Do you think blizzard will react to the massive wish for a return to tbc style?

[voidillusion]

You read what you wanted to read. I said "TBC style difficulty" and not simply TBC designed expansion.

I understood totally what you said. I just don't agree. Dificulty or design wise it had nothing to do 1 with the other.

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 04:43 PM ----------

Yeah, let's make an even more time-consuming game, very good idea... oh wait.

At least you would spend less time flying around in Orgrimar drooling would you not?

[Buu]

You silly guys dismissing the wishes of midcore players... Don't you know that everything midcore wishes are automatically massive? It's in the nature of Being midcore: be always right, always better, always more deserving, and ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE.
GO, GO MIDCORE!!!!

[Anjerith]

I don't doubt that accessibility to more and more people has been a goal of wow since wotlk release.

The Goal of WoW has *always* been accessibility. There used to be degrees that they allowed this, they have moved toward allowing all players the CHANCE to participate.

[Deficineiron]

The Goal of WoW has *always* been accessibility. There used to be degrees that they allowed this, they have moved toward allowing all players the CHANCE to participate.

I should clarify - there was a sharp and clear change in accessibility from 2.4.x to wotlk. Anyone who actually played then could tell you this. Normal MGT was harder than all wotlk heroics for at-gear-level groups, though there were a couple of wotlk heroic bosses that required some knowledge of what they did.

[anothdae]

There is a huge difference between vocal minority and silent majority.

Wait, so the 10% sub loss last quarter... was that from the vocal minority or from the silent majority?

The real lesson here is that people have no idea what they really want in a game. Blizz has been listening way too much to the player base, and the result of that was cata. Just because you play a game doesnt mean that you know how to design or run a game.

[Stasso]

Hilarious. You ask me how I could possibly *know* why people are quitting and then try and say why they're quitting. I did actually read that report. It says that people LIKELY left for Diablo 3, it doesn't say that's for sure. Even Blizzard doesn't know or is sugar coating the losses. Personally I feel the main reason people quit was because they were bored. They were bored because they didn't have anything to do. No hardcore is going to argue with any casual that DS wasn't one of the biggest piles of shit Blizz has ever released. Pretty much everyone is bored as hell right now. The LACK OF CONTENT is the biggest problem. Hopefully they stop nerfing heroic raids so I'm not so damn bored. Let us also please not talk about D3. That game was by far and away the worst game I've ever played that was made by Blizzard. It hurts to talk about it ;_;.

But you admit you don't know and the point I was trying to make is that the battle.net accounts went up while the WoW subs went down. That doesn't tell me that people quit WoW cause they are bored, it tells me the quit WoW to play another Blizzard game. The reason for their leaving is up to debate but they didn't go "Fuck you Blizzard you ruin WoW so you don't get my money" they went "Sweet D3 is out I should cancel my WoW account so I don't spend more money."

[anothdae]

Yeah, let's make an even more time-consuming game, very good idea... oh wait.

Lets make a game that has something to do. Time consuming? I would MUCH rather actually be doing something time consuming that sitting in a city waiting for a Q to pop. Or more realistically, logging on once to twice a week to farm the same content over and over.

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 04:01 PM ----------

But you admit you don't know and the point I was trying to make is that the battle.net accounts went up while the WoW subs went down. That doesn't tell me that people quit WoW cause they are bored, it tells me the quit WoW to play another Blizzard game. The reason for their leaving is up to debate but they didn't go "Fuck you Blizzard you ruin WoW so you don't get my money" they went "Sweet D3 is out I should cancel my WoW account so I don't spend more money."

You honestly cant tell me that those people are still playing D3, can you? Yes, they quit for D3, but they stayed away for a different reason. People arent still playing D3, at least all the gamers that I know are completely done playing that game, and they left with a really bad taste in their mouths from blizzard. Will they come back for mop? Maybe, maybe not, it depends on gw2 to be honest.

[Anjerith]

I should clarify - there was a sharp and clear change in accessibility from 2.4.x to wotlk. Anyone who actually played then could tell you this. Normal MGT was harder than all wotlk heroics for at-gear-level groups, though there were a couple of wotlk heroic bosses that required some knowledge of what they did.

I wasn't quoting you so I have no clue how you assume I was talking to you. That's okay though.

I have been playing, uninterrupted, since before WoW came out. I also realize that there is a perception that tBC was harder "Just Because it was.".
The reality is that lack of mods that supplied enough information as well as general technical and systems limitations is what made a lot of tBC hard. Yes, SLabs was hard - but would it have been if we'd had more ability timers or knowledge of "Why this happens here instead of there".

[Stasso]

Lets say you have that job, and still have 5 hours of free time a day, if you are going to use this retarded argument at least take into play all the factors and don't just be an obnoxious ass.

People's time has value. One way to determine that value is to look on how much money they make per hour. It different values people are placing on time, time is money and people depending on their station will value how much time they put into a game. Do you think all the top 500 guilds have 5 hours of free time a day everyday to get those world first? Or do they manage their valuable free time they have? Why do I have to spend five hour doing something, that should be accomplished in a hour?

[anothdae]

Only partially. Yes, mods allow groups to see the really bad dps and kick them, but that doesnt happen that often. Dungeons used to be harder, period. Hunters had to kite with only a very few tools, and yes, that took skill and practice. You needed CC, and you needed to coordinate pulls. I could go on, but why? this has been done to death.

Dungeons were harder in tbc, and it wasnt all mods, not by a long shot.

