PVP and DKS have to flag carry or Rogues if such a thing could be possible.

Flag Carrying is the worst pvp in any game I've ever played, a whole lot of standing around waiting to get raped.

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 11:24 PM ----------

Wait, Rage is energy? wut?

Yeah Rage is not energy, Energy is just SPEND SPEND SPEND, Rage is now earn on ability earn on ability earn on white, spend spend spend. I'd much rather have energy now then this abortion.

If only Rift would hire away Greg Street.

[Greedybeaver]

wtf are you even talking about?i'm sure you andtyrean are the same person.i posted a video of tanks on beta,big fucking deal.post a better one.all you have done is talk shit.

aging i never said warriors will be the worst FC'ers in mop,i said they will not be the best L2R,big difference.you reall think monks will not the best tanks?

"all the Anbraxis Bandwagon Whiner Brigade can think about is that you don't generate rage as much in MoP. That's because.....wait for it...you don't need rage for hardly any abilities anymore! How can you not be excited about that?"

thats because its no longer rage,but rather energy.and really why do you hate anbraxis so much?i no nothing about him,by the sound of it you do.

i just figured it all out and im loling hard .the hole problem is you come in here talking like you know everything about wow's pvp.well i just looked you up on the armory and you have never hit 2k in rbgs or 1550 in arena,lmfao! good day to you troll

Stunning detective work, I dare say that clicking on my signature that links to my armory was a touch of brilliance. Say what you like, I've been to 1997 with just over a 2100 projected MMR. As I said before, I only play Prot, hence why I obviously don't give a shit about arena (WHAT DO YOU MEAN PROT PALLY PROT WARRIOR DOESNT WORK IN 2'S?!). I'm not hiding it, and I'm not ashamed either. I feel that is pretty good compared to 99% of the rest of the PvP populace, and that's with only starting a Warrior when Cata was released, and only getting into RBG's months into the start of the season.

Care to share your armory? You are obviously insinuating you are the most skilled person here.

As for your (or his?) videos, and that if I'm so good I should just go on and make my own videos, being the only one or one of few to do something doesn't make you an expert on the topic, and neither does it make a good cop-out as to why you/he think it's okay to spread your/his bad opinion/opinion about how to play a Prot Warrior terribly in the Beta, and into MoP. Eating shit because you ran out of food at your house wouldn't fly with most normal people, even if HEY ATLEAST I TRIED TO MAKE SOME FOOD.

You cited Anbraxis as a good go-to for what MoP will be like for Prot, I told you he is an idiot, and you claimed I was accusing you of say his quote of "Prot Warriors are worthless in MoP RBGs". I was repeating what he says in his videos, yet you take it incredibly personally...interesting.

I'm sorry, but rage is in no way energy now. Not even close.

Very, very few things can be taken from Anbraxis' videos as anything short of whiney diatribe. He looks at many skills at face value, uses a footrace as a factor into why you should choose one race over another (he's severely misrepresented Monks and DK's, they are much faster when played correctly), goes prot in next seasons gear that is terribly enchanted, gemmed, and reforged, and then sets up a truel between him and two buddies where he tries to spam one ability through stuns, without using an evasive maneuvers, stuns, trickets, fears, disarms, or anything a self respecting prot warrior trying to give an accurate assesment of MoP and the beta would do.

To answer your question, no I don't think Monks will be the best FC's.
-Do they have a strong mastery? Yes, but it is VERY strong, not just strong. Stronger than everyone else? Probably, but not having a shield and wearing leather hurts them in other ways.
-Do they have a lot of mobility? With no flag debuffs, yes. Have you ever tried to roll with a hamstring or poison on you? It's terrible. Every part of a warrior's mobility ignores slows regardless of stacks.
-Multiple types of CC and a strong silence? Sure thing, but then warrior with Gag Order glyph has 2 there, a talented aoe silence and interupt, a shockwave, and a fear.

Warriors have always been the swiss army knives of tanks, to the point that many people over the course of the game have complained about the number of buttons and choices compared to the other tanks. MoP is cutting down on the number of shitty buttons that didn't need to be seperate skills, but not taking ANYTHING away from warrior versatility.

It's going to take people months and months into the next PvP season to even get a Monk to 90 and get it in competitive gear for RBGs, and by then every good player with a Warrior, Blood DK, Prot Pally, or Druid FC is going to be far ahead of them. Sure there will be those outliers that push hard and get the first Monk to 90. Hell some of them might even die doing it. A smaller percentage of those people will play Brewmaster, even smaller so in PvP instead of PvE, and even less than that play it well compared to just pushing through at an average skill level.

All in all, contrary to unpopular belief, Prot Warrior PvP is just as promising before, except now we are looking into the horizon at a better talent tree, cool new talents, better fight mechanics, active mitigation responsibilities, new levels, new play dynamics, new BG/RBGs, and what I think is an ever increasing skill curve, which I welcome.

Edit: This is how you do a good review on a new mechanic. Notice how he breaks it down, and mentions how you have to *GASP*....change your playstyle?!?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJnlFWqi0w

[meathead]

#1 Wish for Pandaland: Arms is a tier 1 pvp spec again, #2 Wish for Pandaland: Prot is completely useless in PVP and DKS have to flag carry or Rogues if such a thing could be possible.

Flag Carrying is the worst pvp in any game I've ever played, a whole lot of standing around waiting to get raped.

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 11:24 PM ----------


Yeah Rage is not energy, Energy is just SPEND SPEND SPEND, Rage is now earn on ability earn on ability earn on white, spend spend spend. I'd much rather have energy now then this abortion.

If only Rift would hire away Greg Street.

yes i would love to see arm back to its former glory

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 08:27 PM ----------

Stunning detective work, I dare say that clicking on my signature that links to my armory was a touch of brilliance. Say what you like, I've been to 1997 with just over a 2100 projected MMR. As I said before, I only play Prot, hence why I obviously don't give a shit about arena (WHAT DO YOU MEAN PROT PALLY PROT WARRIOR DOESNT WORK IN 2'S?!). I'm not hiding it, and I'm not ashamed either. I feel that is pretty good compared to 99% of the rest of the PvP populace, and that's with only starting a Warrior when Cata was released, and only getting into RBG's months into the start of the season.

Care to share your armory? You are obviously insinuating you are the most skilled person here.

As for your (or his?) videos, and that if I'm so good I should just go on and make my own videos, being the only one or one of few to do something doesn't make you an expert on the topic, and neither does it make a good cop-out as to why you/he think it's okay to spread your/his bad opinion/opinion about how to play a Prot Warrior terribly in the Beta, and into MoP. Eating shit because you ran out of food at your house wouldn't fly with most normal people, even if HEY ATLEAST I TRIED TO MAKE SOME FOOD.

You cited Anbraxis as a good go-to for what MoP will be like for Prot, I told you he is an idiot, and you claimed I was accusing you of say his quote of "Prot Warriors are worthless in MoP RBGs". I was repeating what he says in his videos, yet you take it incredibly personally...interesting.

I'm sorry, but rage is in no way energy now. Not even close.

Very, very few things can be taken from Anbraxis' videos as anything short of whiney diatribe. He looks at many skills at face value, uses a footrace as a factor into why you should choose one race over another (he's severely misrepresented Monks and DK's, they are much faster when played correctly), goes prot in next seasons gear that is terribly enchanted, gemmed, and reforged, and then sets up a truel between him and two buddies where he tries to spam one ability through stuns, without using an evasive maneuvers, stuns, trickets, fears, disarms, or anything a self respecting prot warrior trying to give an accurate assesment of MoP and the beta would do.