[Deleted]

Seems a few tbc-loving people really hate the LFD system. Personally I don't know why?
Really I don't see how LFD system have anything to do with the difficulties of the dungeons.
Back in TBC when I was doing dungeons I hade to look for members in chat.
These days I just sign up for LFD. Getting 4 random people both ways :P
I mean, if you still want only people from your server, you can just look for it in chat.
And blaming LFD for all troll and bad people is just crazy.
Take a look around the internet, in the past few years hostile culture and aggressive atmosphere has been increasing everywhere.
Sure, Im not saying there wasn't any trolls before. But these days every single kid on the internet has to troll or be superior and browbeat others.
If you wanna blame something, blame Narcissism tbh.

[Grocalis]

Then why do you explain the biggest sub rise we have ever seen when HCs like Shattered Halls and Company were around. How can we possibly establish a direct conection between hard content and the few thousands that left early Cata.

Because, even with that difficulty, it was actually easier then most of the stuff in vanilla.

Vanilla didn't have daily quests, flying mounts, etc... We went from the logistically punishing 40-Man Raid or nothing mentality to a mix of 25-Man Raids as the new max followed by the new 10-Man Raids. We had new PVP gear added that was, for the most part, easy to gain through arenas, plus the badge system was introduced which both lead to the term "Welfare Epics". Even going back to attunements, none of the TBC raids had nearly as much punishing of attunements as the Onyxia chain or the resource heavy Naxxramas attunement. Funny that few realize that TBC started a lot of the ease that they continued into WOTLK.

The fact is the game rose to a point it just couldn't viably rise anymore during WOTLK, after even then gaining another million or two. Cataclysm made the mistake of attempting to go the opposite direction, making it harder rather then easier. People, whether older or newer players, grew accustomed to a certain mode of progression that was not as punishing as it use to be. When you attempt to bring back that punishment, more people will think "This wiping is bullshit screw this game" then "Wow it's so challenging now this is amazing".

[anothdae]

People's time has value. One way to determine that value is to look on how much money they make per hour. It different values people are placing on time, time is money and people depending on their station will value how much time they put into a game. Do you think all the top 500 guilds have 5 hours of free time a day everyday to get those world first? Or do they manage their valuable free time they have? Why do I have to spend five hour doing something, that should be accomplished in a hour?

The world first guild members all put in 5 hour+ days to earn their achievements, yes.

Is your argument that world firsts should be able to be accomplished with 1 hour a day? Or that being in a top 500 guild should? Because... no?

[Deleted]

The already are, just not in terms of difficulty, the raiding progression in the first tier is TBC style, first raid will be available after 1 week, the other 2 opening later requiring better item level. I just hope they continue the same path with the future tiers. Too much philosophy on these forums, SHEEESH.

[Grocalis]

You honestly cant tell me that those people are still playing D3, can you? Yes, they quit for D3, but they stayed away for a different reason. People arent still playing D3, at least all the gamers that I know are completely done playing that game, and they left with a really bad taste in their mouths from blizzard. Will they come back for mop? Maybe, maybe not, it depends on gw2 to be honest.

Really? People are not still playing D3? That is odd I was on a bit ago and notice it was pretty busy. Was that just my imagination?

Fact: Blizzard has the ability, at any time, to log and quantify how (and even which people) quit WoW in the last quarter but still log onto D3 every week. They can quantify that into information that shows many "possibly" left to focus on D3. Otherwise the account would be totally silent.

[RoutanClan]

Seeing all these negative posts about LFD and LFR make me want to troll people using LFD.

[Maxilian]

May i ask... what's the TBC style (yes i played in TBC) you guys want so much?

[thedingleberry]

Lol. Another [Insert Expansion] was the best post. You should check out the wowcrendor video on what if blizzard let fans design the game.

[Deficineiron]

I wasn't quoting you so I have no clue how you assume I was talking to you. That's okay though.

I have been playing, uninterrupted, since before WoW came out. I also realize that there is a perception that tBC was harder "Just Because it was.".
The reality is that lack of mods that supplied enough information as well as general technical and systems limitations is what made a lot of tBC hard. Yes, SLabs was hard - but would it have been if we'd had more ability timers or knowledge of "Why this happens here instead of there".

Please refer to post 633 - you did quote me. It even has my name next to words that I typed, quoted by you.

yes, slab would have been hard compared to wotlk content, because they didn't scale mob damage equally with player health pools from bc to wotlk. in fact, I think heroic bc mob dmg was close to what wotlk heroic mob dmg was, numerically. add that to the removal of threat as a major mechanic in heroics in wotlk, and of course it was easier.

in other words, threat as a fine-line factor and mob dmg as a % of player health pools influences difficulty greatly, and tbc and wotlk were quite different in both regards.

[anothdae]

Really? People are not still playing D3? That is odd I was on a bit ago and notice it was pretty busy. Was that just my imagination?

Fact: Blizzard has the ability, at any time, to log and quantify how (and even which people) quit WoW in the last quarter but still log onto D3 every week. They can quantify that into information that shows many "possibly" left to focus on D3. Otherwise the account would be totally silent.

Yes, and your observation that it was "pretty busy" somehow outweighs another observation that "a lot of people have stopped playing". : /

Yes, Blizzard has this ability. FACT: they dont release the numbers or the account activity, so you have no point.

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 04:22 PM ----------

May i ask... what's the TBC style (yes i played in TBC) you guys want so much?

difficulty.