To answer your question, no I don't think Monks will be the best FC's.
-Do they have a strong mastery? Yes, but it is VERY strong, not just strong. Stronger than everyone else? Probably, but not having a shield and wearing leather hurts them in other ways.
-Do they have a lot of mobility? With no flag debuffs, yes. Have you ever tried to roll with a hamstring or poison on you? It's terrible. Every part of a warrior's mobility ignores slows regardless of stacks.
-Multiple types of CC and a strong silence? Sure thing, but then warrior with Gag Order glyph has 2 there, a talented aoe silence and interupt, a shockwave, and a fear.

Warriors have always been the swiss army knives of tanks, to the point that many people over the course of the game have complained about the number of buttons and choices compared to the other tanks. MoP is cutting down on the number of shitty buttons that didn't need to be seperate skills, but not taking ANYTHING away from warrior versatility.

It's going to take people months and months into the next PvP season to even get a Monk to 90 and get it in competitive gear for RBGs, and by then every good player with a Warrior, Blood DK, Prot Pally, or Druid FC is going to be far ahead of them. Sure there will be those outliers that push hard and get the first Monk to 90. Hell some of them might even die doing it. A smaller percentage of those people will play Brewmaster, even smaller so in PvP instead of PvE, and even less than that play it well compared to just pushing through at an average skill level.

All in all, contrary to unpopular belief, Prot Warrior PvP is just as promising before, except now we are looking into the horizon at a better talent tree, cool new talents, better fight mechanics, active mitigation responsibilities, new levels, new play dynamics, new BG/RBGs, and what I think is an ever increasing skill curve, which I welcome.

Edit: This is how you do a good review on a new mechanic. Notice how he breaks it down, and mentions how you have to *GASP*....change your playstyle?!?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJnlFWqi0w

i came back to wow half way threw cata.i have always been arms,but when i came back had a huge surprise,arms straight up sucked.so i had to go prot for the very first time ever.i was able to hit 2199 rbg "no joke" 3 times.did not even do any arena outside a few double dps 2's just to help cap "1850ish or so".being so limited pvp being a warrior there was nothign else to do,so i left the game a few months ago.i would link you my profile but its inactive so no1 can see it.

im glad to see you actually link a video instead of talking shit and calling me Anbraxis,who your butthurt over for some reason?why did'nt you just do that in the first place,like i did and answer the OP questions.

by the way the video you posted was from back in July.like i said its a nice video but rage regen has been nerfed again since then.and yes rage is like energy now.

[Hand Banana]

Dont argue with him he doesnt actually read you write he just looks for any way to sneak in a counter-argument.

Mop wars will be fine as tanks their mobility is great and their utility is up. Multiple stuns, ranged silence, tons of instant mobility, far too strong self-heal when low, not really seeing what the issue here is. Not saying they will be dominant but if second wind stays like it is they will definetely be a top contender.

[Asatru]

Flag Carrying is the worst pvp in any game I've ever played, a whole lot of standing around waiting to get raped.

I actually found Flag Carrying to be the most fun I've ever had on my Warrior. A truly fearless Warrior will grab the enemy flag so he's guaranteed to be targeted. The MoP rage mechanic (or should I say, the copy/pasted runic power mechanic) completely kills Flag Carrying as a whole. In order to hit shield block as SOME form of counter against melee, you need 60% of your entire rage pool (which takes ass long to build up.) So if you're sitting in your flag room waiting to cap and a rogue/feral pops out of knowhere with 5+ stacks, you're gibbed.

[Schamane]

I actually found Flag Carrying to be the most fun I've ever had on my Warrior. A truly fearless Warrior will grab the enemy flag so he's guaranteed to be targeted. The MoP rage mechanic (or should I say, the copy/pasted runic power mechanic) completely kills Flag Carrying as a whole. In order to hit shield block as SOME form of counter against melee, you need 60% of your entire rage pool (which takes ass long to build up.) So if you're sitting in your flag room waiting to cap and a rogue/feral pops out of knowhere with 5+ stacks, you're gibbed.

So whats the point now?

Due to some comments i tend to assume that warrior is as mobile as before yet to say the most mobile one under pressure, especially goblins but monks and dk have more self heals and in addition monks are more mobile than dks? Skill lvl will be higher for warriors due to the need of stancedancing once again and rage management.
So generally speaking monks will be the best overall package?

So we can say that warriors will not be excluded like paladins and dks right now (as russians mostly prefer feral tanks due to whatever reason) but warriors will be just one choice and not THE must have.

If you an skip rogues in your line up, due to the decision between prep and shs ( i dont want to play with a rogue without double smoke as their overall dmg is rather low and most rogues tend to ignore peeling and control ) you can stay with a warrior?! against caster set ups without a rogue i rank spellreflect very high.

what about paladin and druid?

[meathead]

Dont argue with him he doesnt actually read you write he just looks for any way to sneak in a counter-argument.

Mop wars will be fine as tanks their mobility is great and their utility is up. Multiple stuns, ranged silence, tons of instant mobility, far too strong self-heal when low, not really seeing what the issue here is. Not saying they will be dominant but if second wind stays like it is they will definetely be a top contender.

why dont you list what prot warriors got and not what they have on live?prot lost a stun,we now have to talent safeguard but at the cost of MSR.where is the gain?i see that as -1,lost a stun no gain right?any good prot war had a ranged silence on live.you keep calling 2nd wind far to strong/op'ed when its not.tell me who has better self heals,prot wars or blood dks?the biggest change "nerf" to warriors is going to be the rage change,and yes all it is is a nerf by blizz.rage has been fine since cata,the last time they changed rage.warriors on live no longer scale better then other classes rage has been normalized at the start of cata.changing it again is pointless,no rage from damage taken is the dumbest thing i have ever heard.

you all will see this butt fuck blizz just gave use when your all sitting in cc or being kited and dpsed, and you cant generate any rage because your out of melee range of your target.no rage for PH,no rage at all.its seem to me blizz wants warriors to use berserker stance for pvp again,maybe.

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 10:42 AM ----------

So whats the point now?

Due to some comments i tend to assume that warrior is as mobile as before yet to say the most mobile one under pressure, especially goblins but monks and dk have more self heals and in addition monks are more mobile than dks? Skill lvl will be higher for warriors due to the need of stancedancing once again and rage management.
So generally speaking monks will be the best overall package?

So we can say that warriors will not be excluded like paladins and dks right now (as russians mostly prefer feral tanks due to whatever reason) but warriors will be just one choice and not THE must have.

If you an skip rogues in your line up, due to the decision between prep and shs ( i dont want to play with a rogue without double smoke as their overall dmg is rather low and most rogues tend to ignore peeling and control ) you can stay with a warrior?! against caster set ups without a rogue i rank spellreflect very high.

what about paladin and druid?

good rbgs teams will only take the best tanks,and i think thats going to be monks.

[Schamane]

So lets start a reasonable comparison between the different fc classes and please try to avoid assumptions:

In the following we have a rough overview of basic mitigation and important data

Druid:
330% + Armor
20% + stamina
-25% magical Dmg
aktiv:
SD - 45% Dodge (6 Sekunden bei 9 Sekunden CD, kann ab 6,666 Rage/Sek. auf CD genutzt werden)
FR - Selfheal

Paladin:
-15% suffered Dmg overall
10% + Armor
15% + stamina
10% Block
2% Dodge
aktiv
SotR - -55% Schaden für 3 Sekunden, kostet 3 HP, kein CD, BoG
WoG - Selfheal

Krieger:
-15% suffered dmg overall
15% + stamina
10% armor
10% block
2% dodge
aktiv:
Shield Block - 2x6 Sekunden werden alle Angriffe geblockt, 60 rage, 15 Sekunden CD
Shield Barrier - 6 Sek. Absorb, mind. 20 rage

DK:
-10% suffered dmg overall
9% + 8% stamina
55% armor
2% dodge
aktiv:
DS - selfheal, 1 unholy 1 frost, kein cd, + shield mastery
Runetap - selfheal für 1 blut

Monk:
-25% suffered dmg
15% health points NOT stamina
5% Parry
30% dot dmg stagger
aktiv
BoK - 20% parry + 20% Stagger, 2 Chi, kein CD
Guard - Absorbschild, 2 Chi, 30 Sek. CD
PB – löscht stagger, 1 Chi

Sry for german parts; but to sum up, monks will be the fc class with the lowest health pool, vulnerable against meleecleave (leather) and he needs at least a small amount of time to build up chi for his active mitigation/cooldowns. Of course due to talents and skills you get more mitigation eg blackout kick shuffle, 20% + parry and stagger dmg, but against caster cleave line up, debuffed warsong stacks or stunned etc, these advantages diminish. I cannot evaluate monk selfheal properly as my account is deactivated right now, so i need your help at this point. Stagger via mastery is a definitive plus but you need time to ramp it up, dont you?

will it be still possible to kill or at least shut down a blood dk via disarm-silence-stun, so that you have a small period of time that allows burst dmg and the dk wont be able to use his selfheal skills?

Beside this you generally have also to consider the rbg without flags right now there are 2 flag:3 non flag bg, but in mop it will be 2:5. so i am not completely sure how the flagcarrier should behave in silvermine bg, and for example in the murderball bg there shouldnt be any rage disadvantages, as the warrior is able to shout-charge-shieldslam and thus has ~80 rage for all his cooldowns.

[Greedybeaver]

...
Beside this you generally have also to consider the rbg without flags right now there are 2 flag:3 non flag bg, but in mop it will be 2:5. so i am not completely sure how the flagcarrier should behave in silvermine bg, and for example in the murderball bg there shouldnt be any rage disadvantages, as the warrior is able to shout-charge-shieldslam and thus has ~80 rage for all his cooldowns.

Thanks for posting the numbers. I really think that Monks will be at a disadvantage because of leather. I think they will have virtually no damage spikes, but a greater consistant damage taken because of the way they are built.

Note: "Prot" can be interchanged with any other PvP tank in most of these instances, I just know Prot Warrior and Pally best.

As for the new BGs it will be interesting. Right now you can get to a fairly high rating without offspeccing to DPS on non-flag maps. Some maps (AB and Gilneas) Prot Warriors are very powerful guarding flags or interupting initial caps. A HolyPally/RestoShaman and a Prot Warrior at Blacksmith or Waterworks is usually enough to keep 4 or more people from capping those flags. EotS I'm kind of 50/50 about, a Prot Warrior holding a flag and waiting to cap until 3 bases are held seems like a situation where a healer or other DPS being mindful of not accidentally capping would be a better setup, with the Prot Warrior as dps for that map, that way there isn't as much "wasted pressure".

I think Prot (and other tanks) will still have a place in Silvermine. When you want to move a minecart (or slow it) you need bodies right by it, and who better to negate one of their players entirely than a tank. You still bring lots of CC, possibly more damage in MoP relative to right now, and on top of that you could just sit farther down a track slowing people trying to get to your minecart because it would take 2 or 3 people a decent amount of time to kill you even without a healer.

As far as Murderball, if my understanding is correct (please correct me if I am wrong, I have only read about the bg), you WANT a tank for this map. If the object of the game is to hold the ball the longest, and the longer an individual holds it the higher a debuff stacks, this seems to me like a perfect BG to bring a tank to. If you don't want to bring a tank many people would have to trade off holding the ball frequently, and every time you drop the ball to trade it off you risk it being picked up by the other team. The better alternative would be for a tank to hold the ball for many stacks, say 2 or 4 times as many stacks, handing off the ball to the second most resilient person on the team till the tanks debuff falls off, and then give it back to him. This greatly cuts down on the number of ball transfers, which just like on a flag map you want to limit as much as possible. On top of that while the tank holds the ball it would allow the healers to focus more on healing the entire team, than having the spam heals on someone who will take a lot more damage. Also, there is an area of the map that if you manage to hold the ball in that area it is worth more than the rest of the map, correct? All the more reason to have a resilient spec and class take the ball and sit in that area as much as possible.

I think tanks will be more widely used in BGs and RBGs in MoP for many reasons, even some as simple as the other classes will be able to compete with Prot Warriors for the spot. They won't dethrone them entirely, but it becomes more about the ability of the individual player, not the type of tank they chose to play.

Now if we could only get Prot Paladins a resource other than mana so that silences aren't so potent against them....

[Deleted]

I played FC for a while in S11 on my prot warrior, reached about 1700 rating I think when my guild decided they didn't want to do RBGs any more for some reason. It was pretty horrible tbh, as Korgoth said, you stand there basically waiting to get raped. You HOPE you get raped by a good number of people, to make it interesting and seem like you put up a challenge, but most of the time you just get soloed by a rogue or a mage.

On Live (yes it's an MOP thread) Warriors were the go-to FC for RBGs, due to really only 1 reason : heroic leap. Smoke bomb was that overpowered/necessary that if you didn't have heroic leap, you were screwed most of the time. You brought other tools (charge/silence/interrupts/fear etc) but primarily it was heroic leap.

Come MOP : smoke bomb is still in the game, so whilst that doesn't make druids or DKs or pallies useless, for me it leaves only the monk and warrior as the go-to FC. I think either will be very good, but I feel warriors may just come out on top, and as we know proper RBGs will only take the best. I think it's going to be another X-pac of DKs, druids and pallies getting benched as FC.

[Asatru]

I played FC for a while in S11 on my prot warrior, reached about 1700 rating I think when my guild decided they didn't want to do RBGs any more for some reason. It was pretty horrible tbh, as Korgoth said, you stand there basically waiting to get raped. You HOPE you get raped by a good number of people, to make it interesting and seem like you put up a challenge, but most of the time you just get soloed by a rogue or a mage.

On Live (yes it's an MOP thread) Warriors were the go-to FC for RBGs, due to really only 1 reason : heroic leap. Smoke bomb was that overpowered/necessary that if you didn't have heroic leap, you were screwed most of the time. You brought other tools (charge/silence/interrupts/fear etc) but primarily it was heroic leap.

Come MOP : smoke bomb is still in the game, so whilst that doesn't make druids or DKs or pallies useless, for me it leaves only the monk and warrior as the go-to FC. I think either will be very good, but I feel warriors may just come out on top, and as we know proper RBGs will only take the best. I think it's going to be another X-pac of DKs, druids and pallies getting benched as FC.

You got soloed by Rogues as a Prot War?

[Deleted]

You got soloed by Rogues as a Prot War?

any rogue worth anything can solo a prot warrior easily. add on 5 or 6 stacks and its not hard to die. go troll elsewhere please.

[meathead]

any rogue worth anything can solo a prot warrior easily. add on 5 or 6 stacks and its not hard to die. go troll elsewhere please.

thats why you have healers with the FC

[Asatru]

any rogue worth anything can solo a prot warrior easily. add on 5 or 6 stacks and its not hard to die. go troll elsewhere please.

I never got soloed by Rogues, ever.

[Deleted]

Monks will be FOTM flag carriers in MOP, until they get nerfed that is.

[Malgru]

Am I the only one who enjoys flag carrying? You're the deciding factor in some games. It's not a faceroll role. No one?

[Yvaelle]

Am I the only one who enjoys flag carrying? You're the deciding factor in some games. It's not a faceroll role. No one?

Our warrior FC loves it, prefers it to DPS on any of his toons (arms / lock / mage).